R40 Screen Problem

[ziptron]

First off I just found this forum today and its neat to see how many people have/love Thinkpads

I've had a thinkpad for the past 3 years and its been absolutely amazing, I carried it with me -everywhere- I went, everyday and not a single problem, until now.

Currently I have a R40 (kinda old, but still kicking it quite hard!)

Anyway, every time I boot up, after a little bit of time (sometimes less then a minute, sometimes more then 5 minutes) my screen starts to jitter and then freezes with a quilted pattern of colours.

The computer is still running because I can see the colours changing when I move the mouse, and I can put it into stand-by using the Fn key. When it comes back from standby the monitor is usually fine (however not always, and I have to put it into standby again for it to fix itself). Same thing happens when I try using an external monitor. I also tried updating the BIOS which did not help.


The problem used to happen every few weeks, then it become every few days, and now it happens all the time

Any ideas??

[gruurly]

Amazing!

I've been looking for someone, somewhere on the Net to post this issue, trying to find out why my R40 does the exact same thing.

I've run PC Doctor and all that came up was the PMCIA External Loop failed.

I'm wondering if it is an overheating problem, since the wiring for the screen runs around the same place as the fan, and this issue only seems to happen when the system is running really hot.

But I could be wrong. I'm grasping at straws.

[Chris001]

Anyway, every time I boot up, after a little bit of time (sometimes less then a minute, sometimes more then 5 minutes) my screen starts to jitter and then freezes with a quilted pattern of colours.

Same thing happens when I try using an external monitor.

Any ideas??

ziptron,

If the problem happens on both the LCD and external monitor, I would lean toward a dying system board or GPU.

Chris

[ziptron]

Hey gruurly,

We're not alone!! I've found one other post on the google forums describing the same issue, but no one was able to answer it and the topic is long dead because its been longer then 2 years since it was posted.

I've e-mailed the person who started it but they have not yet responded.

Someone mentioned the idea of overheating, and I've noticed my fan making really odd noises lately. My fan actually barely ever runs anymore, I forget if it is supposed to run all the time or just from time to time, does your fan turn on often?

Another thing is (and this may be totally psychological because the problem happens so often) that I feel like I can bring this problem on by taking the bottom left corner of the computer and the top right corner of the computer and bending the unit ever so slightly. Does the same happen to you?

[ziptron]

Anyway, every time I boot up, after a little bit of time (sometimes less then a minute, sometimes more then 5 minutes) my screen starts to jitter and then freezes with a quilted pattern of colours.

Same thing happens when I try using an external monitor.

Any ideas??

ziptron,

If the problem happens on both the LCD and external monitor, I would lean toward a dying system board or GPU.

Chris

Since the GPU is attached to the motherboard, is my thinkpad a lost cause then?

[gruurly]

Someone mentioned the idea of overheating, and I've noticed my fan making really odd noises lately. My fan actually barely ever runs anymore, I forget if it is supposed to run all the time or just from time to time, does your fan turn on often?

My fan turns on and off at will. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Basically, it seems to be working just fine, although the system does run hot.

Another thing is (and this may be totally psychological because the problem happens so often) that I feel like I can bring this problem on by taking the bottom left corner of the computer and the top right corner of the computer and bending the unit ever so slightly. Does the same happen to you?

Yes. Definitely. I can also bring on the problem (sometimes) by closing the laptop if I'm walking away for a bit. I no longer do this; instead I just leave it open on hibernate.

Now for something really weird...

If I leave air flow underneath the laptop, either by leaving it on it's SIDE when I walk away or propping it up on something, this problem doesn't occur. As soon as I try to move the screen however - blammo - the magic lines appear.

[gruurly]

Funny how when I find one person with this problem, I suddenly find others after months of struggling with this issue.

Someone else on another board suggested the issue may be with the graphics card or a power regulatory circuitry issue. I'm researching both now.

[ziptron]

its such an odd problem because if it was fully hardware based, then how could we be bringing it on ourselves?

