Ready to take the Z60T plunge

[monsieurlee]

Hi, I'm new here. I've been lurking for a year or so, back when I had a company T30. After the T30 I was a new Thinkpad convert. Now that I'm back in school I had to surrender that T30 but I'm also ready to finally buy a Z60T. Since I've never owned one I have a few questions:


1. Anyone bought from Euclid Computers? Any bad experiences? What benefits do I get from Lenovo direst vs. buying form Euclid?

2. From what I understand there are partitions on the HD for rescue and recovery. How can I go about making a drive image of the HD for safekeeping before I even boot up the first time? I would also like to swap in a 7200rpm drive. is it possible to transfer the HD image to the new drive?

3. There doesn't seem to be much traffic in the Z series forum compared to the others, and it seems like most people in here prefer the Z60M. Is there a particular reason for this? Is there something with the Z60T I should be aware of?

I used the search function for #2 but it returned so many results I just got confused. I don't expect a summary so if someone can post the link to the right threads about them I'd really appreciate it.

I think that's all for now...

[dr_st]

1. Anyone bought from Euclid Computers? Any bad experiences? What benefits do I get from Lenovo direst vs. buying form Euclid?

By from someone you personally trust. As long as your warranty is Lenovo direct, it doesn't matter.

2. From what I understand there are partitions on the HD for rescue and recovery. How can I go about making a drive image of the HD for safekeeping before I even boot up the first time? I would also like to swap in a 7200rpm drive. is it possible to transfer the HD image to the new drive?

There are tools like Norton Ghost and Acronis TrueImage that can do this. I imagine you can boot them from CD and clone the hard disks to a bunch of CDs or DVDs before booting it. Alternatively, you can use a 2.5" enclosure to connect the HD to some other PC and clone it from there. And yes, you can transfer HD images to new drives. Using the same tools I mentioned above.

3. There doesn't seem to be much traffic in the Z series forum compared to the others, and it seems like most people in here prefer the Z60M. Is there a particular reason for this? Is there something with the Z60T I should be aware of?

Z60t is much more portable than Z60m. Hence its advantage. But it's the only advantage.

It's got:

* Questionable build quality (too many people reported issues to ignore)
* Dim LCD (none of the enhanced stuff like Maxbright/Flexview and on some models the screen was reported as very dim and dark)
* Not very high quality DVD burners (problem with all Ultrabay-slim burners, including T4x/T6x series)
* No dedicated video cards for those who care for high-end gaming
* High price for what you get

[TheMitcher]

This is my first post to this forum. I thought you might be interested in knowing that the Z60t is one of only four laptops or notebooks chosen by PC Magazine as the best available right now. I believe two of the four were the new dual core, but all the reviews I've read were highly favorable to the Z60t. You might also check out long review in Laptoplogic.com. I can't tell you from personal experience because mine has not yet arrived. It did ship today, so it won't be long now. But I must tell you it was ordered way back on November 2nd. So if Euclid has them in stock, that might be the way to go.

You know from your experience with the T-30 just how good Thinkpads are. My son has T-42 which he just loves. My wife just got a T-43, ordered two weeks ago from Lenovo Direct and it arrived a week later. In fact, I am typing on it now. If my Z60t is half as much fun to use at this, I will be thrilled. I will post my thoughts after a use it awhile.

Here's wishing you an enjoyable experience with whatever laptop you decide to buy.

[willgriam]

I would carefully check the return policy. It seems like only IBM will take back a laptop within 30 days at no cost if you do not like it.

[monsieurlee]

Z60t is much more portable than Z60m. Hence its advantage. But it's the only advantage.

It's got:

* Questionable build quality (too many people reported issues to ignore)
* Dim LCD (none of the enhanced stuff like Maxbright/Flexview and on some models the screen was reported as very dim and dark)
* Not very high quality DVD burners (problem with all Ultrabay-slim burners, including T4x/T6x series)
* No dedicated video cards for those who care for high-end gaming
* High price for what you get

This is my first post to this forum. I thought you might be interested in knowing that the Z60t is one of only four laptops or notebooks chosen by PC Magazine as the best available right now. I believe two of the four were the new dual core, but all the reviews I've read were highly favorable to the Z60t. You might also check out long review in Laptoplogic.com. I can't tell you from personal experience because mine has not yet arrived. It did ship today, so it won't be long now. But I must tell you it was ordered way back on November 2nd. So if Euclid has them in stock, that might be the way to go.

Here's wishing you an enjoyable experience with whatever laptop you decide to buy.

I would carefully check the return policy. It seems like only IBM will take back a laptop within 30 days at no cost if you do not like it.

Thank you all for your replies.

re: 30 days. Yeah, I realized that Lenovo does have the warranty, but I'm not normally someone who send stuff back. Euclid does have it in stock and from what i can gather is reputable, so the decision is between Enclid's ability to get it to me in a day or two plus the lower price, or Lenovo's higher price ($50 diff), longer wait, but 30day return.

so it boils down the the Z60T itself. Like themitcher said, all of the review i've read on the Z60T have been fantastic, which got me thinking because there were so few comments on the Z60T in this forum. after reading dr_st's reply i have to say i'm surprised at the build quality issues. all the other issues such as game or DVD aren't too big of a deal. mainly i need a relatively compact machine to run graphics apps at school. no time for games and i've got a home machine for that anyway. can you perhaps point me to the comment about them? i'm interested in finding out just exactly is bad about them.

