R31 with strange problem

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r2d2 · #1 Post by **r2d2** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:50 pm

I am having problems installing XP or Linux on this R31. The reason is after formatting the drives, it gets to the point where XP asks you to enter keyboard type, or your user name then suddenly disk activity stops.. no response from keyboard... screen does NOT black out or go BSOD... Sound from the CDROM is like it is retrying to read. I thought at first it was my CD so I changed it to my working copy of PCLinuxOS and the results are the same... hangs after a some time (30 or so minutes).

I noticed also it reaches the hung state faster if I move the pointer frequently or use the keyboard. I replaced keyboard but still the same. Memory test runs OK with no errors for hours. It seems like it gets sick once GUI is started.. I replaced the RAM and HDD but still no improvement.

I searched but somehow I have not found an exact hit. I am just hoping someone here has experienced the same in the past. Thank you and best regards...

R2

phool@round · #2 Post by **phool@round** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:54 pm

Sounds like the processor or the 830MG chip might be overheating...... laptop feel pretty warm? You have an Integrated Graphics Chip in it. Some of the load is being passed off to your processor. If it were a discrete graphics chip nearly all of the GUI load would be on it instead.

Might check your processor cooling, maybe some dust in the exhaust port or in the cooling fan itself. If it uses a pad between the processor and the heat sink it may be hardened and not as efficient. Have a look at it and see.

ajkula66 · #3 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:20 pm

Try removing the mini-PCI card and installing the OS...

r2d2 · #4 Post by **r2d2** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:04 am

Thank you for the replies.

phool@round... yep, I opened up the unit until i was able to remove the fan/heat sink. I also cleaned it and the mobo in the process. I did not proceed with removing the processor from the motherboard, instead after cleaning and removing the old thermal grease, i applied a fresh one and attached the fan/heatsink again on to the processor. Do I need to reseat the processor on the mobo?

George, forgive my ignorance but where is the mini-pci located?

Best regards,

Rosh

vanaya · #5 Post by **vanaya** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:30 am

The Hardware Maintenance Manual will help you with the ins and outs of your model, link.

phool@round · #6 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:44 am

Re-seating the processor isn't necessary.

awong · #7 Post by **awong** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:02 am

mine pci is located on the bottom of the processor under where the speaker, headphone jack are located. it has internal wireless installed? I dont know why, but intel internal wireless cause similar freeze was was described by you in both linux and windows, and the atheros only in windows, but not in linux.

which processor do you have? the original pasting wears out, it makes a difference with hot cool the laptop runs. if yours is a celeron I would recomend replacing it with a PIII 1.13 or 1.2, as I havent had overheating like i had with the celeron (even with the thermal paste)

r2d2 · #8 Post by **r2d2** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:18 pm

I have no mini pci installed. Is this the same as the internal wireless? If yes, I do not see any installed in the location stated in the hardware manual.

As per the manual the 2656-25U has a celeron CPU. I have read in some posts here that they have the same symptoms but for a different model. I cannot find the posts now but it says something about a BGU or video controller stuff. Unfortunately I do not know how to run tests on the video.

Any other ideas or advise on what tests I should run? I am just hoping this is not a dead mobo problem (at least not yet).

phool@round · #9 Post by **phool@round** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:35 am

Is the BIOS up to date?

Any luck attempting to install an OS yet?

r2d2 · #10 Post by **r2d2** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:22 pm

BIOS is not so recent... it is one release lower than the current one. I see 3.10 in BIOS setup. The current one in IBM website is 3.11.

By the looks of it, it seem to be a video controller problem or integrated graphics chip as it hangs when GUI is started for quite some time. At first I thought it was over heating but I opened it up after hanging and the heat sink/CPU is warm but not too hot that burns the hand.

If ever this is an integrated graphics chip problem, will this be corrected by replacing/upgrading processor or total mobo replacement?

phool@round · #11 Post by **phool@round** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:19 pm

I would update the BIOS to the latest available (3.11) and also download the PC Doctor for DOS application. Run all the tests in PC Doctor and see what it reports.

I've heard of an issue where a processor can sometimes cause the hang where it looks like it's the graphics chip. Maybe reseating the processor might be worth doing. Do you have a processor that will drop into your R31 to test with?

Update your BIOS first, then run PC Doctor. Let's see what that does.....

r2d2 · #12 Post by **r2d2** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:46 pm

I tried several times to update bios but failed... until last night. Yesterday I got new floppy disks instead using the old ones at home and finally I was able to update the bios.

I still get the same results (hang after some time esp. with GUI) in BIOS 3.11. Unfortunately I dont have an extra processor to drop into the R31 to isolate the problem.

Speaking of extra processors to fit in R31... what processors would fit into this R31 model? Any specification for the processor (i.e. number of pins, speed, etc...) that I need to know before I explore eBay?

Thank you for the help.

phool@round · #13 Post by **phool@round** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:01 pm

Intel Mobile Pentium III processor 1.00/1.13GHz, Intel Mobile Celeron processor 1.06GHz.

These are the three processors offered within your generation R31.

awong · #14 Post by **awong** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:49 am

r2d2 wrote:I tried several times to update bios but failed... until last night. Yesterday I got new floppy disks instead using the old ones at home and finally I was able to update the bios.

