G40, any good?

[Medessec]

I'm pretty certain the only Pentium 4s fitted to the G41s were the 3.06GHz, the 3.2GHz, 3.33GHz, and the 3.46GHz. All of them support HT, and all of them are Socket 478. From what I recall, the 3.73 GHz P4s were Socket 775, the newer socket, so they wouldn't fit in the G41... even if they did, I imagine the bus speed of the CPU versus the bus speed supported by the mobo-that would equal bricked mobo big time. The 3.73 GHz P4s are around-but they are quite rare.

I hope that 2.8GHz in your G40 really gives it that extra go-go you're looking for, I'm pretty certain it will anyways if you had a Celeron in it before.

To give you an idea of the Performance comparison-i've went ahead and ran PerformanceTest 6.1 on a G40 with a 2.8GHz, a G41 with a 3.06GHz, and my epic G41 (that I just finished yesterday!) with the 3.46GHz.

G40 2.8GHz - Overall score: 245.7, CPU score: 380.9
G41 3.06GHz - Overall score: 269.2, CPU score: 476.3
G41 3.46GHz - Overall score: 313.4, CPU score: 514.4

Unfortunately I don't have any Celeron-based machines in at the moment to test... but you can see that your G40 will be a bit comparable to the G41s in raw power, the overall scores are lower due to the video cards, and Hard Drives(I put 4200RPMs in my G-series, because they're quiet, cool and reliable). But also notable is that-although my epic 3.46GHz G41 is more powerful than the 3.06 GHz, it's only marginally more powerful. The higher overall score is mostly due to the NVIDIA video card.

[ac12]

w the overhead of Norton AV, these are my numbers w Performance Test v6.1
G40 2.2GHz Celeron, Overall 200.1, CPU 265.8

I am looking forward to a fair (not dramatic) increase in performance when I upgrade the CPU to the 2.8GHz P4.

[Medessec]

Sounds like an accurate score. Really good to compare to mine.

It'll be some extra power you can definitely take advantage of to extend your G40's life. Plus, the added cache and other features of the P4 can make multitasking, media decoding, and modern applications all a bit smoother, so it's definitely worth it in my opinion, even if you can't track down a 3.0GHz Northwood.

I'm thinking of buying an extra 3.46GHz Prescott, because I have a few leftover parts from my G41 project, and I think I can make another low-cost epic G41, probably to sell. I'll have to take some pictures of my current G41 project finished and post them on the G41 project topic... I managed to find a mint-condition palmrest, with the Windows XP and Pentium 4 stickers looking brand new, and it looks really good.

[ac12]

I got the 2.8GHz P4 installed in my G40.
I had a little trouble figuring out the disassembly, the HMM does not have "hints."
But it is in, back together and running.

Performance is up, not a lot, but clearly better than before when surfing web sites.
2.2 Celeron, overall=200.1, CPU=265.8, mem=260.1, 2d=119.8, 3D=34.3
2.8 P4, overall = 269.0, CPU=369.3, mem=359.6, 2D=258.8, 3D=45.4
I ran PT 2x and the 2nd time the numbers went up.
I'm happy

I think I should take the Celeron sticker off the G40 now

[Medessec]

Oh wow-I totally overlooked you'd get a much better RAM score, because you have 2GB. The P4 can make much better use of that than the Celeron, so you'll get a jump there too.

G40s aren't too hard to take apart, you don't even have to take the screen off to get to the CPU. If it was your first time digging in as far as the CPU-then it might've been a bit of a task. But it's good you got it back together.

I do say this upgrade of yours will be quite worthwile!

[ac12]

Very oddly, now TPFC does not work.
w the Celeron, I was not able to manually control the fan, but I could read the CPU temp.
Now the CPU temp is not valid, it reads 42c with and w/o the fan running. So it is getting a false signal or not reading the CPU correctly.