I wonder if your idea of giving it air flow at the bottom is simply keeping something either connected, or seperated when its slightly propped up. Since I feel that if I move it too much while its on, the same thing happens.

If I ever try to bring the computer over even a few feet, I got into the habit of putting it on stand-by before I make any movements with it.


For me this problem started a few months ago, however it was -very- rare and it didn't bother me until it started happening more and more frequently, until now it happens all the time.

How long has this problem been happening to you?
Has the frequency of it increased for you too?

[ziptron]

Funny how when I find one person with this problem, I suddenly find others after months of struggling with this issue.

Someone else on another board suggested the issue may be with the graphics card or a power regulatory circuitry issue. I'm researching both now.

Forms in general are amazing don't you think? Countless of conversations, all logged, countless amount of information all searchable, countless number of ideas people can draw from each other!

[gruurly]

its such an odd problem because if it was fully hardware based, then how could we be bringing it on ourselves?

Agreed. That's why I haven't given up on this system - yet.

I wonder if your idea of giving it air flow at the bottom is simply keeping something either connected, or seperated when its slightly propped up. Since I feel that if I move it too much while its on, the same thing happens.

I move it, and it's toast. Period. I've even tried using your standby solution (something I never discovered on my own) but it only works part of the time.

If I leave it on it's side, it'll work for as long as I leave it plugged in or until the battery runs out. I can't type that way though. So I've taken to placing it on top of a binder propped upright with the 'doors' open enough to stabilize the unit. A friend of mine told me I can grab something more stable with another fan on the bottom at Staples (item #589996). I'll take a peek perhaps this weekend.

For me this problem started a few months ago, however it was -very- rare and it didn't bother me until it started happening more and more frequently, until now it happens all the time.

How long has this problem been happening to you?
Has the frequency of it increased for you too?

I've had this issue for probably six months now; however I rarely use the laptop because of this issue. I'm planning on purchasing a new one... but I'm stubborn. I want to know what's wrong with the one I have!

The frequency did increase dramatically. It happened infrequently, then it occured more and more until now, where if I leave it on a flat surface with no ventillation underneath, it turns functionality into art within five to ten minutes. Very frustrating.

[ziptron]

Yes, I'm the same way. I will more then likely get a new computer since it is quite old, but I'm quite stubborn and want to find out what went wrong!


Yes, mine happens like this too, if I put it to one side it turns to 'art' instantly, and now even if I leave it sitting by itself, it does the same thing.

We clearly have the exact same problem. I wish we had a solution

[gruurly]

Update: I used something to prop up the back of the R40 last evening , allowing adequate air flow underneath. No issues at all; not a one. However, I just left it there. There was no typing or using of the laptop at all.

Now I will attempt to use it while safely propped up on a device made for such a thing.

I may also tomorrow open up the darn thing to see if one of the plugs to the video card has inadvertendly become loosened. It depends on my timeline, but that's the plan. Never done anything like this before, but I have the manual in hand with excellent instructions.

[gruurly]

I think I found it!!

Here's someone else with the same issue:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... =r40+video

Here's the solution:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 2&start=60

I'll try this later on tonight or tomorrow and post my results.

[ziptron]

His screen looks a little different from mine, however its worth a shot.

I'm away from my computer for the next few days as I left it at home knowing its become usless in travel. If you do try this, please do post your results.

If this works, it would be fantastic!

- Paul

[gruurly]

I did it the other night, and used some tin foil folded into a small square to cover the GPU (the yellow stickered item underneath the trackball when you remove the keyboard).

It worked amazingly well the first night.

I've now used the laptop most of this morning with only one visual disturbance. It's now propped up on a book so that there is adequate airflow, and with the tinfoil it's working well, but not error-free. There are still some minor 'sways' back and forth on the screen occasionally. The only time I wasn't able to see the screen I used Fn+F4 and then Fn and it quickly resolved itself.

So, not 100% fixed but much better than I ever expected. I may add more tinfoil later, or see if perhaps it's moved a bit from where I placed it originally since I didn't adhere it with anything.

