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OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#151 Post by 600X » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:02 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:29 pm
It wasn't "conservatives" who elected Trump. There's not enough of them in this country to begin with. Try "forgotten men and women" instead - whatever you may think of that phrase - and you might get somewhere.
Reminds me of this book we read back in one of my undergad classes: https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Pennsy ... 975&sr=8-1

I can recommend it for anyone who is interested.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#152 Post by rkawakami » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:34 pm

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:00 pm
@ray:

"What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."

So... the arson, burning, looting, pillaging, vandalizing, trashing, and robbing & murdering of citizens in several major US cities, ALL with left / dem mayors and most with dem govs (except GA) didn't happen??? All those Walmart TVs in red and green boxes "liberated" in Philadelphia as early Christmas presents didn't occur???? :roll:

I must be getting my TV feed from a parallel universe...
You know as well as I do that DJT's statement was meant for any "negative" news about himself or his administration; i.e., "fake news". He's saying that only he is the one telling the truth, that the MSM either ignores the story, distorts it or outright lies. A classic case of projection: he's the one that ignores the story, distorts it and outright lies (everything he's done recently about COVID-19). That statement I quoted was said by him over two years ago (VFW convention July 24, 2018) about tariffs and the "fake news". It was just one more shot at the MSM and making the story about himself. In the end that's really all he seems to care about.

I do NOT condone any of the violence seen (and not seen) recently in the media that took place during what were initially peaceful demonstrations. Arsonists, looters and murders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And that goes equally for Trump supporters, BLM marchers, antifa and anyone else who would use the demonstrations and protests as cover or excuse to commit a crime.

I gather that since you only quoted this one point I was making, you agree with everything else? In Trump's universe silence is tacit acknowledgement that you agree with him.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#153 Post by cadillacmike68 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:55 pm

mpcook wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:23 pm
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:00 pm
@ray:

"What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."

So... the arson, burning, looting, pillaging, vandalizing, trashing, and robbing & murdering of citizens in several major US cities, ALL with left / dem mayors and most with dem govs (except GA) didn't happen??? All those Walmart TVs in red and green boxes "liberated" in Philadelphia as early Christmas presents didn't occur???? :roll:

I must be getting my TV feed from a parallel universe...
Yes you are... Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, San Diego, among many others.


And those riots were quickly brought under control, unlike the Dem led cities were whole blocks were set on fire, dozens of store that weren't burned were looted completely empty, etc....... And before you go ahead and say that's not true, just true that one car dealership that was completely burned takes up several city blocks.

And how long did they allow this to go on in Seattle, over 100days!!
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#154 Post by cadillacmike68 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:57 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:34 pm
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:00 pm
@ray:

"What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."

So... the arson, burning, looting, pillaging, vandalizing, trashing, and robbing & murdering of citizens in several major US cities, ALL with left / dem mayors and most with dem govs (except GA) didn't happen??? All those Walmart TVs in red and green boxes "liberated" in Philadelphia as early Christmas presents didn't occur???? :roll:

I must be getting my TV feed from a parallel universe...
You know as well as I do that DJT's statement was meant for any "negative" news about himself or his administration; i.e., "fake news". He's saying that only he is the one telling the truth, that the MSM either ignores the story, distorts it or outright lies. A classic case of projection: he's the one that ignores the story, distorts it and outright lies (everything he's done recently about COVID-19). That statement I quoted was said by him over two years ago (VFW convention July 24, 2018) about tariffs and the "fake news". It was just one more shot at the MSM and making the story about himself. In the end that's really all he seems to care about.

I do NOT condone any of the violence seen (and not seen) recently in the media that took place during what were initially peaceful demonstrations. Arsonists, looters and murders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And that goes equally for Trump supporters, BLM marchers, antifa and anyone else who would use the demonstrations and protests as cover or excuse to commit a crime.

I gather that since you only quoted this one point I was making, you agree with everything else? In Trump's universe silence is tacit acknowledgement that you agree with him.


They do.

And I don't. I just won't devote the time to do so.

As for the so-called "peaceful protests", while some started off peaceful, they all rapidly turned into statutorily defined RIOTS, in just minutes in many cases.
Last edited by cadillacmike68 on Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#155 Post by dr_st » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:12 am

pkiff wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:27 pm
So I depend on lawyers (!) and legal analysts to help me understand what is going on. And I depend on election specialists and experts to help me understand how this might all play out in the election cycle. I am an avid reader, and I've probably spent 20-40 hours in the past two weeks reading articles and watching videos about this election. And it's not even my country! But I've still barely scratched the surface. I have in fact only skimmed a couple actual legal submissions. They tend to be long and boring. Likewise, I haven't read any complete actual affidavits all the way through from start to finish, I've just read parts that have been highlighted by others. I assume that the same is true for most people on this forum on both sides of the debate. No one has time to read the mountain of material. So unless there is obvious, glaring evidence that gets presented, then it really does end up coming down to who you believe.
That's pretty much the case. My assessment on the situation, once it became clear that Trump would have to flip a few states by at least tens of thousands of votes was that his chances of actually overturning the results are nil, whether there has been fraud or not.

Has there been fraud? No doubt, just like I have no doubt that it's always been happening on a certain scale, in past elections as well. Has there been more fraud this time, and has it been heavily skewed towards Biden, and has it been on a scale to change the outcome? This is basically what Trump claims, and I have serious doubts about that.