[Medessec]

Odd... I don't use TPFC much, I use SpeedFan, since it's on my desktops so it's more convenient. You can try SpeedFan to see if you can pick up the temp that way. If you can, it might be an issue with TPFC in reading the CPU in that config...

[ac12]

I installed SpeedFan
I get a temp of 55C, and it changes, so it is able to read the temp of the CPU.
But speedfan can't find the fan controller to control the fan, so I'll have to rely on the BIOS/OS control of the fan.

[Medessec]

SpeedFan usually can't pick up the fan controller on laptops. At the rare occasion when the laptop's auto fan controller is insufficient, I use TPFC.

Good that SpeedFan works though... that's weird TPFC doesn't pick up the P4 properly. Maybe it has something to do with TPFC picking up info in the BIOS, and maybe... reading your G41 as a Celeron machine, but then finding a P4 in the 478 socket. And then going, "wut. "

[ac12]

Medessec
My upgraded G40 has become pleasant to use to surf the net, I don't get the lag and stutters that I used to get. Thanks for the help and encouragement.

[Medessec]

No problem man! Glad it worked out for you.

[Norway Pad]

I've seen two different heatsink designs out of all the G40/41s I've owned... There's the one that looks mostly gray/silver, with the one copper strip. I've found it in all the Celeron-based G40s, and all G41s. The other one is a beefier, copper-plated one, I've only found it in the higher-end G40s, and I haven't found it in any G41s. I don't know which one transfers more heat, but the copper-plated one has a bigger main fan and is a bit heavier, so I imagine that does. And my 2.8GHz G40s that have this heatsink run perfectly fine, so I'd imagine if you want to run a 3GHz, that heatsink is the one you want. I've found them on ebay too.

The silvery one:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/IBM-Thinkpad-G40 ... ~60_35.JPG

The copper one:
http://www.lotbattery.com/images/g40-fan.jpg

Hi. Sorry for bringing up an old thread. I am looking into upgrading a G40 that I recently got my hands on. The 3.0Ghz P4 SL74Q CPU should be a verified and safe choice here, but I am a little confused about the heatsinks/fans. The HMM do specify a special heatsink for the 3.0Ghz. As mine is currently a 2.4Ghz, I assume I have the lower end heatsink, and that it needs to be changed. But I wonder if either the HMM or something else is mixed up here. When I do a search for the part number for the regular "Fan ASM" (91P8535) on eBay I find auctions with the copper colored one, and when I search for the part number for "Fan ASM -CPU 3 GHz" (91P8536), I get the silver colored one.

Can you guys verify that the copper one is the one that works with the 3.0Ghz, and that a 3.0Ghz doesn't overheat with this one? To further verify, I will also open my G40 up during the next days to see which one I really have. If I have the silvery one now, combined with a verification from you that the copper one is the one that works with the 3.0Ghz, I will have to assume the HMM has these two part numbers mixed up, and the 91P8335 is the 3.0Ghz one.

[ac12]

Bjorn
My G40 had the Celeron CPU and it had the copper heatsink. Stupidly, I did not think to write down the part number of the heatsink in my G40 when I upgraded the CPU to the 2.8GHz P4. I would think that the copper heatsink would be for the 3GHz CPU, as I think copper is a better conductor of heat than aluminum. But there may be design differences. You are right is it confusing.

When I upgraded the CPU, I was going to go max with the 3.0GHz CPU. But, the 3.0GHz CPU was MUCH more expensive than a 2.8GHz CPU ($75 vs $12), and I did not want to spend more $ for a new heatsink. And like you it was confusing trying to figure out which heatsink was the correct heatsink for the 3.0GHz CPU. I decided that the speed difference from 2.8 to 3.0GHz was not worth the cost and effort, and settled for the 2.8GHz CPU. So far no regrets with that decision.

In general use, the CPU temp of my 2.8GHz G40 will be in the low-mid 50sC. I'm running a MS update now, with the CPU at or near 100%, and it has not hit 60C yet. So the heatsink is working well for the 2.8GHz CPU.

