A21m shuts off unexpectedly: update: m-board replaced, OK

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asadniazi · #1 Post by **asadniazi** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:27 pm

This may be related to the sticky on A2x power issues, but I am posting it separately as the problem is a little different.

My A21m (800MHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB/5400rpm HDD, 3600 (IBM)/ 6600(aftermarket) mAh battery) works without a problem in the office, where it is connected to the ac mains through a power conditioner/spike buster.

However, it often shuts down unexpectedly elsewhere (home, cafe, etc.) when connected to ac mains. When that happens, it refuses to come on again by pressing the power button - I have to unplug it, remove the battery for a few seconds, put it back and then restart it, as if some capacitor bank needs discharging. It is fine running only on the battery, or on ac mains with the battery removed. In the latter case however, it runs only at 650MHz, and is also no longer a 'mobile' option.

I have not yet tried using a power conditioner at home. I wonder if dirty mains power is the issue, or is it the power brick which is unable to provide stabilized power and needs replacement?

#2 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:39 pm

Hi! I don't personally own any A series system, but I do use an A31 at the office. It's been brought home a couple of times (using a different AC adapter) without any problems. From your description, it sounds like the only variable is the AC power. This is assuming that you are always using the same AC adapter.

You may also want to try downloading a temperature utility program such as MobileMeter. Available from this site:

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/

at the second link listed from the top of the page. Monitor the temperature and see if that might be a cause of the shutdown. Other than that, I don't have any other suggestions besides going through the sticky you mentioned and making sure everything is tightly plugged into the motherboard (CPU, memory, cables, etc.).

(corrected typos.. that's what I get for typing fast!)

asadniazi · #3 Post by **asadniazi** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:36 am

Hi.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have downloaded the mobilemeter utility and shall check the system temperature to see if overheating is the issue. The fan does come on automatically as required, so a jammed/not working fan is not the problem.

asadniazi · #4 Post by **asadniazi** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:19 pm

I have been running mobimeter for a while now - the normal idling/basic usage temeratures were 35-50C, but the machine would still shut off esp if i was doing a cpu intensive task like watching a DVD for a long time. Unfortunately, I could not monitor the exact point at which the machine shut off, though it was definitely showing in the 65-70C range.

I figured out that the CPU was probably overheating and shutting off, even thought the fan used to come on. So I decided to open up the case and clean it out with compressed air. That made no difference.

Then I thought that the heat sink to CPU contact had degraded. So I got some Arctic Silver 5 today, cleaned up the heat sink + CPU with alcohol, applied the AS5 as per instructions on the website (thin layer on the CPU, and some rubbed into the heatsink to fill the bumps), put back the setup, and decided to check the CPU temperature while running SuperPI.

The temperature on bootup is about 45C. And once I start running SuperPi, it goes up all the way to 78-82C before the fan comes on. This seems way too hot to me before the fan comes on. And the fan is unable to lower the temperature of the CPU under load to below 70C. The machine also shutdown once during the high temp test.

Is this normal or have I goofed up somewhere?

#5 Post by **rkawakami** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:52 pm

Everything you described about the application of AS5 seems to be correct. It appears that for some reason the heat sink/fan assembly is not able to extract the excessive heat from the CPU. The 1.6Ghz A31 that's idling here in the office is at 36c. When I had used it to transcode some video a few months ago, I believe the temps hit 75-80c. The fan was working all that time and the system never shutdown because of the heat.

The boot up temp of 45c seems kinda high. Unless this was immediately after a themal shutdown. If not, is there some process running in the background which is consuming a lot of the CPU resources? Antivirus, spyware or adware scanner perhaps? And what is the wattage of the AC adapter you are using when the system is exhibiting this thermal problem? The A21m, I believe, requires the 72 watt adapter (16V 4.5A).

asadniazi · #6 Post by **asadniazi** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:22 pm

I just recovered from a thermal shutdown at 70-75C, running superPi and with the fan coming on at close to 80C.

