Lenovo Recovery media or RTM - what's the difference?

[JesseKnows]

Hello,

I've seen a cryptic statement here, that installing Win7 on a Thinkpad (I have a T60) from the Lenovo recovery media would be better than a vanilla installation from the Win7 retail media.
Expecting perhaps some utility or driver, I installed from the Lenovo recovery media. Other than the desktop image and the logo in the System page, I do not see anything.

Can someone elaborate on the expected difference?

Thanks

Yishai

[Harryc]

Lenovo terms it 'EE or Enhanced Experience'. Read about it here;
http://www.lenovo.com/news/us/en/2009/0 ... debut.html

It does not apply to T60's though. Only Thinkpads originally sold by Lenovo with Windows 7 installed from the factory. Whatever thread/s you were reading must have been discussing newer machines. There is no factory W7 recovery media for T60's...or T61's for that matter.

[jdhurst]

I agree with Harry. You cannot get different recovery CD's than what came originally.

Now a preload is absolutely a vanilla Microsoft OS (NO changes) plus Lenovo's software. If you have a T6x (I have a T61p) and you want to load Windows 7 on it (Pro or Ultimate only, please), then you have do to your own install. That means you need go and find Audio, Video, Mouse, NIC x 2, Chipset, HD Protection, Access Connections and so on. You can use System Update (but I always think through the results because I don't want it all).

Long story short, it takes longer to do your own so-called clean install than to use a preload and adjust, and the results of your own install are no better than a properly adjusted preload. But in your case here (and mine) there is no option. ... JDH

[JesseKnows]

Putting the T60 aside, this raises the question: If a customer who purchased a current system (T500 or whatever) with Win7 factory installed had to perform a reinstall from their recovery discs, would they get an inferior result?

[Harryc]

No, it would be the same result. A factory W7 install.

[GomJabbar]

Putting the T60 aside, this raises the question: If a customer who purchased a current system (T500 or whatever) with Win7 factory installed had to perform a reinstall from their recovery discs, would they get an inferior result?

If Windows 7 was factory installed by Lenovo, then it should come with most all of the Lenovo drivers and software that are available (included with base system) at the time that line of PC's came out. For instance, it would come with the Lenovo UltraNav Trackpoint and Touchpad driver, the Lenovo version of the graphics driver, the Hotkeys Feature driver, WinDVD, etc. If you get the Recovery Disk Set from Lenovo or burn your own using the built in app, and use them on a new hard drive, you will get all the Lenovo software and drivers that were factory installed. You would not get an inferior result. If you install Windows RTM, then you only get Windows. You will have to later install the Lenovo Specific drivers. Certain commercial software that might come with the factory install, such as WinDVD you would have to buy on your own.

[GrandMasterKhan]

Not true, look in your SWTOOLS folder.

[GomJabbar]

Not true, look in your SWTOOLS folder.

Where do you think SWTOOLS comes from? Windows RTM or Lenovo? Lenovo of course!

Of course if you had the "Factory Install" already installed, you could copy the SWTOOLS folder to some other medium for reuse later. It is possible that installing Windows 7 without formatting the hard drive would leave an existing SWTOOLS folder in place.

(If I'm not mistaken, SWTOOLS should contain the installation programs for such things as WinDVD. IBMTOOLS has this stuff on my T42. )

[GrandMasterKhan]

Alls I'm sayin iz RTM + SWTOOLS+ThinkVantage Update = Recovery CD. If you beg to differ bra then poolease list whut is different about the Recovery CD. There is no fine tunin or thing like dat. Only marketing ploy you go for bra. Shaka.

[bill bolton]

Alls I'm sayin iz RTM + SWTOOLS+ThinkVantage Update = Recovery CD

It gets you functionally close..... but it is not "=" for a variety of reasons, which have already been described here in some detail over the years.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[crashnburn]

I agree with Harry. You cannot get different recovery CD's than what came originally.

