R51 vs R52 in general, and sxga+ compatibility

[eyestrain]

For 15" intel graphics models.

Some but not all intel graphics 15" LCD R51s will run an SXGA+ LCD? But all R52s will, or only some?

If I bought a 15" XGA intel graphics R51 or R52 used, which would be more likely to work with an SXGA+ screen and cable?

Also, any thoughts on differences in general? Have read there's only a 5% speed increase from the newer cpu and memory. DDR2 is cheaper. Is one model quieter? Better made? More reliable? R52 is newer, so bumped around fewer years.

[ZaZ]

What's your budget if you don't mind my asking?

[eyestrain]

Well I already bought the screen, in fact an entire R51 ati with sxga+ 15". Hasn't arrived yet, I hope the screen is good. I plan to buy an intel model for $50-$100 shipped, depending how much trouble I want with "untested" stuff on ebay, then swap screens, and sell the ati one, especially if the ati "untested" motherboard works.

I also will likely buy an intel graphics R60 or T60, and either do similar to above, or try upgrading the screen with an Idtech from a T42p. UXGA.

I'd like to have one computer that is mostly quiet even without undervolting and underfanning. T23 is pretty good, but slow. X41t is much louder than I thought it could be.

The other computers should be able to be completely silent with undervolting and underfanning, and my belief, and very recent experience, is that the Pentium M is far better than Core chips for this. There was some discussion on this here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=85938 (I don't want to repeat myself against double posting rules, but am happy to discuss more.)

[ZaZ]

I also will likely buy an intel graphics R60 or T60, and either do similar to above, or try upgrading the screen with an Idtech from a T42p. UXGA.

That will most likely not work. The R60 and T60 need a panel with the EDID chip. You'd need a screen from a T60 for both the R60 and T60. Either can drive the UXGA screen on the Intel GPU. I have the SXGA+ in my R60. It works quite well.

[RealBlackStuff]

AFAIK all 15" R51s with SXGA+ have an ATI GPU. There were no models ex factory with Intel GPU/SXGA+.

OTOH: every 15" R52 (both with ATA and Intel GPU) can run SXGA+.
If you are lucky, you might even snag an IPS FlexView SXGA+ screen. I have an R52/Intel with one of those, and it's amazing!

So, to answer your question, you'd need to buy a 15" SXGA+ R51/ATI and a 15" XGA R52/Intel, unless you can find this rare R52/Intel/SXGA+ unit.

Intel models generally run cooler, and in a 15" chassis they run even cooler again!
The fan in my R52 is only on when it starts up, and quiet for the rest of the time. No TPFancontrol or anything.

Of course the R52 produces the 2010 Error (same as in T43), but that's just a minor annoyance at bootup.
There's a more modern construction in the R52 motherboard than in the R51/T4x. FSB 533 vs. FSB 400.
Faster DDR2 PC4200 RAM vs. DDR PC2700.
CPUs with larger L2 cache.
Combine that with an SSD or quiet fast HD, and it's an easy choice.

Then there is the price level: for not much more you might get a 15" T60 with Intel/SXGA+.
Advantage: SATA drives and faster CPU/RAM.

[eyestrain]

That will most likely not work. The R60 and T60 need a panel with the EDID chip.

I think Idtech can have the chip. I can't find the thread where a few people said they tried T42p Idtech screens in T/R60, and it worked, no flashing required. One person who put a wrong screen in did blow a motherboard fuse though, I hope that's cheap to replace if I do that.

[ajkula66]

eyestrain wrote:

I think Idtech can have the chip. I can't find the thread where a few people said they tried T42p Idtech screens in T/R60, and it worked, no flashing required. One person who put a wrong screen in did blow a motherboard fuse though, I hope that's cheap to replace if I do that.

The problem here is that you won't know right off the bat whether the screen will work, or blow the board. And there's nothing cheap about damaging one's motherboard. These fuses are not meant to be user-replaceable.

Try locating a Hydis screen, if you're after UXGA, or LG Phillips SXGA+. Peace of mind does pay in the longer run...

[eyestrain]

OTOH: every 15" R52 (both with ATA and Intel GPU) can run SXGA+.

Good, that's what George also said in the other thread. (Hi George, your'e much faster than me, I'm finishing off an already partly typed post, and you post in here!

However, I'm favoring a 15" intel R51, and haven't seen anyone say outright that all of those do support 15" sxga+, and IIRC old posts seemed iffy. I might just risk it though.

Sorry if I'm ignoring advice so far. But from my research I don't think the R51 vs R52 speed difference will affect me. And the R51 has a lowest speed of 600mhz vs 800mhz iirc, which should lead to better quieting. DDR2 memory idles at lower power, but DDR2 memory controllers use more power. Finally the R51's cpu TDP is significantly lower, so maybe the fan design is quieter. Unless there were some change in R52 like a much better heatsink, cooling pipe design, etc, that overcame any extra heat, which would have probably been less than the TDP would imply.

