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Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

R, A, G and Z series specific matters only. NOT for AMD-Ryzen.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#31 Post by Raphael_Walt » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:32 am

I have to replace the motherboard since it died a few days ago, so I thought why not go for what everyone's been putting in their T601F Frankenpads (Man I really felt my friend just wanted to dump an old machine on my hands lol)? The main problems for me are the replacement motherboard, the UXGA screen (that I hope is merely a drop in replacement for the current XGA one, 1024x720p is hard to work with in 2020, and I don't want to mess around with wires and soldering tools, yet), and getting decently priced DDR2 ram modules.

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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#32 Post by wujstefan » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:05 am

Raphael_Walt wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:48 pm
Hello. New member here.
Welcome to the forum!

Where to start...
atagunov wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Not just any 16:10 T61p but a 15.4" 16:10 T61p. 14.1" 16:10 T61p mobo is not suitable. BTW look at both T61p and T61. There shouldn't be that much diff.
Hold your horses here. There were no 16:10 14,1" T61p.
atagunov wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:34 pm
I don't know how things stand for a 15" 4:3 R61 and if it's got a similar "interposter" board.. Perhaps you can consult the HMM or open your machine up.. and tell me so that I finally know
I deeply recommend getting one - these are TOTALLY different story compared to T6x. Try to get them while they are still on the market. A great piece of engineering from Lenovo really :)

Okay now.

As you have a R61 in 4:3 ratio, you're already very lucky.
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:48 pm
I wonder how to revive it for use in 2020
Depends on what are your plans. Stock motherboard is still fine as long as you are doing literally zero graphics on it. 720p videos and so on, but nothing more. W10 works awfully on it.
If you want to get +1 generation, you can mod it putting R500 motherboard (intel-based) in it, but it's a great deal of work, and the port alignment is completely different (not to mention display cable), but the gain is not great.
If you are planning to put some extra graphics into use, either T61 or T61p 16:10 15,4" (nVidia units) do fit, but after some extra mods to the frame. All ports fit just fine, and the two drawbacks are that you will loose ultrabay flushness, and there is not enough space for standard sized SSDs (mSATA - SATA comes in handy).
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:32 am
The main problems for me are the replacement motherboard
Drop me a line, I have some spares now I started modding mine units with T61p boards ;)
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:32 am
the UXGA screen
All standard thinkpad displays are drop-in replacement. Hydis LED UXGA is available as well, and works great, but requires some extra service from our longtime furum member and helper, RealBlackStuff.
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:32 am
and getting decently priced DDR2 ram modules
This IS a problem. Putting in a dedicated GPU mobo inside partially fixes that issue ^^

Your largest concern should be mobo (as its dead), display, CPU, SSD, RAM. IMO, in this order. Mobo would be cheap (~$15), display from some T60 or T60p or some SHARP UXGA should not be a trouble as well, CPU upgrade needs middleton (dig a bit here in the forum - there is an exact way provided by RBS how to do this properly for this model) if you plan to use Penryn CPU. And if you do not know if you plan to use it, you do. T8300 would cost you $10 while providing hugely better performance compared to any stock CPU in this model. SSD is obvious - please note that it does need middleton BIOS as well to work in SATA-2 speeds. And RAM is, well... expensive :)

If you have any further concern feel free to ask. Here I'm giving a general idea to use T61p motherboard in this unit, but it's HUGELY more expensive and harder to get than R61.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#33 Post by atagunov » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:32 pm

wujstefan wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:05 am
I deeply recommend getting one - these are TOTALLY different story compared to T6x. Try to get them while they are still on the market. A great piece of engineering from Lenovo really :)
So what's the story with 4:3 15" R61? Does it use a 4:3 14" mobo + an interposter board like a 4:3 15" T60? Same question about R60?