Whichever you use, install a CPU temp monitor to keep an eye on the CPU temp. I installed "SpeedFan" on my G40 to read the CPU temp. I tried TPFanControl but it was not able to control the fan.

BTW, since you are maxing the CPU, you should also max out the RAM at 2GB. XP does not work well for me with only 1GB. I tend to open multiple aps and browser windows, and that uses up RAM. And certain aps (like iTunes) use RAM even when you are not using them. I have a T23 with 1GB of RAM and with no applications running, I'm down at 500MB. The extra 1GB gives me more "buffer" before the system has to swap memory in the page file, or I have to delete programs.

[Norway Pad]

Thanks for the input.

I got so curious on this, that I sat down this evening and removed the keyboard from the G40. I assumed that would allow me to see enough of the heatsink to be able to identify it. And I was right. My 2.4Ghz G40 has the all-copper colored heatsink. To make it even better; IBM had been nice enough to put a sticker on it that says FRU 91P8535.

So even though the logical choice would be to use the all-copper heatsink for the hottest CPU, it now seems as the silver colored one is the one designed for the hotter 3.0Ghz CPU. I guess there are some differences there, maybe fan speed or something, that are not obvious just by looking at them.

Like I said earlier, I found a silvery one on eBay. So I might buy this one in order to have the correct one, and to compare it to the copper one to see the differences. That makes this project rocket a little cost-wise, but we are anyway not talking big money here. My other option could be to stick with the current heatsink and go the 2.8 way as you did, ac12. Good input from you, I will consider it a little bit before I purchase a CPU and a potential heatsink.

[ac12]

Part of the reason for limiting my $ spend on the G40, is the computer itself is limited anyway. No video drivers for Win7 and max RAM = 2GB, so the G40 is stuck at XP.

I felt that the $75-100 cost of the 3.0GHz CPU and $25-50 cost of the heatsink vs $15 for the 2.8GHz CPU was not worth the small 7% performance increase over the 2.8GHz CPU. The 2.8GHz P4 CPU was already a big performance increase on the 2.2GHz Celeron CPU that I had. So, the 2.8GHz CPU was "good enough" for me.

Careful on eBay. I've seen posts where the copper heatsink (in the picture) had the pn of the aluminum heatsink (in the text of the posting), and visa versa, so which was it???? The HMM treats the heatskinks differently, but does not specify the PN of the heatsink for the 3.0GHz CPU (drat). The heatsink confusion/frustration was one of the factors that lead me to give up on the 3.0GHz CPU.

[Norway Pad]

I decided to go for the 2.8Ghz as well, so purchased one on eBay. I have so many laptops that takes care of daily tasks, so top performance isn't a big deal for the G40. So instead of spending $90 on a 3.0Ghz and heatsink, I spent $11 on a 2.8Ghz. The purpose of the G40 will probably be to run AutoCad, which ran acceptably even on my T30 with a 1.8Ghz P4. Instead I'll put these dollars into a SSD for my other T60, I think that's a better use of them.

[ruixue]

G40 is the Intel Celeron 2.6GHz processor. This is fairly high speed for a budget notebook computer, but it also means that it will draw a bit more power than mobile design CPUs. Matched to this is 256MB of PC2100 DDR memory that should run Windows XP without many problems unless a lot of multitasking is done.
<removed link to iPad case>
Intel Celeron 2.6GHz Processor
256MB PC2100 DDR Memory
30GB 4,200rpm Hard Drive
24x CD-RW/DVD Combo Optical Drive
14.1" XGA LCD and Intel Extreme Integrated Graphics with 64MB Shared Memory
SoundMAX AC'97 Audio

Admin edit: User deactivated for spamming

[ac12]

ruixue
You need MORE than 256MB of RAM for XP. My Dell laptop was a slug with 384MB and almost unusable.
IMHO the bare minimum for XP is 512MB, adequate is 1GB, better 2GB.
Running XP with less than 1GB of RAM was an exercise in frustration. I had to delete a bunch of resident programs and change anti-virus sw to give me enough usable RAM to run my applications, and even then I sometimes would hit 0 available memory and the computer would have to use the swap file.

