Microsoft giveth and Microsoft taketh away...

[GomJabbar]

Some interesting points if you are thinking of migrating to Windows 7.

Finally, out of fear of antitrust headaches, Microsoft has stripped Windows 7 of some important accessory programs. Believe it or not, software for managing photos, editing videos, reading PDF documents, maintaining a calendar, managing addresses, chatting online or writing e-mail doesn’t come with Windows 7.

What kind of operating system doesn’t come with an e-mail program?

Instead, you’re supposed to download these free apps yourself from a Microsoft Web site. It’s not a huge deal; some companies, including Dell, plan to preinstall them on new computers. But a lot of people will be in for some serious confusion — especially when they discover that the Windows 7 installer has deleted their existing Vista copies of Windows Mail, Movie Maker, Calendar, Contacts and Photo Gallery. (Mercifully, it preserves your data.)

The New York Times: Windows 7 Keeps the Good, Tries to Fix Flaws

[RealBlackStuff]

Those 'missing' programs were considered crapware by a lot of people, so who cares?
People with e.g. Gmail or Hotmail or Yahoo only have to type the URL in once, then bookmark it, and have all their emails back.

[Marin85]

All I can say is Where can one get one of those copies? M$ should provide only the kernel of Windows 7 with cmd included (no powershell because it may violate the market freedom of other shells)...

[mattbiernat]

Some interesting points if you are thinking of migrating to Windows 7.



What kind of operating system doesn’t come with an e-mail program?

we can thank opera for it. funny thing i use that little devil.

[qviri]

reading PDF documents

Windows never supported PDF out of the box.

chatting online

And, if my memory serves me correctly, XP came with a very gimpy Windows Messenger, and Vista came with no IM software too.

[GomJabbar]

qviri, I edited your post because you attibuted the quotes to me, when in fact, I was quoting "The New York Times". I did not really verify the quote for accuracy. AFAIK, you are correct, but I see that The New York Times isn't the only one that said this. https://eee.uci.edu/help/pdf/how-to/

[mattbiernat]

Microsoft should really give people a way to customize their OS during installation.
They should give option to install various software:
PDF reader
IM
Calendar
Email
Photoviewer
Mediaplayer
etc....
And for advanced user option to install services that they like or don't like:
ICS
Computer Browser
Peer Sharing Network
etc...
I mean if someone is never going to use MS photoviewer, IM or Email application what's the point of putting it on?
Same goes for services....

[pipspeak]

Not a sad loss IMO. I never use any of the MS apps that'll be missing from Win7 because they're generally flawed in some major way.

[Temetka]

This is going to make me money.

A lot of my clients are planning on upgrading to Windows 7 and when they do they will call me for not only the install but for getting their e-mails back.

Thanks Microsoft for screwing the little guy and making me money.

[paul*robertson]

I like windows mail and outlook express. As i understand neither are downloadable as separate programs. Whats the nearest program to those for W7 users.

[eug]

You can blame the lame antitrust noisemakers for that.

Microsoft includes an internet browser with their OS.
What does Opera do? Bring them to court.

now people expect them to bundle everything... all these little noisemakers with nothing better to do would just complain and sue. They should instead concentrate on improving their marketing, rather than get the OS manufacturer to provide a ballot screen, or ship a version of the OS without a browser, etc etc.

If you can't market your free software well enough, what do you do? Sue the OS maker for bundling similar software. Umm. haha.

Articles like that NYT one are written by tech-ignorant reporters who like to create sensationalism, because that's what attracts the clicks. They're also probably anti-microsoft, as many of them are these days. heh...

[Temetka]

I like windows mail and outlook express. As i understand neither are downloadable as separate programs. Whats the nearest program to those for W7 users.

That is a very good question.

One that I would also like to know the answer too.

[eug]

That is a very good question.

One that I would also like to know the answer too.

Is Windows Live Mail close enough? It's meant to be an OE replacement.
http://download.live.com/wlmail

[qviri]

What does Opera do? Bring them to court.

To be accurate, Opera Software ASA has never publicly brought Microsoft to court. They have settled one confidential case with an unnamed opponent widely believed to be Microsoft, and they have also complained to the European Commission, which may be worse depending on your point of view.

I believe the first body to object to the Windows/IE bundling was actually the United States Department of Justice, as early as 1998, in United States v. Microsoft.

[eug]

To be accurate, Opera Software ASA has never publicly brought Microsoft to court. They have settled one confidential case with an unnamed opponent widely believed to be Microsoft, and they have also complained to the European Commission, which may be worse depending on your point of view.

You're right, they didn't (publicly). But they filed the complaint with the EU in Dec 2007 which got the ball rolling. It's no secret that they dislike Microsoft.

I wonder if they'll start lobbying for the iPhone to be unbundled with safari one day. Isn't it the same situation? the iPhone leads the mobile browsing market.

[fry112]

Those 'missing' programs were considered crapware by a lot of people, so who cares?
People with e.g. Gmail or Hotmail or Yahoo only have to type the URL in once, then bookmark it, and have all their emails back.

Crapware is considered programs that are annoyances but to have a operating system without email is just stupid a business technique , about 60% of computer users are just email and web users! most people want a operating system that has the necessary tools right out the box,! see this is the reason why Microsoft is doing so bad !

[eug]

Crapware is considered programs that are annoyances but to have a operating system without email is just stupid a business technique , about 60% of computer users are just email and web users! most people want a operating system that has the necessary tools right out the box,! see this is the reason why Microsoft is doing so bad !

fry112, you really think it has nothing to do with any anti-trust lawsuits Microsoft has had to deal with?

[moronoxyd]

I wonder if they'll start lobbying for the iPhone to be unbundled with safari one day. Isn't it the same situation? the iPhone leads the mobile browsing market.

No, it is not. Just leading some market is not enough, you need to have a monopoly or almost monopoly in a market.

You can hardly buy a PC without Windows/IE, but you can buy lot's of mobile phones without iPhone OS/Safari.

[qviri]

to have a operating system without email is just stupid a business technique , about 60% of computer users are just email and web users! most people want a operating system that has the necessary tools right out the box,!

And 90% of the email users either already have a free webmail account or use Outlook at work. Unlucky few use Lotus Notes.

[Medessec]

I think the move to not include the add on software was "bittersweet". They definitely did it because most of the software was criticized as crapware(as mentioned above) and unneccesary to those using Vista. In my opinion, there were definitely programs I could live without, I stopped using Outlook express after Gmail arrived and when I got Vista, I never really bothered to touch Mail at all. Also I never use Photo Gallery or Calendar, or Windows Live Meeting Space especially.

However: I did like Vista's version of Windows Movie Maker. I grew up using Movie Maker practically. But I don't like how they excluded it in 7, and I don't like it's Live Essentinals counterpart at all.

Although this is easily fixed by taking the WMM files and placing them into 7, and registering the .dll files. Which takes some nerdiness.

As for the email issue: I've used Gmail since I ever heard it was started, and dropped using offline email client software altogether. Online email clients are usually far easier to use and manage, and can be accessed from any computer. Plus, Gmail is free with insane amounts of features and capabilities.

I still use Vista, and I have the 7 RC installed in a 40GB partition to dual-boot. It's a fast-boot option and a quick way to the internet on the go. I use it quite often when I don't have the time to start Vista, or when Vista fails(which it has once). Plus, all my Vista work is quite accessible.

So yeah, that's what I think.