I'm asking partly our of curiosity partly because I wouldn't want this question from Raphael to remain unanswered
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:48 pm
Would the results (would it even work?) be the same if I put in a 14.0-screen, 4:3 T61 mobo into my 15.0-screen, 4:3 R61 chassis? How will the ports from a smaller mobo emerge from a larger chassis? Do I need to modify something?
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#34 Post by wujstefan » Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:50 pm

atagunov wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:32 pm
So what's the story with 4:3 15" R61? Does it use a 4:3 14" mobo + an interposter board like a 4:3 15" T60? Same question about R60?

I'm asking partly our of curiosity partly because I wouldn't want this question from Raphael to remain unanswered
Well it's... different - take a glimpse at i.e. youtube disassembly video. It does not use an interposer (at all) since there are no 14,1" 4:3 R61 (and hence no reason for standarisation). R61 motherboard is actually closest to T61 16:10 mobo, since ports on the left handside match perfectly, as well as (most) mounting points. As for R60... I don't remember now really. I need to take a glimpse at systems I have. I've always been buying them for plastics only :P
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#35 Post by atagunov » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:16 pm

atagunov wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:32 pm
So what's the story with 4:3 15" R61? Does it use a 4:3 14" mobo + an interposter board like a 4:3 15" T60?
wujstefan wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:50 pm
Well it's... different - take a glimpse at i.e. youtube disassembly video. It does not use an interposer (at all) since there are no 14,1" 4:3 R61 (and hence no reason for standarisation). R61 motherboard is actually closest to T61 16:10 mobo, since ports on the left handside match perfectly, as well as (most) mounting points
Ah okay. Let's denote

A = T61 4:3 14"
B = T61/T61p 16:10 15.4"

A/B share port and battery connector layout
Where one fits the other should fit as well - in terms of port layout and battery connector

Re mounting points:
  • It seems both A and B fit into 15" 4:3 T60 but A is an easier fit
  • It seems both A and B fit into 15" 4:3 R61 but B is an easier fit
  • It seems both A and B fit into 15" 4:3 R60 and it is not known which is an easier fit
As noted B makes ultrabay stick out/unuseable and forces us to be creative with the SSD

Both A and B can have either nVidia or Intel graphics
A in general appear more rare than B
B with a "new" nVidia are rare and difficult to find
A with a "new" nVidia appear entirely extinct in the wild and only TuuS may have 1-2 expensive ones on hand

If nVidia is not a requirement then a replacement R61 motherboard of the right size is an effortless fit and probably cheaper too. There may be some on AliExpress. There are some on TaoBao but it's a difficult process involving talking to the seller via Google translate. There are A and B boards there too but none with a new nVidia.

P.S. as noted C = T61 16:10 14.1" has a different port layout and is not useful for building Frankenpads at all
P.P.S. after a while you learn to discern A, B and C boards from each other just by the photo. C is easiest of all - the ports on the left look different. You also learn to discern full Thinkpads with A, B and C by their photos on ebay. A is very distinctive with narrow keyboard bezel on left/right. C is distinctive in having the "well" around Esc key extend all the way to the hinge. TYPE sticker.. Twisteroid database.. Ohh..
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#36 Post by Raphael_Walt » Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm

I see, I still need the ultrabay since I got some DVDs lying around and I want to watch them (mostly videos of me and my pals fishing in a river or cooking food while camping on mountains), and I don't want things sticking out of the ultrabay cavity, because it kinda ruins the 4:3 symmetry? Ergo, the 16:10 option is ruled out.

So (if I have errors in my thought process, please correct me) let's see, my best option is either:
-A) stock replacement 4:3, 15.0-inch stock R61 mobo if I can find it on eBay (do sellers even know the difference between aspect ratios?); or
-B) a 4:3, 14.0-inch T61 or T61p mobo that has post 08/08 nVidia GPU with Middleton BIOS, the last of which are only sold by a fellow boardmember called TuuS (and he's about to run out of said mobos)?

