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i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
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i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
I saw mention online that new new Intel i7 SEVENTH generation processors, the ones that are "new" now, will not or cannot run Windows7. So users buying a 7th gen i7 are forced to buy into a new OS as well, like it or not.
Can anyone confirm or refute this for me? Or are there tricks to getting Win7 to run on the new processors? (I must be a cynic, I can't see how or why this should be,)
Can anyone confirm or refute this for me? Or are there tricks to getting Win7 to run on the new processors? (I must be a cynic, I can't see how or why this should be,)
"The only good silicon life form, is a dead silicon life form." [Will Rogers]
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
I don't think you'd be barred from installing it, but I believe there will be no support from Microsoft to run Windows 7 or 8.1 on Kaby Lake and newer hardware, which means no Windows Update. Then there's the issue of drivers too. If Microsoft isn't supporting it, are you going to be able to get drivers? I don't know. The reasoning behind it is as the OS ages, it becomes less secure, so they'd rather have people upgrade to a newer more secure OS.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
From what I've been reading overnight, it is actually a financial decision from Microsoft. Apparently there are new USB port drivers, which are part of the reason for USB-C and Thunderbolt and greatly improved charging rates and data speeds. Those new ports of course didn't exist when Win7 was being written, and since MS doesn't want to spend money writing new drivers for the old OS...there will be problems like "Well, the OS runs but it can't use the data and power ports." Ooops.
Much cheaper to force users to buy into a new OS than to support the old one. (Of course that's nothing new, that was part of the reason MS killed off "Windows" 9x to force the migration to the NT code base.) But still...you'd figure some hardware drivers wouldn't have cost them THAT much.
Apparently even the 6th generation Core cpu systems will only support Win7 to a certain extent, with a specific list of machines that will be supported to run it for a limited time (just passed) and now, whether it will run depends on exactly what hardware is involved. Some of the new memory and video (higher res) hardware also won't have older drivers written for it.
Not that I would mind so much, but for me Win10 has been too problematic. Too many little things being buried, locked down, made less accessible. I may just have to live with slower ports and charging.(G)
Much cheaper to force users to buy into a new OS than to support the old one. (Of course that's nothing new, that was part of the reason MS killed off "Windows" 9x to force the migration to the NT code base.) But still...you'd figure some hardware drivers wouldn't have cost them THAT much.
Apparently even the 6th generation Core cpu systems will only support Win7 to a certain extent, with a specific list of machines that will be supported to run it for a limited time (just passed) and now, whether it will run depends on exactly what hardware is involved. Some of the new memory and video (higher res) hardware also won't have older drivers written for it.
Not that I would mind so much, but for me Win10 has been too problematic. Too many little things being buried, locked down, made less accessible. I may just have to live with slower ports and charging.(G)
"The only good silicon life form, is a dead silicon life form." [Will Rogers]
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
Won't be long before Windows 10 is replaced with Windows. Just Windows. No 11 or 20. Just my prediction.
10 is a piece of [censored] and I will never use it. This is a reason for me to use Linux instead should I be using a new Thinkpad.
Or get the AMD versions? Do they support 7?
10 is a piece of [censored] and I will never use it. This is a reason for me to use Linux instead should I be using a new Thinkpad.
Or get the AMD versions? Do they support 7?
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
"10 is a piece of [censored] and I will never use it."
All well and good. If you ever have to work with the corporate world...or in any small business, or medical offices, or a whole lot of other places? Ah, yeah, you'll never work there, because the world runs Windows. Not iOS, not Linux, just Windows in the world of business and office users in general. Of course if you used real UNIX and not a toy version like Linux, you could also get big bucks from a utility company or other serious computer user.(G)
But for many people, fluency with Windows and moreso with Windows apps, is a necessity, not an option. Even little deviations like trying to use LibreOffice instead of MSOffice can be impractical, because the minor compatibility issues befuddle so many folks.
Doesn't make it the best choice for everyone, does make it *necessary* for many.
All well and good. If you ever have to work with the corporate world...or in any small business, or medical offices, or a whole lot of other places? Ah, yeah, you'll never work there, because the world runs Windows. Not iOS, not Linux, just Windows in the world of business and office users in general. Of course if you used real UNIX and not a toy version like Linux, you could also get big bucks from a utility company or other serious computer user.(G)
But for many people, fluency with Windows and moreso with Windows apps, is a necessity, not an option. Even little deviations like trying to use LibreOffice instead of MSOffice can be impractical, because the minor compatibility issues befuddle so many folks.
