Manually installed XP slow disk access on A31p

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malachont · #1 Post by **malachont** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:43 pm

Hi all...

some time ago my A31p disk died (80GB 4200rpm, 512mb had the factory installed win2k, Fat32 image on it). After buying a new 80GB WD 5400rpm, I decided to install XP on NTFS. I didn't have the Thinkpad Image for this but went according to the driver matrix in Lenovo's web page and installed all the XP drivers, then started the lenovo software to download all the updates automatically, 1.30 Lenovo Supplements for XP, and of course all of the XP updates (up to and excluding sp3). I immediately noticed that the disk access is like 4-5 times slower than in win2k for example, the hibernate takes about 5 minutes until it turns off whereas before it was about 30 seconds. I installed the Intel INF tool for the thinkpad (from intel's web site) but it didn't help any.

Perhaps it is the NTFS?

I have exactly the same software setup as before (i.e. no new applications) and even the same partition setup- one big partition and permanent 1.5gb swapfile. (Except its NTFS now). Should I try to convert to FAT32 or install the intel application accelerator?
thanks

sarbin · #2 Post by **sarbin** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:59 pm

open the device manager, expand the ide ata/atapi controllers branch and then double-click the primary ide channel. assuming this hd is the only one in the system, what do you see under device 0?

malachont · #3 Post by **malachont** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:45 am

Thanks for your response...
I see this:
Device type: auto detection (grayed)
Transfer mode: DMA if available
Current transfer mode: Ultra DMA Mode 5

ps Above 'primary ide channel' I also have something called 'Intel 82801CAM Ultra ATA Storage controller-248A'

sarbin · #4 Post by **sarbin** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:40 am

ok, ultra dma mode 5 is what you want. sometimes it gets stuck in pio mode and that's slow.

i can't get at the device driver download site right now, but i seem to recall that there are a couple of windows supplemental driver packs that specifically mention being required for a non-recovery install. did you install them a part of your driver loads? i think one of the fixes was an ide/apm patch.

i'll look around here to see if i've got 'em laying around somewhere.

sarbin · #5 Post by **sarbin** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:04 pm

ok.
ibm is back up. here's what i was referring to:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 40004.html

This package contains following support of INTEL 82801/82830 chipset for Microsoft Windows 98/Me/2000/XP.

- To detect and configure the INTEL 82801/82830 controller
- To avoid resource conflict with IDE controller in APM mode
- To allocate resource to ThinkPad Dock correctly.

The following ThinkPad computers are supported:
- ThinkPad A30, A30p, A31, A31p
- ThinkPad s31 (supports Microsoft Windows Me/2000/XP only.)
- ThinkPad T23
- ThinkPad T30*
- ThinkPad X22, X23, x24

NOTE: If you use the product Disk-to-disk or CD recovery option that shipped with your ThinkPad system to restore the Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows Me, Microsoft Windows 2000, or Microsoft Windows XP preload environment, you do not need this package. This package is required when you install a Microsoft Windows operating system without using the product recovery option.

malachont · #6 Post by **malachont** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:30 pm

Actually I already installed this...
Anything else?

could it really not be just the NTFS?

sarbin · #7 Post by **sarbin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:19 pm

well i'm baffled.

i've never seen the ntfs slowness you describe on any of my thinkpads and i've run it on all of them except the 380 and the 600. the t22 ran retail xp with only 384mb ram and was still pretty snappy. all the rest were factory images out of the box. the a31p has been reinstalled from ibm recovery disks several times since then as i've upgraded hard drives and the t43 was just reinstalled from the recovery partition after i got it from ajkula66.

maybe someone else can weigh in here and help us...

basketb · #8 Post by **basketb** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:04 pm

I've only seen the described performance degradation once in a HD I installed in the 2nd HD ultrabay adapter and the solution was the already mentioned ultra DMA vs. PIO issue.

Win XP with all the correct drivers should not perform as badly as you described on an A31p. This leads me to believe that there is a (hardware) problem with the new hard disk. Have you tested it?

ajkula66 · #9 Post by **ajkula66** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:31 pm

A couple of things here:

a) 512Mb is nowhere near enough to run XP on an A31p properly. You need a gig.

b) XP updates are a waste and slow the machine down IMHO.

c) You can't run XP on a FAT partition, so that conversion is not possible.

d) Try running XP in the "classic" mode.