EDIT: Here's a disassembly video of the model of R61 that I have. It seems that there is no interposer board at all, and that the latter two USB ports on the right hand side are connected via a wire? URL: https://youtu.be/Zh3XK9VNXCw
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#37 Post by wujstefan » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:58 am

Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm
-A) stock replacement 4:3, 15.0-inch stock R61 mobo if I can find it on eBay (do sellers even know the difference between aspect ratios?)
Yes. 90% ebay sellers have no idea there is something like aspect ratio. 9% ebay sellers have no idea R61 came in two aspect ratios. Go with FRU sticker, it will tell the truth.
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm
-B) a 4:3, 14.0-inch T61 or T61p mobo that has post 08/08 nVidia GPU with Middleton BIOS, the last of which are only sold by a fellow boardmember called TuuS (and he's about to run out of said mobos)?
No. It will _NOT_ fit correctly to a R61 4:3, period.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#38 Post by Raphael_Walt » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 am

wujstefan wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:58 am
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm
-A) stock replacement 4:3, 15.0-inch stock R61 mobo if I can find it on eBay (do sellers even know the difference between aspect ratios?)
Yes. 90% ebay sellers have no idea there is something like aspect ratio. 9% ebay sellers have no idea R61 came in two aspect ratios. Go with FRU sticker, it will tell the truth.
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm
-B) a 4:3, 14.0-inch T61 or T61p mobo that has post 08/08 nVidia GPU with Middleton BIOS, the last of which are only sold by a fellow boardmember called TuuS (and he's about to run out of said mobos)?
No. It will _NOT_ fit correctly to a R61 4:3, period.
That leaves me with option A, then. Is applying Middleton's BIOS different on an R61? Going to head to ebay for some scouting.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#39 Post by atagunov » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:50 am

Interestingly the guys on TaoBao I spoke to are aware of aspect ratios for T61. In fact they are aware that us customers are often not aware so they frequently ask to send a photo of your old mobo so that they can check what it is you need replaced :) The way to talk to them is via TaoBao app and google translate web page on your phone.

They have a different flaw.. They may have a listing online but no stock. Seems they don't like to take down or correct old or overly broad listings. You really need to talk to them before ordering. And of course the whole superbuy/ToaBao process for me is enormously long and time/effort consuming. It might be easier in US where TaoBao might be delivering directly (not via companies like superbuy.com). AliExpress is a lot easier too, it's just like amazon now!

The stock they do have is from disassembled Thinkpads. No new nVidia-s

P.S. rant: it seems Hermes UK have lost a parcel with a 08/08 15.4 T61 sent to me from another location in the UK.. it's been 18 days since it was sent; they claimed 3 attempts to deliver but we never had a buzz on the entry intercom.. Now it's supposed to have been sent back to the seller but he hasn't confirmed the receipt either.. shpock.com so less reliance on protections by the platform.. but even if I get refunded, where do I find another one?!
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#40 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:36 am

Try forum member TuuS.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#41 Post by wujstefan » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:01 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:03 am
Try Core Temp for more accurate info: https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/
Then HWinfo stands the right temps (unfortunately).

On the other hand, I think I am a little big closer to settling at the right temp. After polishing copper face and swapping thermal compound to NT-H1 temps under load have dropped to 77/83C (synthetic load for CPU/GPU) and a very acceptable 74C/77C (game + cad running at the same time).

I am somewhat thrilled about the quadcore in this system, but I guess the heat dissipation would move me towards some serious undervolting.

In the so-called meanwhile, I have developed and 3-d printed mSATA->SATA adapter frame to fit correctly into the cavity:

Image
Image
Image

As well as started building some frame to fit modified UB battery or additional mSATA SSD (This is prototype OFC - the finished part will be in black):

Image
Image
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#42 Post by atagunov » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm

wujstefan wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:58 am
Raphael_Walt wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:40 pm
-B) a 4:3, 14.0-inch T61 or T61p mobo that has post 08/08 nVidia GPU with Middleton BIOS, the last of which are only sold by a fellow boardmember called TuuS (and he's about to run out of said mobos)?
No. It will _NOT_ fit correctly to a R61 4:3, period.
..and if you had a 15" 4:3 T60(p) interposter board (FRU-s: 41W1055 39T0482 41W1130)?