I still get the same results (hang after some time esp. with GUI) in BIOS 3.11. Unfortunately I dont have an extra processor to drop into the R31 to isolate the problem.

Speaking of extra processors to fit in R31... what processors would fit into this R31 model? Any specification for the processor (i.e. number of pins, speed, etc...) that I need to know before I explore eBay?

Thank you for the help.

I may have a 1.00ghz with speedstep for you to try out, pm me if interested, since i am not using it, as I got it in a lot of 3 pack off ebay tutalain processors
1.2ghz off t23 works, just hotter than 1.13 and worse battery life

r2d2 · #15 Post by **r2d2** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:18 pm

I tried PC-Doctor (DOS) and run all tests several times (like 4 hours total). All passed each time. I tried to reinstall XP and still the same... it still hangs during the installation (point where keyboard or user name). I tried PCLinuxOS LiveCD... it was able to boot up just fine but hang after a few minutes.

awong... PM sent... thank you.

phool@round · #16 Post by **phool@round** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:58 pm

Try a non-live version, try Ubuntu, OpenSuSE, or Fedora Core. See what it does.

r2d2 · #17 Post by **r2d2** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:14 pm

I do not have OpenSuse or Fedora at the moment but I tried Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10 using original CDs and I still cannot get it to install. I still get a hang after a few minutes... sometimes I get FWH not detected error message on the screen (also hangs after this message)..

phool@round · #18 Post by **phool@round** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:55 am

The Intel Firmware Hub (Intel FWH) interface consists primarily of a 5-signal communication interface
used to control the operation of the device in a system environment. The buffers for this interface were
designed to be PCI compliant. To ensure the effective delivery of security and manageability features, the
Intel FWH interface is the only way access the full feature set of the device. The Intel FWH interface is
equipped to operate at 33 MHz, synchronous with the PCI bus.

This is a Intel ICH3-M I/O Controller Hub (Intel 82801CAM) and apparently it has an issue which now I can understand why updating the BIOS was difficult. I'm sure this all sounds like Greek to you. (No offense intended to anyone who's Greek....it's an ancient language.)

Have you removed the modem, cd-rom, battery and attempted to install an OS with that equipment removed? I think you may have a suspect system board and really....... one more hail Mary shot is about all I can think of unless someone else knows about this issue. Have you smelled a burnt smell prior to these installs failing? When installing both XP and Linux you are using the CD's kernel and when it tries to pass the control over to your system it chunks. Can you think of anything that happened to the laptop prior to this issue happening or did it just start without any warning.

r2d2 · #19 Post by **r2d2** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:23 pm

Thank you for the reply... (not to mention being so patient)

No I do not notice any burnt smell. This R31 was given to me by a friend who gave up in his attempts in installing an OS. I figured I would continue and work on it as a project ( I feel it a waste to throw a thinkpad away without even trying to find out what's wrong with it). At first I suspect a system board or RAM problem but tests (PC Doctor, MemTest) shows the contrary so I kept my hopes up.

Anyway... I have not tried removing the things you said before installing. I think the idea is worth a try. I will update as soon as I get things done by tonight... when all else fail then I will start looking for a mobo in eBay...

r2d2 · #20 Post by **r2d2** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:15 am

I tried installing XP without modem and battery but I cannot get past the point where I need to enter XP serial number.

I have not tried to boot with CD since I am still trying to install XP in it. Currently thinkpad boots with XP but since install has not yet finished, I have no choice but to put the XP CD in to start installation of devices.

From what I understand from your reply this FWH is part of the system board (a chip on the mobo) and is not integrated with the processor chip... am i correct? I also gather that unlike the processor chip, I cannot just pry this chip out and replace it...

Lastly how or what test can I run at my end to conclusively point that this FWH is the culprit?

r2d2 · #21 Post by **r2d2** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:07 pm

If I need to replace the mobo, are R30 and R31 motherboards interchangeable? I mean can I use an R30 mobo on an R31 casing?

Thanks...

phool@round · #22 Post by **phool@round** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:24 am

Before you replace your system board can you read this page from Intel and see if it helps? http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/i ... 004652.htm

And did you follow these instructions from Lenovo on how to install XP on your laptop? Here.
I don't know if an R30 system board will work in the R31 chassis although the specs are similar to yours for the low end model.

r2d2 · #23 Post by **r2d2** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:04 pm

yup... i pretty much followed the instructions. i guess it is a system board problem after all. but i still keep my hopes up as i am awaiting for a processor to arrive from awong to try and isolate further if it is indeed system board problem and not the processor.

thanks again...

awong · #24 Post by **awong** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:19 am

i believe the r30 has a soldered on cpu unlike the r31

r2d2 · #25 Post by **r2d2** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:39 pm

awong...i got the processor you sent.. thanks you're so kind to help me out... unfortunately i still got the same problem... details follow:

i replaced processor but problem remains the same... i guess this is a motherboard or video chip problem already.

now just out of curiosity, does anyone here know where this video chip is located? I mean how do I find it on the board? Is there a name/label on it that would help me identify?

R31 with strange problem

R31 with strange problem

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