G41 Project - Finished! 1 Pic

[brchan]

Have you changed the thermal paste on the processor?

[Shredder11]

Yes and I used the slightly more expensive Arctic MX-4 (I usually apply Akasa AK-450), plus I have applied paste to countless processors in recent years and achieved good results, even when others struggle with the same computers.

http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/mx-4.html

http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl= ... =AK-450-5G

[brchan]

http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc ... 9t6188.pdf

On page 149, it appears that different processors used different heatsinks. 91P8536 looks like it is for 3ghz cpus, although I am not sure about 26R8028.

[Shredder11]

I'm not sure what heatsink assembly I have as the sticker FRU is missing, but it does resemble 26R8028. On my other G40 I have a 91P8535 which is close but no cigar!

Actually once the heat issue is sorted out the G41 will perform nicely, easily having enough CPU power for what I intended it to do.

[ac12]

@Shredder

Your one pix of the output from the heat exchanger shows lint or paper piece in the fins.
You should try to clean out the dust and stuff from the fins, so the heat can get transferred to the air better. I used canned air, but I wish I could use a brush in those fins, as physical brushing cleans off dust better than just air pressure.

I replaced the Celeron chip in my G40 with a P4/2.8GHz cpu and did not change the heat exchanger, and it seems to do fine. But then again, I do not run anything that really puts a load on the CPU for any extended length of time.

I considered the PATA SSD, but the selection was small and the price for the 120GB and up were rather expensive. And the comments I read about KingSpec SSD were not so good, so I looked at mSATA SSD+adapter. I got the Aleratec adapter at a great price, less than $10 shipped (I'm not likely to find that deal again). The 120GB mSATA SSD cost me about $45. So I figure I came out price ahead. Although a 64GB SSD would have been about $10 cheaper and just fine in the T23. And yes there is a compatibility issue with the mSATA/IDE adapter. The Aleratec adapter that I used in my T23 was not even recognized by the BIOS of the Dell C400. I had to use a different adapter for the C400.

About AHCI, neither the T23 nor my Dell C400 supports that, but the SSDs seem to work just fine.
In fact now, if I want to quickly check the internet, I start up the C400 with the SSD, as it starts up faster than any other computer I have. I only significant wait time is waiting for the anti-virus program to do its startup update.

[Shredder11]

Thanks ac12 for the tips. When I upgraded the CPU I used a household vacuum cleaner to clean the fan out, while I held the fins from spinning to avoid burning out the fan motor. I notice that I can start up the G41 from cold and leave it for a couple of hours, with it idling at around 52°C / 125°F which is typical for a P4 500 series (mine is a 552). I remember back in 2004/5 choosing a P4 for a desktop upgrade, and I found that the 500 series CPU ran 10°C hotter than the 600 series (I got the 640 and later the 670). I tried to do a simple drive image with Acronis Backup & Recovery v11 and the temperature rose too high and the laptop cut out. So a few hours later I returned to have another go, this time successfully but the temp was still 80°C and dropped to 76°C afterwards. It seems that once it gets that high it cannot cool without being switched off for a long while.

What bad things did you read about the KingSpec drives? I know the performance is poor compared with the SATA equivalent, but would still be overkill for an old laptop. The other brand is ZHEINO which is slightly cheaper priced but possibly a tiny bit better.

[ac12]

I don't remember the details, but you can do a search for "Kingspec SSD."
I just remembered that after reading the many threads, I did not have a good feeling for that brand.
However, there are a few people who have apparently used it, successfully.
And looking on the net, there isn't much other choice besides Kingspec and to a lesser degree Zheino. The other brands seems to have moved to SATA SSDs.

I do agree a PATA SSD lets you not hassle with the mSATA to IDE adapter, and makes installation that much easier.

I have a 32GB Samsung mSATA SSD in my C400, and that seems to be adequate, for that computer, for what it does. I'm about 52% filled right now.
But I have a habbit of adding stuff and using up the drive space, and I would out grow a 32GB drive on my primary or secondary laptop. That is why I put a 120GB mSATA SSD into the T23. I was going to put a 64GB SSD in the T23, then I found a 120GB mSATA SSD at a price close to the 64GB mSATA SSDs, so I went up to 120GB. So, size depends on what you have on the computer and what you think you will add. My primary laptop (and computer) is a T61 with a 500GB HD, that is about 75% filled. And a 550GB SSD is not cheap, so I'm staying with the mechanical drive for the T61...for now.

[ac12]

OK, I admit I just SPOILED myself.
The SSDs that I put into my T23 and Dell C400 made a HUGE difference in the perceived speed of those old computers. Things are so much snappier now than they were with the mechanical drives. That makes the computers feel more usable, and maybe I'll get a couple/few more years out of them. Yes XP does not have TRIM, but it still responds so much faster.

Now I'm thinking of putting one into the G40, a 64 or 120GB SSD.