P.S. Very nice mSATA-SATA adapter! What's the bigger 3d-printed part for? Is this to plug the Ultrabay hole? To house extra batteries? I understand there's little sense in a 2nd SSD there?.. Since only PATA interface?
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#43 Post by wujstefan » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:11 pm

atagunov wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm
..and if you had a 15" 4:3 T60(p) interposter board (FRU-s: 41W1055 39T0482 41W1130)?
I think only 16:10 15,4" units do the trick. I am at a little bit different project right now, but once I'm back into T/R series I will make a comparison... someday...
atagunov wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:37 pm
P.S. Very nice mSATA-SATA adapter! What's the bigger 3d-printed part for? Is this to plug the Ultrabay hole? To house extra batteries? I understand there's little sense in a 2nd SSD there?.. Since only PATA interface?
This one is to fit ultrabay battery - I need to rebuild the UB battery itself, but physically it seems possible. This is just a prototype; it will be printed of - no surprise - black ABS. I was also thinking about the second drive place here. Turning standard 2,5" HDD 90 degrees may work. mSata will definitely fit ofc. Why only PATA interface?
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#44 Post by atagunov » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:35 pm

wujstefan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:11 pm
Why only PATA interface?
I seem to remember reading somewhere that DVD is connected via PATA on T61(p). E.g. that there is no 2nd SATA connection to use for a 2nd SSD.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#45 Post by atagunov » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:30 pm

Hi, it seems I have caught the R6* bug :) I now wish to play around with an R-series 15" body too. So here comes my question: how much does the body differ between R61 and R60?

Only 15" 4:3 models under consideration.

I have come across a statement that R61 is made of "the same plastics as T60" except the rubberized coating on the lid. That same statement claimed R60 was made of "just plain ABS plastic" which was assumed to be poorer than the one used in R61. Is that true? Is R61 body better than R60 body?

Thx!
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#46 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:43 pm

AFAIK the R series cases are ABS plastic while the contemporary T series cases are CFRP.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#47 Post by atagunov » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:17 am

wujstefan wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:11 pm
This one is to fit ultrabay battery - I need to rebuild the UB battery itself, but physically it seems possible. This is just a prototype; it will be printed of - no surprise - black ABS. I was also thinking about the second drive place here. Turning standard 2,5" HDD 90 degrees may work. mSata will definitely fit ofc. Why only PATA interface?
BTW, do you happen to have 20mm of space there for 20mm x 700mm batteries? You probably don't have to limit yourselves to 18650, there are also 20700 rated at whopping 4.25Ah. That's a good boost over 2.55Ah we're used to innit? :)

Of course you will need to tell the controller it's got bigger cells now. If we can find a controller that is easy to put into Unsealed state, we may be able to tell it that it's got bigger cells via a Demo version of this app: http://be2works.com/ I've put some of preliminary findings into this post. Happy to cooperate on the project though I may not end up that active. We can probably start a new thread in off-topic?

I've already got one opened batt with a M37512 controller in it, but I have no clue how much alive it is. It's a genuine 9-cell 92P1133 10.8V 7.8Ah from a sacrificial T61. I've also ordered both of Cypress FX2LP (aka CY7C68013A) and CP2112 from Ali at the cost of around £4-5 each. The idea is to be able to use both https://github.com/karosium/smbusb and http://be2works.com/ - they each require different board. BTW be sure to lock USB ids for CP2112 before using it..