[Norway Pad]

I second that. I tried to run one of my T30s with XP and 256MB RAM back in the days, but particularly the installation of SP3 seemed to do quite a difference in memory usage, and it became almost unusable for anything. An upgrade to 512MB fixed the issue, but 1GB seems to be the best compromise.

[Norway Pad]

The 2.8Ghz CPU seemed to give a noticeable increase in speed over the 2.4Ghz one. No problems with the heat (So far), so I think I am good. The full RAM isn't in place yet though, as I ran into issues with a seller on eBay that sold me ECC RAM. That did of course not work..

I have not tried a G40 with the 3.0Ghz, so I don't know what kind of "experienced" processing power I could theoretically have been looking into compared to the 2.8. But from what I have seen so far, I am glad I listened to the advices here and did not go ahead and buy the 3.0Ghz and the associated heat sink.

[Medessec]

Glad it's working out for you so far. ECC RAM for a laptop...? I didn't even know that existed. Unless he sent you desktop ECC RAM.

Indeed-I think that in terms of power to cost, the 3.0 GHz Northwood P4 isn't worth it. The 2.8 GHz is pretty much there, and miles ahead of any Celeron. It is a disappointment it's not the same situation as with the G41, I was able to find the 3.46 GHz Prescott P4(the absolute best G41 processor) for $30. I guess the market for those processors is bigger, or they're rarer.

[Norway Pad]

For the ECC RAM, I was surprised too. I don't know what this module was meant for, but it was a PC2700 200-pin SODIMM module. Listed as G40 compatible, but it was obviously not. I just installed it without examining it closer, but the G40 only gave beeps at bootup, and then I noticed its label said ECC. Luckily I got it returned, so we'll see what comes back.

[Medessec]

PC2700 is the sort you're supposed to get for G40s... hmm. I guess the fact that it was ECC did it. Odd.

[Shredder11]

I recently bought a 99.9% mint condition G40 2388-4SG for £35 ($54 USD) from Ebay, which came with a Pentium 4 2.8GHz (Northwood single core, no HyperThreading) with the full copper heatsink assembly; 1GB PC2100 RAM; 40GB 4200rpm PATA drive; 15" 1024x768 screen; integrated GPU; no WiFi; 100Mbit LAN; CD/RW / DVD-ROM and Floppy Disk drive. Everything feels so new that I suspect it has barely been used in its entire life since 2003/4. The keyboard is lovely to use with a very nice key action and travel; the floppy drive purrs away with the sound of a brand new one, likewise the CD/RW / DVD-ROM. The screen hinges feel utterly brand new. Strangely this exact model (2388-4SG) does not seem to exist in any of the documentation online, and the only reference to be found is when you enter the model number into the Lenovo search box for drivers etc. However the various online pdf files of archived models and specs from 2000 to 2005, feature all the other G40 models but not mine!

I was not expecting this laptop to be as good a performer as it is! With a fresh Win XP Pro SP3 install and a few installed apps it boots in 25 seconds and everything feels as snappy and quick as my X60s notebook! It plays 720p video with no bother and renders web pages quickly and responsively. Screen quality is on a par or slightly better than my X60 too. The CPU fan rarely comes on and only very briefly as temps are usually in the 40+ celcius, rising to 60-ish under heavy sustained load.

I bought this laptop for the purpose of being a retro emulation machine, to run 1980s 8 / 16-bit home micro emulators and games like the Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC, Commodore 64 and Atari ST etc. This was one of the last laptops to have a proper onboard Floppy drive, which is essential for me and using 720KB DSDD and HD disks to read and write disk images from. I now realise this laptop is capable of FAR more than I originally thought!