The fan in my R52 is only on when it starts up, and quiet for the rest of the time. No TPFancontrol or anything.

Thanks, that helps, even stronger than what George said in other thread about intel T43. I know I'm going the right way. And R52 will be a good fallback. I might have bought one of each to compare W or temp, but already have too many to sell, see my sig!

Then there is the price level: for not much more you might get a 15" T60 with Intel/SXGA+.

I'm finding a significant difference on ebay, maybe because I'm willing to deal with iffy hardware. Been buying several computers in search for a few perfect laptops, so trying hard to buy cheaply to sell without loss. Still, I'll buy one T60 intel.

[eyestrain]

The problem here is that you won't know right off the bat whether the screen will work, or blow the board. And there's nothing cheap about damaging one's motherboard. These fuses are not meant to be user-replaceable.

Bad news for me. I bought a T42p partly for its screen. It is cool and quiet when undervolted, unlike ati T60. Not sure I want to worry about GPU. I may keep it and try hard to baby it, not sure yet.

Is there still any supply of QXGA screens? From old posts, they seemed so cheap a while ago, under $150 new, sometimes with pressure marks, sometimes not. I have to call the place with the used $59 ones. Supposedly. I won't mind some small defects, especially if it isn't my main computer.

I also wouldn't mind a BOE Hydis, and have an R/T60 intel with it become the main computer. But only if I found one cheap enough. Haven't seen that so far.

[RealBlackStuff]

However, I'm favoring a 15" intel R51, and haven't seen anyone say outright that all of those do support 15" sxga+, and IIRC old posts seemed iffy. I might just risk it though.

AFAIK the 15" R51/Intel does NOT support SXGA+. That's R52/Intel territory!
You'd be wasting your time/money.

[underclocker]

Some notes;

1) You can find SXGA+ R60's in the $250 range (I just sold a really nice one with remaining warranty for $275 delivered via the marketplace); they'll run cool and quiet.

2) I doubt any R51 LCDs have the EDID chip, unless the LCD was replaced under warranty or by the owner with a newer LCD (which is possible)

3) Some R52 LCDs do have the EDID chip.

4) You can find out if the EDID chip is present by visually inspected the back of the LCD panel - either you'll see the chip or an empty area where it should be.

5) R52's generally run cool, but when the fan is on, it is louder than an R51. R51's are quiet.

[schen]

I've gotten in on this a little late, but I might be able to offer some assistence since Eyestrain is in Plano. As you can see, I'm located in Forney, which is a bit out of the way, but not too bad.

As related to the OP; my wife and I have been down the R51 to R52, Intel vs. ATI, SXGA+ vs. XGA screen Flexview vs. Non-Flexview road. Currently we have 3 15" Flexview equipped machines of/or close to that generation in our house: a T43p, a T42, and an R52. The current R52 is an ATI chipped machine which received it's SXGA+ screen from the previous Intel chipped R52 that it replaced. I don't believe that the Intel chipped R52 came originally with the SXGA+ screen either.

If you want to sit down and physically look at and or open up some them, your welcome to give me a call and we can set a time to get together. Just PM me and I'll reply with my number. The Ts & Rs of that generation are something of a specialty for me, although you can see by my sig that other stuff gets my attention as well!

[eyestrain]

AFAIK the 15" R51/Intel does NOT support SXGA+. That's R52/Intel territory!

There's another Sr. Thinkpadder here who posts that with the SXGA+ cable and inverter, R51 15" is ok, but not 14". Anyone who's succeeded or failed, or a third opinion? Wish I were better at diplomacy... I am thankful for all advice, and don't want to start an argument, just get a feel for likelihood of R51 working. If it doesn't, could always sell that one too, or maybe use it in XGA or, via VGA, in WUXGA if possible.

underclocker, thanks, some helpful info. I'm posting a WTB.

I guess when I get an intel-R/T60, I could open up the T42p top and look for the chip, and if it's there, do the swap.

I don't suppose moninfo or such has enough info to say if the chip is there.

schen, Thanks very much. I've sent a PM.

All, Thanks for the help.

I know some of you think I should just do 2 R60's, though I'm planning on doing 1 R60, 1 R51/2. It's not just the M being more undervoltable, and R5x cheaper. I have one NMB T42p KB which I love. Different than 770e, but the first I like nearly as much. I want to use it! Also have a Dock II which might make Acronis backups or clones a little easier, with 2 ultrabays at the same time, not via USB. Could buy an advanced dock, but still expensive.