[gruurly]

Oops. Double post.

[ziptron]

Did you simply put the tin foil overtop of the yellow exclamation mark? or did you unscrew that metal cover and put the tin foil in between the chip and the cover?

[ziptron]

LIttle update.

So I got a hold of my computer, all I did was press down with my fringers on the GPU. Now it ran all day without any problems

I did not put in any foil or post-its.. yet. However, I realized that if I bend the top right corner a lot, the problem happens again.

[Asbradley21]

My R40 recently started making a quilted overlay type thing when I opened the screen, now, sometimes closing and opening it again fixed the problem, sometimes just logging in did the trick, however, I installed linux and it just went away, go figure.

[gruurly]

Did you simply put the tin foil overtop of the yellow exclamation mark? or did you unscrew that metal cover and put the tin foil in between the chip and the cover?

I simply put tin foil on top of the yellow exclamation mark. No unscrewing of anything - yet. It's working at about 85% now.

My R40 recently started making a quilted overlay type thing when I opened the screen, now, sometimes closing and opening it again fixed the problem, sometimes just logging in did the trick, however, I installed linux and it just went away, go figure.

Interesting about installing Linux and all working fine. I've been thinking about that myself. Your symptoms and solutions are exactly what I did as well initially, but it got to the point where those tactics no longer worked after a couple of months.

Still, I'm happy. The laptop is no longer a paperweight now.

[ziptron]

probably out of laziness and lack of tin foil at my house .. I simply pressed down the GPU with my finger, and the computer works well. I can still produce the problem by bending the computer slightly and I poping it out.

I've stopped carrying the computer as much as I used to, and its been working fine. The problem for sure was the GPU popping out of place on account of bending or perhaps even temperature change I guess, since I brought the computer in many times in from the cold into the warm and vice versa.

I lost the full convenience, but it still saves me buying a new one right away.

[MeanGene]

Wow, I wish I found this site when I first started workin on thinkpads. Alot of the info on this site would have been helpful especially ppl that actually owned 1.

I hated this model when it first came out, that was one of the main issues that it came in for. Distorted display and all we did was just replace the systemboard.

[phool@round]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=33560

The issue is the video chip ball solder connects are disconnecting from the chip or the board. It's rather common amoung the ATI video chips and even Apple's iBooks are very well documented and being replaced if they are within a certain serial number range and show the correct "symptoms".

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do other than to heat the chip and have it "sink" in. You have to reflow the solder under the chip. It's not easy to do but can be and guys with paint strip heat guns have done it with iBooks for some time. I don't suggest it until you google it and are familiar with what it's all about. Not all are successful, only the very brave.

Part of the problem you see displayed is initially due to heat, the "artifacts" are indeed heat induced and with no active cooling on the chip it overheats. In time it effects the connections under the chip and if the laptop is picked up, voila, screen freezes. The shim idea isn't new either, the iBook crowd has been using the same technic and it will work but only for so long.

I know so much about this because I posted the same issue I had with an R50=Radeon 9000.

Hot Air reflow stations on Ebay for @ $90 bucks will work but not very accurate. You need something that can gauge the heat accurately. Some guys where using pieces of solder around the chip and when they melted they held the gun for a length of time longer to let the heat penetrate the chip.

What should be honestly done is for people to complain to IBM/Lenovo to get a replacement board for this issue. That would be the ultimate aim. A new board, hopefully redesigned. I'll bet they know about it......but it's money out of their pocket to fix so don't be shocked if they resist.

If you flex your system at all it will freeze the screen. Mine would post if I pushed down above the trackpad. It would stay on for however long and then freeze again. Started with the artifacts first.

[ziptron]

after my "sketchy" fix of just pressing down on the chip with my finger while it was on, it seemed to help by taking away the frequency of occurrences, but it still happened every so often. I now raised the front of the computer by putting in a BIC pen underneath the front in order to allow air flow just like gruurly's computer. Its worked fine ALL day with out a single problem.