R52 & SSD - (in)compatible?

[tim.k]

Hi,

I have a R52 (1846-4CG), Bios 1.29, embedded controller 1.06. To speed things up, I bought a SSD (OWC Mercury Legacy Pro 90GB) but for some reason, the R52 doesn't turn on as soon as the SSD is installed. I did a bios reset and a hardware reset before I installed the SSD - this didn't help, as soon as the SSD is installed, the R52 is completely dead, no beep, no light, no nothing.

When I connect the SSD externally via USB it is recognised in Windows 7 and seems to work perfectly fine.

Does anybody know if this is a general R52 problem, do these models in general have problems running SSDs?

Thanks for your help!

Tim

[RealBlackStuff]

You know that HDs and SSDs in a T4x/R5x go in upside down (label to the table), and that you should use the HD caddy and 4 screws?

[tim.k]

yes I do . I installed the SSD in exactly the same manner as the standard HDD, using the caddy and the screws...

[RealBlackStuff]

There's a forum post about this SSD: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98842

Is that a new or used SSD?
It may be faulty, perhaps you can exchange it under warranty?
Is there a jumper that needs to be set or removed?

[tim.k]

thanks for the link, yes, I've already seen that post - with the t-series things seem to work fine.

I have the feeling that my R52 doesn't "accept" SSDs, a SuperTalent PATA-SSD wasn't detected either. I bought the SuperTalent SSD before I got the OWC SSD, the SuperTalent SSD wasn't detected properly in the bios so I returned it because I thought the SSD was damaged; but now, as the OWC model isn't working either, I'm starting to think that the problem is the R52 and not the SSD...

the OWC SSD is new and when I connect it externally via USB it is detected in Windows7 and seems to be working fine (haven't partioned it yet, though). according to owc customer service, the drive is shipped preset to IDE master, there is no jumper included

[RealBlackStuff]

I have had plenty T43 and R52 go through my hands, but I don't have any PATA SSD.
I have applied the SATA mod numerous times, after which any SATA HD or SATA SSD works fine.
There are no reasons why it shouldn't work.
Does a rotating HD boot in your R52?

[tim.k]

yes, the standard PATA HDD works perfectly fine, I'm using the R52 with HDD this very moment . it's just completely dead as soon as the SSD is installed...

[Neil]

That is really strange behavior! Kind of seems like an electrical short in the power circuit. Is there anything, part of the HDD caddy maybe, that can make contact with one or more of the HDD pins? It's just a long shot guess, but maybe something is shorting a power rail to ground.

[automobus]

edit: 2014-02-06 This post contains solid crap misinformation.

Do you realise, OWC Mercury Legacy Pro SSD is like a pre-assembled, metal tomatenfisch kit? It is their Mercury Aura Pro 1.8-inch SATA drive plus bridge board, in a 2.5-size housing. The blue case with real screw holes is nicer than plastic, that is true, but I do not like what is inside: JMicron JM20330. I do not care how many people are happy with their JMicron bridges: I do not trust them. In my loudmouth opinion, several JMicron ICs are crap. I cannot prove you have a buggy JMicron chip, I do not have one of those SSD to open-up. My claim is based on only two sources.
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 37#p162937 JDW at 68kMLA
http://www.presence-pc.com/tests/ssd-ide-23380/2/ Tom's Hardware France

JDW found OWC Mercury Legacy Pro incompatible with his PowerBook.

edit: Maybe I am being too harsh, to call JM20330 crap. I read more people's experiences with ATA bridges, and I wonder if a perfect bridge is impossible.

edit: I made a mistake in this post, I generated misinformation: Tom's Hardware France has pictured JMH330, not old JM20330. I guess my thoughts were mixed-up. Attention all readers: the subject of SATA bridge for 2.5-inch PATA host systems is being discussed now in 2014, find it over in the T40 conference.
New SSD opt. for T4x : mSATA-to-IDE adapter ST663FD9" http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112081

edit: 2014-02-06 This post contains solid crap misinformation. Do not trust any of it. I am a loudmouth. I never used a JMicron ATA-ATA bridge. I did use other, poor, JMicron products, but NOT ATA-ATA bridge. I am in no position to denigrate any of: JM20330, JMH330, JMD330. Connecting arbitrary ATA bridges together seems to be not a recipe for success.

[RealBlackStuff]

The plot was thickening, but has now become clear!
You have an utterly impossible concoction there!