Doesn't make it the best choice for everyone, does make it *necessary* for many.
"The only good silicon life form, is a dead silicon life form." [Will Rogers]
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
Yet another reason to move away from those Micro$hafters altogether...
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
So, first of all, this post is a flamewar in the making. Calling Linux a "toy" or libreoffice a "deviation" is nothing else, especially typed within a webpage hosted by a server running Linux. While the "corporate world" of yours may indeed be running Windows, there's an important minority running many FOSS systems exclusively, for example universities (especially CS/engineering/math departments). You're making a detestable argument "everybody is doing it, so why can't we". Well, "everybody" may be wrong.hellosailor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 pm"10 is a piece of [censored] and I will never use it."
All well and good. If you ever have to work with the corporate world...or in any small business, or medical offices, or a whole lot of other places? Ah, yeah, you'll never work there, because the world runs Windows. Not iOS, not Linux, just Windows in the world of business and office users in general. Of course if you used real UNIX and not a toy version like Linux, you could also get big bucks from a utility company or other serious computer user.(G)
But for many people, fluency with Windows and moreso with Windows apps, is a necessity, not an option. Even little deviations like trying to use LibreOffice instead of MSOffice can be impractical, because the minor compatibility issues befuddle so many folks.
Doesn't make it the best choice for everyone, does make it *necessary* for many.
Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals 1920:
Happy Windows using!"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."
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X320/i7-2620M/8GB/256gb.ssd/FHD13.3''IPS/debian_testing (ex-main driver)
T30Pentium-M 4 1.8Ghz 512MB RAM - under restoration
X230/i5/8GB/500gb.hdd+256gb.m2ssd/IPS/debian_stable+win7
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
You missed the official Microsoft announcement back in 2015? Windows 10 is the final version of Windows. See http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
So folks, if you hate Windows 10, switch to something else if you can, or learn to like it. Bashing it on this forum won't accomplish anything. My work requires various Windows-only software and so I am stuck with Windows, but that's fine because I like Windows 10 a lot, more than 7 and XP actually.
Dell Latitude 7370 (QHD+, 2.84lb); HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (1920x1280, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (1920x1280, 2.00lb);
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600); Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Crossover 404K; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600); Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Crossover 404K; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
I'll use 7 till my T500 dies. Then I'll get a W541 and use 7 on that until that dies. Then what? Maybe an A475 with 7, or Linux (particularly, lovely Ubuntu) on anything Intel newer than Kaby Lake since 10 requires so much gimping (disabling the updates, eugh) to get working right to my preferences, it's barely 10 anymore! I don't need Microsoft holding my hand and updating my computer for me. I just need something to play my music, write stuff, watch Youtube/Twitch, play old games. If I get a virus, which I won't, reinstall and keep working and the SLIC table activates it. That's why I use 7. And MS Word, it's a lot better than LibreOffice.
I don't work in software development, plenty of people do that already. My place is with hardware.
I don't work in software development, plenty of people do that already. My place is with hardware.
What don't you get about my using 7? 7 is a Windows last time I started it. Plenty of corporate systems still use 7. The British use XP.hellosailor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:10 pmAll well and good. If you ever have to work with the corporate world...or in any small business, or medical offices, or a whole lot of other places? Ah, yeah, you'll never work there, because the world runs Windows. Not iOS, not Linux, just Windows in the world of business and office users in general. Of course if you used real UNIX and not a toy version like Linux, you could also get big bucks from a utility company or other serious computer user.(G)
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
ROTFLMAO
Indeed they do.Plenty of corporate systems still use 7.
Now with this one you blew my mind and that's not easily done...The British use XP.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
The team lead who handles Win images procurement in my company told me this exactly earlier in the week. The question I have is, can W7 be run as a VM on the 7th gen hardware? Conceivably windows users could run Linux with VirtualBox if need be. This is something I want to toy with myself in general.hellosailor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:12 pmI saw mention online that new new Intel i7 SEVENTH generation processors, the ones that are "new" now, will not or cannot run Windows7. So users buying a 7th gen i7 are forced to buy into a new OS as well, like it or not.
Thinkpads: X395, X301, X230, W530, W701 "Astra"
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Dell: Precision 5520 Xeon "LucieX"
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
AFAIK you can still install and run W7 there, but Micro$haft Update for W7 on those CPUs is already -or will be- blocked soon.