The 45C boot temp is from a cold start. And there is no other process eating up CPU cycles in the background - the taskmanager shows CPU usage at a few %. Only on loading the CPU (SuperPi) does the CPU usage go to 100%.

I am using the 72W (16V,4.5A) adapter, though I have checked and found it supplying 15-18V, even through a power conditioner.

#7 Post by **rkawakami** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:58 am

asadniazi wrote:I am using the 72W (16V,4.5A) adapter, though I have checked and found it supplying 15-18V, even through a power conditioner.

That's a little strange... Several of my 4.5A adapters have a steady reading of 16.6V or 16.7V (using a Fluke 110 DVM) and no power conditioner. Is the voltage jumping around while you are measuring it? And this is without the adapter plugged into the laptop, correct? If it is varying that much, then I would suspect that the filtering of the adapter is bad (or your meter is drifting).

You mentioned in your first post that the laptop works fine in the office but doesn't elsewhere. Are you using the same adapter in both cases?

asadniazi · #8 Post by **asadniazi** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:42 pm

I checked the adapter voltage again, using a Keithley DMM at work - it is indeed 16.7 volts, whether through the conditioner or plugged in directly into the wall socket. I guess the other dmm must have been drifting.

The laptop still boots up at 45C and runs warm between 45-55C for minor tasks. The fan refuses to come on before 75-80C - I guess by that time the local (instantaneous) temperature of the CPU could shoot beyond the shutdown threshold. Is there someway to check the voltage supplied to the fan? Utilities like tpfancontrol/motherboard monitor/speedfan are unable to get any information from the A21m bios.

asadniazi · #9 Post by **asadniazi** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:42 pm

This is an update on the situation.

The a21m is now occasionally shutting off even at the office desk with the power through the conditioner. When this happens, Mobimeter shows that it is overheating beyond 70C without the fan kicking in. The fan does, however, come on at other times.

Is this a motherboard issue? Time to look for a replacement? And I missed the holiday sales....

#10 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:43 pm

You can try downloading a copy of PC Doctor for the A21m from here:

PC Doctor for A2* DOS

You will need to download all three files, execute each one of them and they will create three bootable diskettes. Boot the system, follow the instructions and once PC Doctor has finished loading, select the Diagnostic menu, then Other Devices. This should display a menu where you can run the IBM Fan diagnostic. You may also want to run the IBM Thermal Sensors test too. If they pass then the only thing I can suggest is to run the following tests:

CPU/Coprocessor
Systemboard
Memory Test - Full

asadniazi · #11 Post by **asadniazi** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:39 am

I downloaded and ran the PC Doctor diagnostics. The fan, thermal sensors, CPU, systemboard, RAM were fine. But even during the tests the machine would often die unexpectedly. So I put it aside and got a Dell D620 (CoreDuo1.66GHz, 1GB, WXGA+) for my office work. Meanwhile I located and have bought a replacement motherboard off EBay, which I need to put in and check. As of the past week I am also the proud owner of a T60 WS 87445BU from PCSuperdeals ( LENOVO TOPSELLER T60 T7200 2.0G 1GB 120GB DVDRW 15.4-WSXGA+ BFP XPP, 3yrs warranty)

asadniazi · #12 Post by **asadniazi** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:14 pm

Final Update:

I replaced the motherboard and have been running the laptop for the past month without a problem. I am now looking to selling it as I have the new T-60 (need to get an NMB keyboard - the ALPS one is too mushy). See my post in the marketplace.

The old motherboard is not dead and may be repairable by someone who has the circuit diagram and tools to check the part which was failing. My guess would be some capacitor, since it would shut down under load and needed unplugging the ac and removing the battery for ~1/2 min before it would restart - as if some capacitor needed to discharge. If anyone wants the motherboard to play around with, I can ship it for the cost of shipping charges.

A21m shuts off unexpectedly: update: m-board replaced, OK

A21m shuts off unexpectedly: update: m-board replaced, OK

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