Now a preload is absolutely a vanilla Microsoft OS (NO changes) plus Lenovo's software. If you have a T6x (I have a T61p) and you want to load Windows 7 on it (Pro or Ultimate only, please), then you have do to your own install. That means you need go and find Audio, Video, Mouse, NIC x 2, Chipset, HD Protection, Access Connections and so on. You can use System Update (but I always think through the results because I don't want it all).

Long story short, it takes longer to do your own so-called clean install than to use a preload and adjust, and the results of your own install are no better than a properly adjusted preload. But in your case here (and mine) there is no option. ... JDH

Not true, look in your SWTOOLS folder.

Where do you think SWTOOLS comes from? Windows RTM or Lenovo? Lenovo of course!

Of course if you had the "Factory Install" already installed, you could copy the SWTOOLS folder to some other medium for reuse later. It is possible that installing Windows 7 without formatting the hard drive would leave an existing SWTOOLS folder in place.

(If I'm not mistaken, SWTOOLS should contain the installation programs for such things as WinDVD. IBMTOOLS has this stuff on my T42. )

Interesting. I did not know it was "this" different.

[GrandMasterKhan]

If your system shipped more than 6 months ago, I see nothing wrong with a RTM install. You will be upgrading the drivers anyway and the SWTOOLs folder would have some of the third party programs provided that you want them at all. I mean a DVD program, why not just use Windows Media Player which comes with your OS. I run W7 64 retail with all the latest drivers and have not missed any of those programs. Gets rid of the bloatware basically. The other benefit if you have the latest version of everything from date of new OS install. You can make your own recovery CD at that point.

[Subliming]

I think there is some confusion about what Lenovo's EE actually is. It has little to do with the recovery media and more to do with the implementation of Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). Thinkpads produced later in 2009 that were equipped with Windows 7 have EFI whereas older models have BIOS.

[crashnburn]

I think there is some confusion about what Lenovo's EE actually is. It has little to do with the recovery media and more to do with the implementation of Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). Thinkpads produced later in 2009 that were equipped with Windows 7 have EFI whereas older models have BIOS.

Are you sure? If that is the case then there is no way to enable EE if it wasnt already part of the BIOS+ EFI that they released with it or if they provided with a BIOS update?

But you would still need the Preinstall image / the EE Recovery disks to make the EFI thing work to its max? or not?

[GomJabbar]

I think there is some confusion about what Lenovo's EE actually is. It has little to do with the recovery media and more to do with the implementation of Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI). Thinkpads produced later in 2009 that were equipped with Windows 7 have EFI whereas older models have BIOS.

I admit to not being up to date with EFI or EE, but what Subliming says above, makes sense.

My guess is that with all the Lenovo drivers and appropriate Windows Supplements and Hotfixes downloaded and installed on a new Lenovo PC, you will get most of the Enhanced Experience (EE). You should be able to get this without the Recovery CD/DVD's on a fresh install of Windows 7 on a late model ThinkPad.

My only question would be regarding the following (from Harryc's link above). You could install Rescue and Recovery, but OneKeyTM Rescue System 7.0 and Lenovo Rescue System 3.0 most likely will require an intact Service Partition and Lenovo MBR.

Easier to Use and Maintain
OneKeyTM Rescue System 7.0 and Lenovo Rescue System 3.0 can backup and recover data two times faster than previous versions and feature improved anti-virus and system repair functions for added peace-of-mind. In addition, users can perform an anti-virus scan at the press of a button on their Enhanced Experience Idea PCs – even before Windows loads – to repair critical system files and quickly backup or restore personal data.

So in other words, you likely would lose 'some' features of EE without the factory image installed.

[GrandMasterKhan]

It has no real practical value to pursue for an older model as it is not feasible. IMO, if you want a start up boost then get an SSD.

[crashnburn]

Do you think getting a Service partition cloned from another machine would work for starters?
Or Do I need the MBR as well?

[Subliming]

Do you think getting a Service partition cloned from another machine would work for starters?
Or Do I need the MBR as well?

Does your machine have EFI?

[crashnburn]

Do you think getting a Service partition cloned from another machine would work for starters?
Or Do I need the MBR as well?

Does your machine have EFI?