I plan on upgrading the hard drive to a 7200rpm model and also the RAM to 2GB PC2700. Would it be a good or bad idea to buy a 2GB kit of RAM from one of the Chinese Ebay sellers, who state "This part may be manufactured by Samsung,Micron,hynix,infineon or others depending on availability"?

Anyway I am one very happy new owner of a G40 Thinkpad!

[Medessec]

If you're going to be using Windows XP with old software, it's not extremely critical that you get anymore than 1GB of RAM. But if you feel like you'll need it, then it really shouldn't matter for the G40 what brand you get exactly, it won't make a huge difference. If you do buy ebay though-I'd recommend testing whatever RAM you get, to make sure that the RAM you got is 100% working.

Even the G40s are outstanding performers-it's mostly owed to the beefy full-on Pentium 4s that are clocked very high, compared to the Pentium 4-Ms and Pentium Ms they were putting in the T-series and other Thinkpads at the time. Screen quality really depends... it took me forever to track down a really nice and bright 15" SXGA+ screen for my G41 that I put together. A lot of XGA screens and 14" screens you find on G40s and earlier G41s swimming around for $20-40 are dimming really badly, or have lines on them. And I would count how many busted G-series screens I have in boxes, but there's too many, and i'm too lazy. I guess it's really awesome that you got a nice one.

G40/41s are incredibly good machines for old software/floppies. I use my Intel-graphics G41 all the time to transfer files onto floppies for my vintage Thinkpads. I don't play a lot of DOS games or old PC games on my G-series... that's what my 770X is for. But the Intel graphics, even on the G41, really limits what you could do in the way of modern software. You can't play too much past 2D or Flash games from today.

Glad it's worked out for you though. I'm quite a fan of the G-series.

[pianowizard]

I'm quite a fan of the G-series.

Same here. The G40 and G41 probably remain the best laptops that Acer has ever produced. (Recall that they were actually made by Acer, not IBM.)

[Shredder11]

I would like to know more about why and how Acer became involved, because it bears none of the hallmarks of any Acer product; it is very solidly built and is to all intents and purposes an IBM made to IBM standards, or am I missing something here?

[ajkula66]

IBM outsorced a lot of work - mostly on inexpensive laptops - to Acer back in the day. I series, R3x/R4x and G4x/G50 were all built by them...

[Medessec]

Makes total sense. I guess IBM never had a knack for a laptop design filled with compromise, so they had to go to someone who was seasoned on the subject.

The R3x/R4x I'm not so much a fan of... all the ones I've gotten in have some sort of unsolvable problem. I still have that R31 that freezes up 15 minutes after booting for no apparent reason.

But the G-series is absolutely fantastic. It sort of... wears the Thinkpad look, but in a crazy, absurd way. It's bulkier, has the sloping lines and the gargantuan air-vents on the back. It's the sort of laptop I'm certain Batman would be seen with. On top of the looks, it's got the muscular Pentium 4, and it's a three-spindle machine.

Acer's history of build quality is written all over this machine though... The lid is made out of hard, cheap, chunky plastic, and not the tuxedo you see on T-series. You've got a single, tinny speaker inside the screen next to the inverter, and where you'd normally see the grooved panels on the sides of the screen on T-series(to give the Wi-Fi antennas better reception), you have these white lines etched there. I guess you could say it's a "working-class" Thinkpad?

The G40 and G41 probably remain the best laptops that Acer has ever produced.

That is SO true. The G-series may be odd compared to the other Thinkpads at the time, but it still could slide in just fine as a "proper Thinkpad". And considering Acer built them, that's kinda cool.

[Shredder11]

Yes I agree about the quality of the lid cover and the speaker, but the other plastic areas seem rugged enough and the palm-rest does not flex. I quite like the chunky bulky nature of this laptop, not sure why but I do although the design of the lid and base where they meet is quite ugly. As far as comparisons goe I would say the G40 is the industrial factory and the T series are the luxury affluent designer outlet!