R61 temperature issues - maybe overheating?

[madkat]

Having the R61 in my signature - for couple of weeks - it runs very smooth, quiet, and most of the time cool (40-48 degrees celsius)

But sometimes - during demanding tasks or multitasking (like now, downloading, browsing, and several windows explorers open) it reaches up to 85 degrees (according to NHC) ... that is when the processor runs at 60-100% ...

The machine has an Intel Gpu - so that is not reason for overheating.
Could it be that the ibm tecnicians (replaced the mobo - with this intel one - under warranty) forgot to apply thermal grease? - or there could be something else wrong?

I am asking you this before opening up my "new" thinkpad, in order to apply Arctic Silver 5...

[RealBlackStuff]

Could it be that the ibm tecnicians (replaced the mobo - with this intel one - under warranty) forgot to apply thermal grease?
I am asking you this before opening up my "new" thinkpad, in order to apply Arctic Silver 5...

I wouldn't be surprised if they just re-used the old thermal paste...
Open it up and apply fresh thermal paste.

[Tõnis]

What RBS says about them using the old thermal paste is certainly cause for concern. I was relieved when my second replacement fan came with the thermal grease already applied. (The first one didn't, and I had to apply it, guessing how much is enough.) The hardware manual for my R61 says to use exactly 0.2 grams of thermal grease. It says if there's too little (or too much!), "you will have heat problems." The counter guy at a major retailer's tech support counter told me to make sure the layer of thermal grease is "paper thin," but I found the stuff to be more like a paste. How does one make it paper thin? And even then, is it exactly 0.2 grams? The grease on the factory fan came in in a tiny-dotted matrix/pattern.

[RealBlackStuff]

The general consensus is to use about the size of a rice corn.
Spread that out evenly, using e.g. a credit card or razor blade.
Remove any excess on the sides.

[madkat]

On all my previous (an current except this R61) i've applied myself the thermal grease - if the application method (for a core2 duo) is the same as for a single-core processor, i can do it without any problems.
I've asked first because i wasn't eager to open up a machine so "new" to me - If it were a T4x or R5x, i would have opened it up immediately

Maybe even tonight i i'm not too tired - i'll do the operation

[madkat]

Ok, opened the beast up...
Just as i and @RBS thought - old and insufficient thermal grease ... and some thermal pad applied on the contact area for the GPU and CPU ... not sure it's supposed to be there - since it's my first 6x series Thinkpad...
some pictures:

http://tinypic.com/r/2cpb0xh/4
http://tinypic.com/r/2lbmb8y/4

actions taken - cleaned up the contact surfaces and applied AS5 ... the result is kinda' ok - it seems a little cooler - it didn't reach more than 75 degrees - under load.
for my taste is still too much - is it supposed to work that hot (a core2 duo - that is) ... or should i replace that thermal pads with some copper plates? or leave it like it is now?

edit: looked up some pictures of R61 T60 - and it seems that on NEW ones - there is NO thermal pad - only droplets of thermal paste preapplied - so in mu case the thermal pad is not necessary? This question is adressed for those of you that have seen an original fan/heatsink setup in a R61/T60.
thanks

[Merc]

You shouldn't have both a thermal pad AND thermal paste pn a chip. If I remember correctly, on my R61e I used Arctic Silver Ceramique on the CPU and a pad o the GPU. My T7300 runs runs fairly hot too but has never gotten above 76c. TJmax on these chips is 100c and 85c is to close for comfort.

[madkat]

Thought so too...
I'll remove the pad and see if the heatsink makes contact with the CPU - only with thermal paste.

[Merc]

I went back and looked at my thread on replacing the CPU in an R61e. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56960 There was no pad on my NB chip, just a thick layer of paste. A slim pad would work but looks like thermal paste is how OEM does it. Personally, I use Ceramique as it is completely non-conductive for chips with bare contacts in the area.

[madkat]

Yes, but if you look at my pictures - you'll see that i have a T60 fan - which is a little different - it doesnt have plastic housing - is all copper
But - as you are saying - OEM uses in both cases Thermal grease only - so i'll do just that (not ceramique, since i have some AS5 handy)

Keep you posted as soon as i'll do the "operation"

edit: @Merc - thanks for the link - great info and pics for an R6x noob.

[Merc]

No problem.

[madkat]

Followed the advice - removed ALL thermal pads and thermal paste, cleaned thoroughly the CPU and GPU.
After that applied a little of cheap grease on the corners of the contact areas of the GPU and CPU - to see if they make contact with the heatsink (without thermal pad)
Found out that the CPU is ok, put the GPU still needs a pad...
Cleaned everything again, and then - applied Arctic Silver on the processor, and thermal pad on the heatsink in the area needed to touch the GPU.

After that - there is a difference - it idles under and around 40, under load around 60-65, and under maximum load i could "inflict" jumped to 80+ but cooled down to under 80 quite quickly. In all loads - it cools down more rapidly after temp peaks.

Still - i'm not happy enough... it still should run cooler - i think the T60 fan i've got (the fru can be seen in the pictures above) it is not powerful enough for the processor i,ve got...

[Merc]

Arctic Silver takes a few cycles to set. Give it a week or so and it should drop a few degrees. As far as the fan, iu don't think there is much we can do as these things are sesigned to fit in that space and I don't think there is any aftermarket that will work. If you find a more powerful alternative please let me know as I'd like to get things to run cooler as well. One thing that torques me is that we can't tell the fan to run faster. That would help a lot.

[madkat]

Ok, got from the previous owner (great guy, btw) the original fan assembly - FRU 42W2780 - it is bigger, bulkier, thicker heatpipes and bigger radiators, bigger rotor.

the result - it seems that under load 95-100% cpu usage - with the T60 copper fan - it reaches over 80 (85 degrees) - with the original R61 fan it reaches 57-58 degrees with peaks of 60 (under the same load as above)

conclusion - the T60 fan was not nearly enough for a cord2 duo, even thoug according to the FRU - it can be found in similar spec'd T60s ...
so, problem solved - an R61 core2 duo T7250 work fine with the "stock" fan (of course, provided it's clean of dust bunnies and thermal paste is appropiately applied.

some pictures of the R61 fan - you can compare it with the T60 fan - from the pics several posts above.

http://tinypic.com/r/2pqtlia/4
http://tinypic.com/r/2mfdroh/4
http://tinypic.com/r/2dvvodk/4

[goofyGAguy]

One thing that torques me is that we can't tell the fan to run faster. That would help a lot.

Have you tried installing ThinkPad Fan Control? Under 100% CPU load it runs my fan at a far faster R.P.M. than the BIOS ever did.

[madkat]

TP fan control is the next thing i'll do to my R61
because even at under 40 degrees (CPU) the fan continues to run, even at a low speed

[madkat]

not yet installed TP fan control - but after several days - the AS-5 settled, and the machine runs even cooler - around 36 at idle an a maximum of 55 under load - with a peak of 60 under ery heavy load.
So the solution - was only to reinstall the original fan - for anyone interested - T60 fan is NOT enough for a core2duo.

[madkat]

An year have passed by
Workinq fine, no chance of overheating, even at oauside temperatures of above 35 degrees celsius.
Only one thing is weird, the fan runs a lot, even reaching 35-40 degrees (according to NHC) it still runs.