Personally, I'd wipe everything and start clean, installing only what I really need-that's the way I run my A31p units, at least. You'd probably be surprised if I told you that apart from video card, power manager and hotkey features I don't add anything from Lenovo's site. And I'd definitely stay away from SP3 since I have yet to hear anything good about it...

My $0.02 only...

malachont · #10 Post by **malachont** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:29 am

As far as I know it is possible to run XP on FAT32. It just requires some third party formatter before installation or something like that.

512mb should be enough as I haven't installed any of the Lenovo heavy hitter applications (Access connections etc) but the bare minimum drivers for power, video and other mobile features. After it loads on boot it leaves about 256mb left for apps (thats after skype, avast residents)

I think it has to do with the installation not being from an A31p official image CD but a "hand made" one. I'm convinced that there is some secret in that CD that quadruples drive speed.

Perhaps there is some diskbench software we can both run to compare XP A31p standard access speeds between a custom image and a Thinkpad image install?

thanks

BeeJayEmm · #11 Post by **BeeJayEmm** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:39 pm

This probably isn't relevant but I had a Compaq Presario 1700 notebook (before I came to my senses with ThinkPads

). It came with Win ME (everybody say BOO!!) on FAT32 and I wanted to do a clean install of XP. I tried using NTFS on the disk and had similar agonizingly slow access times (XP boot was a good five minutes or more). Through research, I learned that Compaq put part of the BIOS on the hard disk, in their infinite wisdom. I think it was to discourage upgrading without their OK. Anyway, when I did an XP upgrade from ME, maintaining the FAT32 file system on the disk, the slow access problem was solved (I didn't try a FAT32 clean install). I don't know (and rather doubt) that IBM ever engaged in such tomfoolery. XP can definitely run on FAT32 in this situation.

ajkula66 · #12 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:05 pm

Well...

IBM's recovery disks for A31p suck IMHO. I'll gladly burn you a set if you think that it's going to solve your problem.

I'm running XP from a retail copy, SP2, very slimmed down. And I have never seen anything close to what you're describing. It may be that the very disk you have has some type of a hidden mine field in it...

I stand by what I've stated about running XP with less than a gig of RAM on an A31p, but to each his/hers own. Personally, I have 2Gb and it feels good, especially in Linux, but that's a whole another topic.

Let me know if you need these disks.

Good luck.

sarbin · #13 Post by **sarbin** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:12 pm

ajkula66 wrote:Well...

IBM's recovery disks for A31p suck IMHO.

is it just because of the 'extra' stuff that gets installed? or is there some other reason?

i've used my recovery set several times as i've upgraded my n5u's hard drives over the years. seems pretty convenient...

ajkula66 · #14 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:47 pm

I can't put my finger on what exactly it is, but I've been much more pleased with retail version, found it faster and easier to tweak.

Once again, I load a bare minimum of drivers, and run XP as slimmed as possible. Maybe that's just what I'm used to. But, honestly, ever since I've loaded Mint as a dual boot, I don't find myself using Windows at all...

sarbin · #15 Post by **sarbin** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:41 pm

"Mint" ?
is that a version of linux?

ajkula66 · #16 Post by **ajkula66** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:46 pm

Yes, it's a fairly recent distro based on Ubuntu, and so far my favourite one...and I'm not a Linux expert by any stretch of imagination...

sarbin · #17 Post by **sarbin** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:51 pm

oh boy, now you've got my curiousity going. i've got extra hds laying around and i may have to try an experiment or three...

agarza · #18 Post by **agarza** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:46 pm

Maybe your HDD is bad formatted. Every time I reinstall Windows on any of my Thinkpad (actually only one, the retired A22e is for family use) is using DFT to wipe completely the disk, this, and also it ensures that no bad sectors are being used when attempting to format the drive.
The just use PartitionMagic 8 to manually create a Windows XP 3.1 partition. And next, to install Windows.

fasterbybike · #19 Post by **fasterbybike** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:15 am

Did you ever get your HDD to perform at an acceptable speed ?

In any case you might want to read this article.

Interesting

Manually installed XP slow disk access on A31p

Manually installed XP slow disk access on A31p

IDE settings..

IDE settings..

hmm

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