T43/R52 motherboard with SATA <--> SATA-to-IDE-Converter <--> IDE connector <--> IDE-to-SATA-Converter <--> SATA drive
What you need is a SATA-mod AND a proper SATA drive (without built-in converter).
After that your machine would look like this:
T43/R52 motherboard with SATA <--> SATA connector <--> SATA drive

Both those converters are fighting one another!
Stick that SSD in a T40/T41/T42 and it will work fine, because there would be only one converter!
T40/1/2 motherboard with IDE <--> IDE connector <--> IDE-to-SATA-Converter <--> SATA drive

[tim.k]

thanks a lot for your posts! So apparently the OWC and a R52 are an impossible connection... luckily, OWC offered a refund for the drive so I guess I'll just send it back to them...
I live in Germany, unfortunately I haven't found anybody who offers sata-mods for R52s here. As I probably can't do this myself, getting a faster IDE HDD seems to be the only option left... :-/

[twistero]

You could use a true IDE SSD instead of a (SATA SSD + SATA-PATA bridge) SSD like the OWC.

A good true IDE SSD controller chip is EastWho EWS720. I have used a EWS720-based SSD in a X41t with no problem; X41t has an internal PATA-SATA bridge just like R52.

[RealBlackStuff]

And like automobus already posted: JMicron controllers are crap,
so avoid any SSD (IDE or SATA) with JMicron controller like the devil avoids Holy Water!

I live in Germany, unfortunately I haven't found anybody who offers sata-mods for R52s here.

Contact forum member raceboy, he lives in Estonia/Estland, near enough for cheap shipping.
He may be able to help you there.

[Tasurinchi]

I live in Germany, unfortunately I haven't found anybody who offers sata-mods for R52s here

Why don't register in the German Thinkpad Forum? I've seen many users there have done this mod too

[tim.k]

thanks again for your posts!

@Tasurinchi: I've done that, posted the same thing as here and also asked for somebody who does sata-mods - no reply so far... do you have a particular contact?
@RealBlackStuff: thanks for the tip... (shipping to Estonia isn't that cheap, though...)
@twistero: would you recommend any particular PATA-SSD with an EastWho EWS720 controller?

[Tasurinchi]

I don't have a particular contact, but you could check these links and see who's done it.

http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/63974- ... t=t43+sata
http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/143010 ... t=t43+sata
http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/142765 ... t=t43+sata

The forum also organize meetings in different parts of Germany, you may go to one of those closer to your place.

[twistero]

IDE SSDs are few and far in between to begin with, and manufactures often don't like to divulge details about controller used.

The SSD I used in X41t was a Super Talent DuraDrive ZT2 1.8 inch ZIF drive. You can see a list of 1.8 inch ZIF SSDs here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-s ... lable.html
They do list the controllers whenever known, and quite a few of them are EWS720. Unfortunately, no one has made a similar list for 2.5 inch IDE drives.
While you can certainly use a 1.8 inch ZIF drive + adapter in a 2.5 inch IDE drive bay, it's a messy solution.


Note that the following are educated guesses which are not necessarily correct.

The Super Talent DuraDrive ET2 line of 2.5' IDE drives quote the same specs (sequential read/write) as the DuraDrive ZT2 1.8' drives that are EWS720, while the MasterDrive GF line of 1.8' drives that uses a different controller quote different specs. Therefore I believe DuraDrive ET2 also uses EWS720.

The Renice E7 series of 2.5' drives quote the same specs as their K3E series of 1.8' drives that are EWS720, and the product page explicitly mentions that it uses a "native PATA controller". Therefore I believe the E7 uses EWS720 as well.

A quick Google search indicates that Wintec has a EWS720 line of 2.5' IDE SSDs. However, it's listed as an OEM product and may not be easily purchasable.

[tim.k]

@Tasurinchi: thanks a lot for these links! So I'll see if I maybe find sb who can do this

@twistero: thanks for the information! I've found a shop in Germany which sells the Renice SSDs, the product information says that it has the EastWho 720 Controller (see: http://shop.maxxxware.de/Solid_State_Dr ... E_2_5.html).
Before I got the OWC CCD I also tried a super talent dura drive - which at first was detected in the R52's bios, but "disappeared" and was never seen (detected) again. the same thing happened with the replacement drive that I received, their customer service told me that the bios of some of these SSDs is corrupted and therefore, they are not detected properly. In the end I decided not to go for super talent as they seem to outsource the "final testing" to the customer...