So no more security updates.
Keep an eye on the new A275 or A475 with AMD CPU, they might still work with W7...
Regardless, start looking for a different OS.
So no more security updates.
Keep an eye on the new A275 or A475 with AMD CPU, they might still work with W7...
Regardless, start looking for a different OS.
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
Consider the limits of virtual machines, regardless of OS.
For something like communicating over a USB3.1 port, unless there is code in the virtual machine that allows that hardware to be used, it will be inaccessible. And with WIn7 being unable to access some of the new hardware, that could be problematic. Personally I don't know how much of the new hardware (4K screens, faster drive access, USB3.1 ports, etc.) will be supported in the VM's.
It is also apparent that Intel (and others?) and MS are playing a very careful and clever game. Legally, if they shut out the old OS from the new CPU's, they might find themselves in hot water. Some years ago I had a problem with a large vendor of financial software. We'd consulted with them before buying a new network (25 desktops) and they said "any Pentium-class CPU" so we saved $100 per station by using IBM CPU's instead of Intel. Then a year or two down the line, installing a routine monthly patch, the message came up "Not a Pentium CPU, can't update!"
I got through to the corporate counsel at Intel and he said "Gee, Pentium is OUR trademark, and we sure don't know what "Pentium class" means, either it is or it isn't a Pentium. Ask that vendor to give us a call if they have any further questions about that." Uh, yeah, the software vendor paid to a have all 25 CPU's replaced and extend our service subscription for an extra year.
So I think Intel and the others are very much aware that if they LOCKED OUT the older OS, they'd also quickly be in court. Instead, they are simply agreeing with Microsoft, that the older OSes will not receive the necessary patches and updates to work with the new hardware, and that they aren't releasing any hardware "legacy emulators" to let the old OSes work on it, either.
Kinda like "No, I didn't kill the dog, I just stopped feeding it."
A clever fine line in the sand. And as Shakespeare said, a pox on both their houses!
For something like communicating over a USB3.1 port, unless there is code in the virtual machine that allows that hardware to be used, it will be inaccessible. And with WIn7 being unable to access some of the new hardware, that could be problematic. Personally I don't know how much of the new hardware (4K screens, faster drive access, USB3.1 ports, etc.) will be supported in the VM's.
It is also apparent that Intel (and others?) and MS are playing a very careful and clever game. Legally, if they shut out the old OS from the new CPU's, they might find themselves in hot water. Some years ago I had a problem with a large vendor of financial software. We'd consulted with them before buying a new network (25 desktops) and they said "any Pentium-class CPU" so we saved $100 per station by using IBM CPU's instead of Intel. Then a year or two down the line, installing a routine monthly patch, the message came up "Not a Pentium CPU, can't update!"
I got through to the corporate counsel at Intel and he said "Gee, Pentium is OUR trademark, and we sure don't know what "Pentium class" means, either it is or it isn't a Pentium. Ask that vendor to give us a call if they have any further questions about that." Uh, yeah, the software vendor paid to a have all 25 CPU's replaced and extend our service subscription for an extra year.
So I think Intel and the others are very much aware that if they LOCKED OUT the older OS, they'd also quickly be in court. Instead, they are simply agreeing with Microsoft, that the older OSes will not receive the necessary patches and updates to work with the new hardware, and that they aren't releasing any hardware "legacy emulators" to let the old OSes work on it, either.
Kinda like "No, I didn't kill the dog, I just stopped feeding it."
A clever fine line in the sand. And as Shakespeare said, a pox on both their houses!
"The only good silicon life form, is a dead silicon life form." [Will Rogers]
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
I don't believe it.RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:36 pmAFAIK you can still install and run W7 there, but Micro$haft Update for W7 on those CPUs is already -or will be- blocked soon.
It's just the fact that Intel will not release drivers for the platform.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
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Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
"Micro$haft Update for W7"
Especially since that will never happen again, according to MS.
A general update, i.e. a Service Pack, is n longer going to happen. That's part of regular support for an OS and this one is already in the grave.
There may be security patches, but it would be a waste of time and money for any chip maker to actively "block" updates on OSes that are no longer going to have them issued. And a good place to get sued, if they blocked *security* patches.
Not writing new hardware drives is all it takes to kill an OS. Really, anyone remember DOS? Ever try to configure a DOS/Windows dual boot system, with a DOS network driver and a DOS CD driver on the machine? You couldn't do it, unless you played with expanded(?) memory allocation and pushing the drivers into high memory, because DOS couldn't handle both drivers at once in conventional memory. So, if you wanted full use of the hardware...DOS was dead. And the now-ubiquitous USB port? Right, never happened in DOS.