But I still have to do the cost/benefit analysis as the larger SSDs (500GB+) are still quite expensive for a hobby computer (I don't earn money with it). IOW, the 500G drive in my T61 is unlikely to be replaced by a SSD for quite a while. Well maybe Santa will bring me a 500GB SSD for Christmas.

[Shredder11]

Which SSD drives did you go for? Did you use the mSATA to IDE adapter solution or just a PATA SSD as I suggested? I'm waiting until later this month before I splash out on a couple of PATA SSD drives. I do not know how your laptops fare with HDD heat, but my G41 gets very hot around the HDD and can hurt my left hand if left on the palmrest for too long. So an SSD would most likely solve that as well. As for Win XP and the TRIM command, am I right in saying XP needs this doing manually every so often? Thankfully the drive migration software by Paragon that I use, handles all the main operating systems including XP.

Apart from the SSD, I really need to source a replacement heatsink assembly to cope with the P4 3.46 HT CPU upgrade I gave it. I wonder if one from a different Thinkpad model of that era will fit and work?

[ajkula66]

As for Win XP and the TRIM command, am I right in saying XP needs this doing manually every so often?

No.

You have to rely on SSD's internal garbage collection. There is no option of TRIM under XP. Not all SSDs have an option of running GC manually.

Generally speaking, PATA SSDs are sheer junk and I'd strongly advise staying away from them.

[ac12]

I used 2 different mSATA to IDE adapters:
#1 is an Aleratec adapter, in my T23 (it was not recognized by the BIOS in the C400)
#2 is a 'no name' Chinese adapter that uses the JMicron JM20330 chip, in my C400

I used 2 mSATA SSDs:
#1 is a Samsung 32GB, tested in my T23 and currently in my C400
#2 is a Visiontech 120GB, currently in my T23

Both are Win-XP installations. So I have to rely on the SSD to do it's own garbage cleaning.

I did a write up in these posts.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 39#p754630
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p756713

Check the parts manual for the matching heatsink for the fastest CPU in the G41. That should assure you of a fit. Medsec should be able to help you with that. I think he pushed his G41 to the max, or close to it.

[ac12]

@Shredder
Did you put a SSD into your G41?


@Medsec
How about you? Did you put a SSD into your G41?


I started considering moving the 120G SSD from my T23 to the G40. I've been running into times when the slower CPU on the T23 has been frustrating me, so I'm considering giving up on the T23, as just too old and slow. Rather frustrating, as it was a good computer that new software and the internet has made harder and harder to use.

[Shredder11]

No not yet as I was first hoping to find a suitable CPU heatsink, to keep the P4 3.46GHz SL7NC from constantly being 85°C+ all the time. It currently has a heatsink designed to cool what this lower end model had in it, which was a lowly Celeron.

[ac12]

Reviving an old thread for a RAM question, to see if I can squeeze a bit more performance out of the G40.
On the G40, the FSB runs at 400MHz. The PC2100 RAM is 266MHz.
Will the G40 benefit from going to a PC3200 which can run at 400MHz, to match the FSB speed? Or is there something in the G40 that will limit the max speed that it can get out of the RAM, making the PC3200 run down at 266MHz ?

[Shredder11]

That is a good question and I cannot think of anything that would limit the RAM speed, so if the RAM cost is agreeable vs the slower type you might as well buy some.

[Shredder11]

I'm still wondering about which heatsink assembly to use with the Pentium 4 3.46GHz SL7NC CPU in my G41, which originally came with a lower spec Celeron. Will the 91P8536 heatsink mentioned in the hardware maintenance manual be suitable? The description says, "FAN ASM -CPU 3 GHz" so is this the one I should be using with my 3.46GHz CPU?

[ajkula66]

Will the 91P8536 heatsink mentioned in the hardware maintenance manual be suitable? The description says, "FAN ASM -CPU 3 GHz" so is this the one I should be using with my 3.46GHz CPU?

Most likely, but some research will be required in order to ensure that the mounting points match etc.

Good luck.

[Shredder11]

Will the 91P8536 heatsink mentioned in the hardware maintenance manual be suitable? The description says, "FAN ASM -CPU 3 GHz" so is this the one I should be using with my 3.46GHz CPU?

Most likely, but some research will be required in order to ensure that the mounting points match etc.

Good luck.

There is a photo on the first page of this topic of the inside of my G41 which I took prior to installing the faster CPU http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 62#p756237




The heatsink I am thinking of getting is this, which is facing the other way up.

Just found a photo of this model facing the other way up.

[ajkula66]

Hmmm...that doesn't look like it's going to fit.

I'd try the old heatsink, monitor the temps and take it from there...

[Shredder11]

Yeah I am not so sure about the heat capabilities for CPUs over 3GHz, because on the G40 I think 3GHz was the limit. I've added another photo showing the same heatsink facing the right way up.

I also own two G40 machines with Pentium 4 CPUs in each; 2.8GHz and 2.6GHz and so I could maybe try the heatsink from that in the G41, because I assume the heat capability would be much closer to the one I was thinking about?

