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R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

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charlienyc
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R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#1 Post by charlienyc » Thu May 28, 2015 12:59 pm

hi,
my R61 8932CTO running Win7/32 has an unusually slow file transfer rate when an external drive is connected using a PCMCIA card, either eSATA or Firewire 400. i've used the computer in this configuration quite often in the past, yet have never run into this problem before. the one thing that's possibly different is that i have the machine connected to a dock. i am using the laptop's PCMCIA slot though. what would cause this? i try to run ThinkVantage and Windows updates pretty frequently. did Windows updates cause this? old BIOS?
cheers,
-charlie
-charlie-
P51 20HHCTO | i7-7700HQ 3.8GHz | 8GB | 256 SSD + 1 TB HD | Win10/64 | 15.6 IPS M-T
R61 8932-CTO | T8100 2.1GHz | 4GB | 250 GB 5400 | Win7/32 | 15.4" WSXGA+
A31 2653-Q5U | P4M 2.0GHz | 1GB | 120GB 5400 | XP Pro | 15" SXGA+

precip9
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Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#2 Post by precip9 » Thu May 28, 2015 2:05 pm

I am surprised that you ever had a different experience.

There is a problem that seems common to the Windows drivers for all the chipsets of external ESATA cards, limiting the bandwidth to a fraction of the slot capacity.

For these reasons, I abandoned the use of ESATA slot for peripheral expansion. USB 2.0 is actually much faster in practice.
W500x3 with T9900, , T400 highnit 1280x800 with P9600, X61sx3, X61Tx3.

charlienyc
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Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: chicago

Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#3 Post by charlienyc » Thu May 28, 2015 2:17 pm

thanks for your message. for the work i'm doing, i need synchronous data transfer. Firewire and eSATA are synchronous whereas USB is asynchronous. i did try daisy-chaining a hard drive through a firewire audio interface. this was connected to the on-board 4-pin 1394 port and worked fine. that was an interim solution though, as interfaces and drives should be on different buses.
-charlie-
P51 20HHCTO | i7-7700HQ 3.8GHz | 8GB | 256 SSD + 1 TB HD | Win10/64 | 15.6 IPS M-T
R61 8932-CTO | T8100 2.1GHz | 4GB | 250 GB 5400 | Win7/32 | 15.4" WSXGA+
A31 2653-Q5U | P4M 2.0GHz | 1GB | 120GB 5400 | XP Pro | 15" SXGA+

axur-delmeria
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Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#4 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri May 29, 2015 1:46 am

Why not use the Expresscard slot (assuming that your R61 has one).
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X601 Core 2 Duo T8100
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
On loan: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
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Hans Gruber
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Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#5 Post by Hans Gruber » Fri May 29, 2015 2:04 am

I have one esta external hard drive. Essentially the speed is equal to a standard 3.5" drive. A bit faster than USB 2.0 but hardly a fast connection.
:beer: T43p,T61,X200,X200s,x201,T500,W500,T510,T410,T410s,T420s,T430,T430s :parrot:

precip9
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Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#6 Post by precip9 » Fri May 29, 2015 6:58 pm

charlienyc wrote:thanks for your message. for the work i'm doing, i need synchronous data transfer. Firewire and eSATA are synchronous whereas USB is asynchronous. i did try daisy-chaining a hard drive through a firewire audio interface. this was connected to the on-board 4-pin 1394 port and worked fine. that was an interim solution though, as interfaces and drives should be on different buses.
It sounds like you might be overdubbing. But allow a questioning of the synchronous requirement. Hard drives have latency much larger than the usb interface. Windows also buffers writes, unless you have turned off write-buffering. If you haven't turned off write buffering, and it works, then usb 2.0 is worth a try.

The synchronous advantage of Firewire is essential with a dubbing loop that does not depend on hard drive writes. Then the full-duplex guaranteed latency of Firewire really does matter.

Back around 2003, I did a lot of on-site recording with a 2.1 gHz Centrino single core. It was connected to the interface with T.I. Firewire, but the write drive was just USB 2.0. Steinberg captured 16 channels/96kbs with no glitches, because the Firewire and USB had separate buses to the chipset.
W500x3 with T9900, , T400 highnit 1280x800 with P9600, X61sx3, X61Tx3.

charlienyc
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Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: chicago

Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#7 Post by charlienyc » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:19 am

thanks for all the responses.

actually i'm trying to sort this issue because i need to mix down 30-40 tracks at 24bit / 96k. i've been able to do it before via eSATA. you're exactly - separate buses are needed. that's why i'm using the onboard Firewire port for my interface.

btw, this machine has a PCMCIA slot, not expresscard. weren't they mutually exclusive on ThinkPads?

i have not had time to test, but now i really do think the dock is at fault. i'll post an update once i can spend more time with this.
precip9 wrote: It sounds like you might be overdubbing. But allow a questioning of the synchronous requirement. Hard drives have latency much larger than the usb interface. Windows also buffers writes, unless you have turned off write-buffering. If you haven't turned off write buffering, and it works, then usb 2.0 is worth a try.

The synchronous advantage of Firewire is essential with a dubbing loop that does not depend on hard drive writes. Then the full-duplex guaranteed latency of Firewire really does matter.

Back around 2003, I did a lot of on-site recording with a 2.1 gHz Centrino single core. It was connected to the interface with T.I. Firewire, but the write drive was just USB 2.0. Steinberg captured 16 channels/96kbs with no glitches, because the Firewire and USB had separate buses to the chipset.
-charlie-
P51 20HHCTO | i7-7700HQ 3.8GHz | 8GB | 256 SSD + 1 TB HD | Win10/64 | 15.6 IPS M-T
R61 8932-CTO | T8100 2.1GHz | 4GB | 250 GB 5400 | Win7/32 | 15.4" WSXGA+
A31 2653-Q5U | P4M 2.0GHz | 1GB | 120GB 5400 | XP Pro | 15" SXGA+

precip9
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Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#8 Post by precip9 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:06 am

On Thinkpads with an internal pci-e bus, which includes at least the T400/500 going forwards, the old Cardbus/PCI slot had to be "faked" by an interface chip supplied by Yamaha. The same chip does the Firewire on such machines, with a really bad audio reputation. It also makes using a SATA adapter in the PCI slot (as opposed to the Expresscard slot, which is 1X PCI-e) a bad idea, because the "faked" PCI slot is on the same bus as the Firewire.
W500x3 with T9900, , T400 highnit 1280x800 with P9600, X61sx3, X61Tx3.

charlienyc
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Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: chicago

Re: R61 transfer speeds with PCMCIA cards

#9 Post by charlienyc » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:00 pm

precip9 wrote:On Thinkpads with an internal pci-e bus, which includes at least the T400/500 going forwards, the old Cardbus/PCI slot had to be "faked" by an interface chip supplied by Yamaha. The same chip does the Firewire on such machines, with a really bad audio reputation. It also makes using a SATA adapter in the PCI slot (as opposed to the Expresscard slot, which is 1X PCI-e) a bad idea, because the "faked" PCI slot is on the same bus as the Firewire.
This is excellent information - thank you. Time for an upgraded (i.e. new) machine!
-charlie-
P51 20HHCTO | i7-7700HQ 3.8GHz | 8GB | 256 SSD + 1 TB HD | Win10/64 | 15.6 IPS M-T
R61 8932-CTO | T8100 2.1GHz | 4GB | 250 GB 5400 | Win7/32 | 15.4" WSXGA+
A31 2653-Q5U | P4M 2.0GHz | 1GB | 120GB 5400 | XP Pro | 15" SXGA+

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