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Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

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onespeedbiker
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Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#1 Post by onespeedbiker » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:36 pm

I switched out the XP loaded hdd in R50 to install Windows 98SE, for no particular reason; I loaded Win98se from an OEM ISO. The Thinkpad driver R50 database had nearly all the Win98 drivers I needed; and even when there has an issue, I just used a driver from the R40 or T40 driver list (audio and Ethernet drivers), with the exception of a program the loads the USB 2.0 drivers so the USB ports are functional. So far I only have 1 unknown in the Device Manager, and I have disabled the wifi card as the drivers don't appear to support WAP2. The one problem I have encountered is I have not been able to get the PCMCIA CF card working. I have installed a 512 mb compact flash card. When I plug in the PCMCIA it is immediately recognized and the drivers are found, however the moment the drivers are loaded it goes to a blue screen. I have tried a different and smaller (256mb) Compact Flash card with the same result. I have also tried both the Generic and R52 Win98 drivers with the same result. I have no problem using the card on any of my XP Thinkpads, including the same computer with the XP hard drive. I figure it might be an IRQ or interrupt issue, so I disabled the IR and Modem drivers, with no success. I'm just wondering if anyone else has run into this and could give me a solution. Thanks

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#2 Post by dr_st » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:10 am

Maybe Win98SE does not like the hotplug? Can you try booting with the card already installed?

Can you press ESC at the bluescreen and see if the machine is still functional? The bluescreen in Win98 can sometimes (rarely) be non-fatal.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#3 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:10 am

Thanks for the reply. First, whether I hot plug the card or plug it in prior to booting, it still goes through the process of finding the driver and it is the subsequent loading of the driver that causes the crash. Further, after the crash the best it will do is return to a frozen desktop with a few squares showing parts of the desktop and the rest blacked out. The fatal Exception number is OE 0028:C0031BOA. Interestingly enough, I tried disabling the modem to see if it was conflicting with the PCMCIA card. This did not stop the PCMCIA card crash, but when I re-enabled the modem, I got the same crash. I tried re-enabling the modem in safe mode and there was no crash when I booted up into normal mode. Unfortunately, unlike the modem, Win98 reloads the driver every time the PCMCIA card is present or inserted, but of course not in safe mode.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#4 Post by dr_st » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:50 am

Do you know which driver it tries to load?

Is this the driver you installed?
https://thinkpads.com/support/Thinkpad- ... sa04ww.txt
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#5 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:55 am

The driver is the ide/esdi hard disk controller MSHDC.inf

dr_st
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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#6 Post by dr_st » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:03 pm

There is some information here that suggests the unofficial service pack:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=59865

But I am very skeptical about it. Also the problem they report is about not being able to load the driver, whereas in your case it loads, but then complains.

Let me see if I can find some additional information. Since you've got nothing to lose, maybe try that CardBus driver:
https://thinkpads.com/support/Thinkpad- ... sa04ww.exe
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#7 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:55 pm

Thanks for responding. I have tried the unofficial sp3 and have used the thinkpad driver, in both cases everything is fine until it loads the mini ide/esdi hard disk controller driver ( MSHDC.inf) at the very end when the fatal crash occurs.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#8 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Well, I figured it out it seems the 2.0 usb Intel ICH4 family Enhanced Host Controller was causing the PCMCIA crashes; if I disable the USB2 Host Controller, the PCMCIA works. So I get to chose between PCMCIA or USB; usb wins hands down..
Last edited by onespeedbiker on Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#9 Post by dr_st » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:48 am

Maybe the two share an IRQ, and PCMCIA does not like IRQ sharing. I wonder if modifying the resources for one of them so that they are on separate IRQs would help...
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#10 Post by onespeedbiker » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:30 am

I will take a look at it, thanks. FYI, since the driver for the PCMCIA is finally loaded, it now instantly crashes upon boot if inserted cold, or crashes immediately when inserted hot.
dr_st wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:50 am
Is this the driver you installed?
https://thinkpads.com/support/Thinkpad- ... sa04ww.txt
BTW, yes, this is the driver I installed.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#11 Post by onespeedbiker » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 am

So, the PCMCIA and USB shared the same IRQ. I tried assigning different IRQs in the BIOS but it made no difference, it stilled crashed.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#12 Post by dr_st » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:08 pm

Yeah, well, I now recall that I experienced similar crap with the built-in CF slot on my X32, and that one was running WinXP, no less. So what can you expect from 98SE, eh? But I think that with 98SE you may actually stand a chance, because it allows you to set resources manually, sometimes. You can find some instructions here: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/un ... indows-98/
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#13 Post by onespeedbiker » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:37 am

The IRQ's seem to be controlled through the BIOs, I tried changing them around, with the PCMCIA having it's own IRQ but it didn't solve the problem. OTOH I found a system device that changes the IRQ assignment from the current default of Hardware to BIOS. I'm not sure what this actually does since changing the BIOS controlled the IRQs, but I figure I'd give it a try. FTF

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#14 Post by onespeedbiker » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 pm

I figured it out. Instead of using the NUSB 2.0 driver, I am using an A-DATA Windows 98 2.0 USB driver. While it does not support the "Intel 82801DB(ICH4) USB2.0 Enhanced Host Controller -24CD" (leaving a PCI Universal Serial Bus as an other device with a yellow question mark), the USB ports work with the PCMCIA card plugged in.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#15 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:17 am

This is starting to sound more like a malfunctioning southbridge chip than anything else. IIRC it's a known issue with the T40-42 series which uses the same southbridge chip as the R50.
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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#16 Post by onespeedbiker » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:17 am
This is starting to sound more like a malfunctioning southbridge chip than anything else. IIRC it's a known issue with the T40-42 series which uses the same southbridge chip as the R50.
I remember reading little about that Southbridge issue, but these issues only occur with Win98, while with XP running the PCMCIA USB play together with no problems. I figure it just an example how much better XP is dividing up it's resources that Win98. Still I would like to know if anyone has any success using both the NUSB 2.0 driver (supporting the "Intel 82801DB(ICH4) USB2.0 Enhanced Host Controller") and being able to use a PCMCIA CF card without crashing. Like I said, the USB ports and PCMCIA are now working together, but only because the USB drivers I found don't need the USB2.0 Enhanced Host Controller which is not being supported.

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Re: Compact Flash crashing r50 with Win98SE

#17 Post by dr_st » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:02 am

onespeedbiker wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 pm
I figured it out. Instead of using the NUSB 2.0 driver, I am using an A-DATA Windows 98 2.0 USB driver. While it does not support the "Intel 82801DB(ICH4) USB2.0 Enhanced Host Controller -24CD" (leaving a PCI Universal Serial Bus as an other device with a yellow question mark), the USB ports work with the PCMCIA card plugged in.
But they probably work at USB 1.1 speed. Or they may not work at all with some USB 2.0 devices, not sure.
axur-delmeria wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:17 am
This is starting to sound more like a malfunctioning southbridge chip than anything else.
To me it still sounds more like what I said above. But who knows...
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

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