Answering a Q with a Q? Well. Not sure... How do I determine.. T61, X61T, T400, R400

[Subliming]

Nope, you don't have EFI. Therefore no need to get the recovery discs from a current gen Thinkpad.

[crashnburn]

Nope, you don't have EFI. Therefore no need to get the recovery discs from a current gen Thinkpad.

Do elaborate.. Is there a certain range of laptops that have EFI and what benefits does EFI have? And what EFI has to do with the Recovery Discs & Win 7 EE (i.e. Enhanced Experience).

[eyeland]

Insofar that the EE concept DOES sport certain tweaks (registry, services or drivers) is it not plausible to extrapolate from a t5xx/t4xx EE system to a list of possible tweaks that might be applied to a t61 system?

[Bandana Boyz]

Interesting conversation and feedback. Just to clarify:

If you own a T500 or newer type of Thinkpad and want to install Win 7, is is it worthwhile to:
a) Invest $45 and get the CD's from Lenovo for Win 7 pro or ultimate in either 32bit or 64 bit? or
b) Use a retail version and attempt to download all the Lenovo stuff from their website?
c) Will 'b' give you the same set-up as 'a'?

If your machine is pre-Windows 7 launch
a) Must use retail version, no Lenovo CD's are available for Win 7.

OTHER
d) If installing on same drive, is it best to format the entire drive or just pop-in the discs?
e) If installing on a new drive, which option is better 'a', 'b' or 'either is fine'

[jdhurst]

Question 1: Always buy the Lenovo media if available for your machine. You may not want all they offer, but most of it is fine, and further, it will work correctly if installed properly at less effort than using Microsoft media.

Question 2: Yes. I used Microsoft media for my T61p for that reason. And it took longer (by some hours) than Lenovo media. I have installed both ways and I am no fan of the so-called clean install. It is a waste of precious time for me.

Question 3: Moot point with Windows 7 because you can pop in the CD, delete partitions, create partitions, format and install. It is nicely rolled together.

BTW, Always delete all partitions before installing from the recovery media. This will permit it to build the proper initial partition on the disk. ... JDH

[Bandana Boyz]

With respect to a new Thinkpad like a T500, I did some additional research and spoke with an engineer at a local distributor who also happens to be an authorized Lenovo repair centre. The engineer claims that the Windows 7 recover CD's do not contain all the drivers that come on the retail version, the lenovo recover CD's are merely a copy and not the operating system itself. Yes, you would need to download all the Lenovo items for your machine from the web site but you will not have waisted space of a partiation recovery on your system and you will not get all the sypware that Lenovo puts into the recovery CD's.

Essentially, you will get a cleaner and much better install if you use a retail version.

Any thoughts on this?

[eyeland]

What I am really interested in, is whether Lenovo tweaks things like reg keys and services for the EE

[jdhurst]

>>> Essentially, you will get a cleaner and much better install if you use a retail version.

Having done it both ways, this ongoing statement above is a complete myth. It is easier to take a Lenovo build (which contains all the drivers), take out what you don't need and move on than it is to start without drivers, find all you need and set it up. My current T61p runs Windows 7 from the Microsoft retail build, and although I have it working perfectly well, it was much more work than a T410 preload I set up for clients. Much easier with the preload.

Like I said: I have done it both ways. I help lots of people in Experts Exchange who do "clean" installs, don't understand all they need to do, and come for help.

>>> not get all the sypware that Lenovo puts into the recovery CD's.

This, too, is a myth. Most of the stuff needs auto updates turned off, and I turn off or uninstall Lenovo toolbox. But to call it spyware is simply to be uninformed.

... JDH

[jdhurst]

>>> What I am really interested in, is whether Lenovo tweaks things like reg keys and services

Beyond installation and setup of their own software, I do not think so. I set up my T61p with Windows 7 from a Microsoft retail CD, and once I had done the considerable work to set it up, it works the same as my M90p desktop that came preloaded with Windows 7. ... JDH

[eyeland]

In the EE promotional video (don't remember the link) the Lenovo Dev is talking about a vast amount of reseach into delayed driver startup and such. Think it's just hype and rethorics?

[Harryc]

See this link, video #2 of 5
http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... Experience