Thanks! you guys are very helpful and i really appreciate it.

[TheMitcher]

My Z60t left China yesterday and has arrived in New York today, one day later. So many Lenovo is doing something about the delivery issues. As for build quality, my wife's T-43 on which I am now typing is just the best. I hope to be able to make a comparison for you later in the day or tomorrow.

One more thought, I believe the reason there are so few comments on the Z60's is the fact that there are still relatively few of them out there. Given how new they are and the delivery issues, not many consumers have them yet.

But from the reviews I've read, I really expect to be totally happy with the Z60t, including it's build quality. I think some people who have made critical comments are oppossed to the Lenovo takeover of IBM, and I can understand that. But remember, the same former IBM employees designed and built this machine. Must reviews say it is even of better quality with it its improved roll cage and keyboard.

Thanks for hearing me out. I hope this helps in your decision making.

[dr_st]

can you perhaps point me to the comment about them? i'm interested in finding out just exactly is bad about them.

Here are some "not so good" comments I found:

Reviewer Andrew Baxter gets an early production model with some flex / creakiness issues and also reports the display being not very bright:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2557

Same review, this time no complaints on build, but still issue with screen brightness:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2567

Rocketman complains about screen and general look&feel:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17526

Various users mention issues with Z60t display models:
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=32584

rz8168 is not very happy with the Z60t he received:
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=34804

More hit-n-miss with the Z60t (i.e. some have issues, some don't):
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=36882

Of course, I deliberately chose the bad comments. There have been much more good comments, but with the repeated complaints I got the impression that build quality issues may be more frequent than with the average Thinkpad.

With that said, if these issues were the only ones with the Z60t, I wouldn't consider that too big a problem, because you are likely to get a unit that doesn't have these issues, and if it does, you can replace within the 30-day return period. But there's also the screen brightness which has been considered quite low by most who have seen and used the laptop, and the lack of video cards that is a downside to me, but not necessarily to everyone. Now everyone has to do his own math.

[ericssonboi]

can you perhaps point me to the comment about them? i'm interested in finding out just exactly is bad about them.

Here are some "not so good" comments I found:

Reviewer Andrew Baxter gets an early production model with some flex / creakiness issues and also reports the display being not very bright:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2557

Same review, this time no complaints on build, but still issue with screen brightness:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2567

Rocketman complains about screen and general look&feel:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17526

Various users mention issues with Z60t display models:
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=32584

rz8168 is not very happy with the Z60t he received:
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=34804

More hit-n-miss with the Z60t (i.e. some have issues, some don't):
http://forums.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=36882

Of course, I deliberately chose the bad comments. There have been much more good comments, but with the repeated complaints I got the impression that build quality issues may be more frequent than with the average Thinkpad.

With that said, if these issues were the only ones with the Z60t, I wouldn't consider that too big a problem, because you are likely to get a unit that doesn't have these issues, and if it does, you can replace within the 30-day return period. But there's also the screen brightness which has been considered quite low by most who have seen and used the laptop, and the lack of video cards that is a downside to me, but not necessarily to everyone. Now everyone has to do his own math.

Some very good points..
They those in the posts... it seems like the Z60T's are either a hit or amiss. There is always the 30 day return policy that you can use if you do decide... but many users have been waiting so long... that they mind as well just settle?

[amitra]

One month with my z60t. Survived 2 light drops, with just some minor scratches.
Awesome laptop (highly recommended).. powerful and convenient ..
For those extra heavy grind i always have my desktop.

[ericssonboi]

One month with my z60t. Survived 2 light drops, with just some minor scratches.
Awesome laptop (highly recommended).. powerful and convenient ..
For those extra heavy grind i always have my desktop.

Care to further explain the situations of your light drops.. ?

[amitra]

2 feet -> laptop screen open -> on bare floor
2 - 3 feet -> screen closed -> on carpet

[TheMitcher]

I'll make this brief, because I have been up all night with my new Z60t. It arrived one day after notification of shipping, after a three month wait. As far as I am concerned, it was very much worth the wait.

So far, I really love this machine. The build quality on is every bit as good, if not better than my wife's T-43 and my son's T-42. Yes, I would agree it is not the brightest screen found on laptops today, but I don't even have to set it to the brightest level for comfortable viewing. In other words it is a non-issue for me.

There are no heat or fan issues with this machine. I am not a gammer so the graphics card situation is not a problem to me. And, of course, I knew about the graphics issue before buying this computer.

Perhape I'll post some more after I get some rest. But I just wanted to say the Thinkpad Z-60t comes highly reccommended by me. And I have had a computer of one type or another since 1984, though this is my first laptop.

[GomJabbar]

I finally saw my first Z60t in person at Office Depot today. I really liked it. It had the Titanium cover which I liked as well. I looked around it and saw an S-Video jack and a SD card slot. Both are welcome features. I liked the display just fine.

The only problem that I saw for myself is that the palmrest is not as deep as on my T42 and I can see where it might cause me some wrist pain down the road. My hands are probably a little larger than average and I already have some right wrist pain on occasion (probably from using the mouse), so that is the reason for my comment. But even so, if I was in the market for a new ThinkPad I would give the Z60t serious consideration.

[monsieurlee]

one of the thing I want to do on my new laptop is to run Adobe Photoshop and Rhino 3D. I understand that in terms of power, the Z60T has plenty. What I'm afraid of is the lack of screen real estate. is 1280 x 768 way too small for me to consider running graphics apps?