Another item: haven't yet ordered this spot welder but plan to order one later. This is because I understand new cells won't go into original case if soldered together - the length of the pack will be too much. They need to have tabs welded. And I hope to use this welder connected via jump leads to my car battery, to make this a cheaper project, he he. Probably not a problem for your ultrabay batt, you can solder.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#48 Post by wujstefan » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:09 am

atagunov wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:30 pm
I have come across a statement that R61 is made of "the same plastics as T60" except the rubberized coating on the lid. That same statement claimed R60 was made of "just plain ABS plastic" which was assumed to be poorer than the one used in R61. Is that true? Is R61 body better than R60 body?
I can share the lids if you like so you can investigate yourself :) I do not see any difference, and it can't be a plain ABS. Too strong, too resilent for chemicals.
TPFanatic wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:43 pm
AFAIK the R series cases are ABS plastic while the contemporary T series cases are CFRP.
Depends on the model. Both R6x and T6x have some sort of addon. But this is a nice idea to test it. @atagunov - if you like to check I'm very happy to share my lids, as I personally have no time to do this.
atagunov wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:17 am
BTW, do you happen to have 20mm of space there for 20mm x 700mm batteries?
Unfortunately, no ;( This is, the spacing is correct, but there would be no space left for plastics. I have put that project on hold as I have neither skill nor equipment to rebuild battery...
atagunov wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:17 am
Another item: haven't yet ordered this spot welder but plan to order one later.
... this made me curious, however :) When you have the stuff, time and will let me know. If you are interested in helping with this very specific project I can provide you with UB battery and plastics to try rebuilding process.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#49 Post by atagunov » Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:42 am

wujstefan wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:09 am
When you have the stuff, time and will let me know. If you are interested in helping with this very specific project I can provide you with UB battery and plastics to try rebuilding process.
Time is a problem yes.. I wanted to try to re-cell a regular (non-ultrabay) 6-cell battery. Partly for fun, partly to increase capacity replacing 2.6Ah cells with 3.4Ah ones. Here spot-welding is a must. If you don't spot-weld but solder instead the new battery pack will not fit into the old battery body.

It is my understanding now all these older batteries differ only in their shape. The connector and the interface between EC and the battery are the same on all. One clue is that I read you can build an "extension lead" connecting any battery to any Thinkpad. Well probably at least in this generation of machines. And the connector on the Ultrabay battery is apparently the same too.

So it seems that if you can re-cell an old batt you can also build a new ultrabay battery from scratch. All you need are the cells, a suitable controller board, the connector and the skill to 3d-print the new enclosure :) Well it sounds easy in theory in practice I'm not that good with my hands.. Let's see where it all gets us. In theory one could try using controller from any battery for this - if it fits in the space. But if it doesn't then using the original controller from an ultrabay batt specifically may be the best or only solution.. After all it will have the ideal shape and battery connector in the right place already.

Re 2070 cells.. Suppose we use spot-welding to attach metal stritps where strips are due and wrap the whole thing in Kapton tape generously. This would give us a square-shaped battery pack exactly 20mm thick. Okay 20mm+kapton. Would that fit into the compartment?.. I mean instead of 3d-printing the whole batt you could 3-d print spacers to firmly hold this thing in place. Like sort of a frame around it.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#50 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:07 am

The other day I flashed the BIOS of my X201 with the help of an E530 battery and my battery extension cord.
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#51 Post by atagunov » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:56 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:07 am
my battery extension cord.
Hello Sir, sitting here with my battery running out 'cause I grabbed X220 in too much haste to pick a 2nd one.. how long do you think can such an extension cord possibly be?.. It seems some sort of external powerpack would also be a feasible thing to build..

..of course power packs could just plug into the main power jack; the advantage of plugging into battery connector is arguably that Thinkpad then knows it's on battery not on AC. It will apply power saving and will not attempt to charge internal batt form the external one. Update: but charging it will be a hassle. You'd almost need an old Thinkpad mobo to make a charger :-/
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Re: Under construction: R61p *Picture warning*

#52 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:34 pm

My cable (cut from an old IDE cable) is only about 15cm and wire thickness an estimated AWG 26.
Using such a cable should allow easily for up to 50cm.
I have an external IBM battery charger 40Y7625 like this: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/362272670676
to which you connect a standard 20V 65/90/130W power supply with barrel-connector.
Image

Alternative is this: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/123964846567 but I have never seen/used one.

Supported batteries (incomplete): https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/ie/en/accessories/HT037009
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