This time it is just happening a little faster and louder. (Or, faster but more silently?) And arguably with no really good reasons.
Especially since that will never happen again, according to MS.
A general update, i.e. a Service Pack, is n longer going to happen. That's part of regular support for an OS and this one is already in the grave.
There may be security patches, but it would be a waste of time and money for any chip maker to actively "block" updates on OSes that are no longer going to have them issued. And a good place to get sued, if they blocked *security* patches.
Not writing new hardware drives is all it takes to kill an OS. Really, anyone remember DOS? Ever try to configure a DOS/Windows dual boot system, with a DOS network driver and a DOS CD driver on the machine? You couldn't do it, unless you played with expanded(?) memory allocation and pushing the drivers into high memory, because DOS couldn't handle both drivers at once in conventional memory. So, if you wanted full use of the hardware...DOS was dead. And the now-ubiquitous USB port? Right, never happened in DOS.
This time it is just happening a little faster and louder. (Or, faster but more silently?) And arguably with no really good reasons.
"The only good silicon life form, is a dead silicon life form." [Will Rogers]
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
-- Harboring a retired T61P with Vista/U/32 and housebreaking a younger W530 foolishly upgraded from Win7/64 to Win10.
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
The subject matter of Kaby Lake with W7 has been touched - very lightly unfortunately - in the T70 thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=122275&start=60
From what I'm gathering - not an awful lot by any means - it does run but not without issues.
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=122275&start=60
From what I'm gathering - not an awful lot by any means - it does run but not without issues.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
There will be security patches, and nobody is going to block them. As always, there is a lot of FUD-spraying websites, and a lot of folks willing to believe the doom and gloom. The end result is almost never as bad as people imagine.hellosailor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:08 amThere may be security patches, but it would be a waste of time and money for any chip maker to actively "block" updates on OSes that are no longer going to have them issued. And a good place to get sued, if they blocked *security* patches.
That's a bad example, because expanded/extended/high memory in DOS is a pretty basic thing that is easy to set up. No problem whatsoever getting network and CD drivers working at the same time, in fact I and many others ran such configurations. The limited capabilities of the DOS network stack is another thing, as is, of course, the lack of drivers for modern network hardware.hellosailor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:08 amReally, anyone remember DOS? Ever try to configure a DOS/Windows dual boot system, with a DOS network driver and a DOS CD driver on the machine? You couldn't do it, unless you played with expanded(?) memory allocation and pushing the drivers into high memory, because DOS couldn't handle both drivers at once in conventional memory.
There actually are some USB drivers for DOS, but I never studied their capabilities.hellosailor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:08 amAnd the now-ubiquitous USB port? Right, never happened in DOS.
Well, in the time of DOS there was no internet, and information spread probably 100,000 times slower. Whatever complaints there may have been would not have immediately spread to several million people via social networks. Plus, DOS and Windows are so infinitely different, than even Windows 95 and Windows 10 have 100 times more stuff in common. Or any flavor of Windows and Linux for that matter. DOS is just something entirely different.hellosailor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:08 amThis time it is just happening a little faster and louder. (Or, faster but more silently?) And arguably with no really good reasons.
As for why it's happening right now? The reason is simple (whether you consider it good is another matter): both Microsoft and Intel want to reduce the support overhead as much as possible. Ending support for an old OS is the easiest way to do so.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
That's pretty much the way I see it as well. Which - at least to silly old me, although I doubt that I'm only one - inherently poses the following question: "Where do I go from here?"
TBT, I don't believe that there's a "one size fits all" answer to that one. Lenovo's course of ThinkPad development as well as my own age - neither of which I'm happy about - have spiked my interest in running *nix on older systems and that's pretty much the route I'll be taking once W7 is completely done with, which may very well not happen in 2020.
People who have the actual need for bleeding edge hardware for whatever reason will be facing some difficult choices, IMO.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
No, they won't. Some small margin of them maybe, but the rest will take hardware with W10 with please. Most of people are hunting for something new which is the reason why they feel 1 year old mobile phone "obsolete".
Re: i7 Seventh generation won't run Win7?
Oh I agree with you. That's why I said "actual need"...to clearly distinguish those whose work is tied to the best hardware that the current market can supply.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
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