[ajkula66]

I also own two G40 machines with Pentium 4 CPUs in each; 2.8GHz and 2.6GHz and so I could maybe try the heatsink from that in the G41, because I assume the heat capability would be much closer to the one I was thinking about?

I *think* that the key issue is whether the heatsink was designed for a system with nVidia GPU or an Intel integrated one...G41 units with higher-end CPUs were usually equipped with nVidia card, at least in my experience...

[Shredder11]

Yesterday evening I decided to do the heatsink swap from one of my two G40 machines, over to my G41 with the high end P4 CPU. It all fit into place without any issues, although there is a smaller second fan that I could not connect and not exactly sure what that cools. Anyway the great news is I do not need to buy another heatsink, and the even better news is that it cools the Pentium 4 3.46GHz SL7NC CPU nicely.

As a quick test I had YouTube running a 1080p video in full screen mode, and unbeknown to me there was also a Windows Defender scan running at the same time. Even under this normally very heavy load the CPU temperature did not exceed 63°C and it returned to its idle temperature of 47°C very quickly. Before I swapped the heatsinks around, the highest temperature was well over 90°C+, so this is a fantastic result and the CPU now no longer seems to be throttling itself to cope. Everything is running much more quickly and smoothly now, and boot times are reduced too.


*** EDIT: It seems to be settling in better now and the idle temps are around 44°C and last night I had a 720p video that caused a constant 100% CPU load for over an hour, and the temperatures did not go over 53°C! Another thing I have noticed when compared with my two G40 models, is that unlike those machines this G41 now does not cause the fan to come on and off loudly; this G41 runs very quietly with the fan remaining at a steady rate even under load. One thing that confuses me is that the P4 2.8GHz in the G40 I took this heatsink from, usually idled in the 50°C+ and under load was around 70°C+.

This Thinkpad has gone from being my most overheated, to now being possibly the coolest running of all my nine Thinkpads!

[Shredder11]

@Shredder

Did you put a SSD into your G41?

Now that I have sorted the CPU heatsink issue, I am ready for the next upgrade. I wonder if anything exists to utilise the Mini-PCI slot with an SSD solution? Maybe there is an adapter to use miniPCI-e SSD cards?

[ajkula66]

Now that I have sorted the CPU heatsink issue, I am ready for the next upgrade. I wonder if anything exists to utilise the Mini-PCI slot with an SSD solution? Maybe there is an adapter to use miniPCI-e SSD cards?

You may want to read this thread first:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=115478

While the G4x series are not mentioned in it, it would be safe to presume that they might be affected as well. Proceed with caution...

[Shredder11]

I have just ordered these items from two UK suppliers, and other Thinkpad owners have reported success with this combination, so hopefully it will work for me too.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-s ... -ssd-drive

http://www.shop.bt.com/products/plextor ... ml?q=mSATA

[thinkpadcollection]

I wonder how hard to find a G41 to buy even here on our marketplace?

1. I wonder why the G40 heatsinks cannot plug in G41?

2. FYI: that PATA to mSATA adapter, the red circuit board with massive chromed frame is based on marvell bridge chipset which is a big plus.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

[Shredder11]

I wonder how hard to find a G41 to buy even here on our marketplace?

1. I wonder why the G40 heatsinks cannot plug in G41?

2. FYI: that PATA to mSATA adapter, the red circuit board with massive chromed frame is based on marvell bridge chipset which is a big plus.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

My G41 had an American keyboard which I have replaced with a UK one.

The heatsink in the G41 I replaced with one from a G40 (heatsink FRU: 91P8535), so they do fit or at least the one I have fits. The one mentioned in the user manual for the G41 says to use a FRU: 91P8536, which is only one digit different in the model number but looks 100% identical.

Yeah nice to know that about the mSATA adapter, and I believe the SSD drive is not a Sandforce type so that is also another plus point. Last year I nearly made the mistake of getting an Intel Sandforce based drive.

[thinkpadcollection]

older Sandisk, Liteon are known to have marvell controller on these mSATA SSDs.

Cheers, Thinkpadcollector

[Shredder11]

Reviving an old thread for a RAM question, to see if I can squeeze a bit more performance out of the G40.
On the G40, the FSB runs at 400MHz. The PC2100 RAM is 266MHz.
Will the G40 benefit from going to a PC3200 which can run at 400MHz, to match the FSB speed? Or is there something in the G40 that will limit the max speed that it can get out of the RAM, making the PC3200 run down at 266MHz ?

Yesterday night I ordered a 2GB (2x1GB) set of PC3200 400MHz RAM, so hopefully that will work when it arrives and also not be faulty which is luck of the draw with RAM on Ebay from China.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151471335165? ... EBIDX%3AIT

[thinkpadcollection]

Do you been aware of memories on ebay can be had for little more in branded makers? Like micron, elpida so on? I can get these micron 2GB 2x 1GB module matched for about 13 cdn made by micron with micron oem label on them too.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161748439445?_tr ... EBIDX%3AIT

Cheers, Thinkpadcollection