The thing is that it is almost impossible to prove any fraud on such a scale without a thorough investigation. Even if some dude comes and says "I personally forged and delivered 200,000 ballots" and signs a sworn affidavit - that wouldn't be considered proof by any court, just grounds for investigation. The Trump campaign talks a lot about certain irregularities, patterns, etc. that suggest that fraud has been taking place - that in itself is just speculation (BTW, even Giuliani admits that). You can't disqualify any results based on that, only demand that certain things are investigated, which takes time, and there is Trump's problem now - it's time he doesn't have. The train has left the station.
rkawakami wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:59 pm
Further divided the nation into an us (conservative) versus them (liberal) mentality?
He didn't do that. The people who screamed "not my president" on the night of his election, before he had a chance to say even one word as the president did that. That includes, of course, most of the mainstream media.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#156 Post by mpcook » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:10 am

How the Trump & Rudy Show got their numbers very wrong during the 90 minute press conference.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... JhXdcDaNmY
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#157 Post by shawross » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:35 pm

It is time to look past the election and see what is coming. Biden/Harris it appears is their delivery choice to help setup the agenda.

The 2030 prediction of the World Economic Forum “You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy about it.”

It might be a good time to refresh yourselves about what happened in the Russian revolution.

We were previously warned "the Reds are Under the Bed".

They now run all mainstream media and are integrated into political parties and the fed.

Bio-terrorism, Global warming, Financial Control and 5G Total Surveillance are just some of their tools.

This "Agenda" has been a long time in the making.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#158 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:53 pm

Just chiming in to say I remember a certain party whining about unsubstantiated widespread voter fraud 8 and 12 years ago, along with the national debt. Once their champion won they shut up pretty fast about both things. It's all partisan baloney and I for one welcome our new communist/socialist/deep state/reptilian/status quo overlords, as if anything will actually change. :roll:
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#159 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:57 am

And another one bites the dust...
Why am i not surprised?
Trump loses lawsuit that sought to block Pennsylvania win for Biden

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#160 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:27 am

And another one bites the dust...
Why am i not surprised?
Michigan certifies Biden's win as Trump challenges in other key states fizzle
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#161 Post by Saucey » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:57 am

I guess Sidney Powell had "evidence" that wouldn't lead well with the courts. She's gone, but supposedly wasn't part of the legal team.
Trump should of knocked out Giuliani looooong time ago, his hair dye leakage was gross... Wonder if he even took a shower after dying it. I'm assuming he's only still his lawyer because hes the only one who always is a Yes Man to him.

Gonna be hilarious when they appeal to the supreme court and it gets dismissed. So much for that majority.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#162 Post by BillMorrow » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:50 am

gosh, this thread is getting hot under the collar..

so here is a link:
https://populist.press/head-of-dominion ... eady-cast/

be sure to click the red "click here" link under the video..

ALSO, it was reported, i forget where, PA maybe, there were 1.8 million mail in ballots sent OUT and 2.25 million mail in ballots received back..

it will all wind up in court so picking nits about some precincts being in one state when they are really in another is the sort of error that creeps into pleadings when people are rushing to and fro trying to get a filing out in a timely manner.. been there, worked on that in my sordid past..
so how to explain 135% votes over voters..?

my popcorn is running low.. got to get more.. :)
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#163 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:27 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:50 am


ALSO, it was reported, i forget where, PA maybe, there were 1.8 million mail in ballots sent OUT and 2.25 million mail in ballots received back..

it will all wind up in court so picking nits about some precincts being in one state when they are really in another is the sort of error that creeps into pleadings when people are rushing to and fro trying to get a filing out in a timely manner.. been there, worked on that in my sordid past..
so how to explain 135% votes over voters..?
Simple. It's PA. That's all that one needs to know. For those of us who live in the given Commonwealth there is very little surprise when it comes to shenenigans played by our beloved government.
my popcorn is running low.. got to get more.. :)
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#164 Post by mpcook » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:58 pm

BillMorrow wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:50 am
gosh, this thread is getting hot under the collar..

so here is a link:
https://populist.press/head-of-dominion ... eady-cast/

be sure to click the red "click here" link under the video..

ALSO, it was reported, i forget where, PA maybe, there were 1.8 million mail in ballots sent OUT and 2.25 million mail in ballots received back..

it will all wind up in court so picking nits about some precincts being in one state when they are really in another is the sort of error that creeps into pleadings when people are rushing to and fro trying to get a filing out in a timely manner.. been there, worked on that in my sordid past..
so how to explain 135% votes over voters..?

my popcorn is running low.. got to get more.. :)
There were 3.1MM ballots mailed, and 2.6MM returned and counted according to the PA database.
TOTAL 2,629,183 vs. 3,088,123
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#165 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:12 pm

https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/PA.html
Just lie? You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#166 Post by mpcook » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:36 pm

TPFanatic wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:12 pm
https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/PA.html
Just lie? You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
Also, I heard COVID-19 would disappear by Easter, or was it Election Day? And, I heard Putin is a reliable source to the US government for explaining Russian intelligence strategy.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#167 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:06 pm

mpcook wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:58 pm

There were 3.1MM ballots mailed, and 2.6MM returned and counted according to the PA database.
TOTAL 2,629,183 vs. 3,088,123
The webpage was down for about a day while they "fixed" the data to show the figures that you're currently quoting.

Several days ago the numbers were as Bill stated.

Not that any of that will matter in the long run.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#168 Post by BillMorrow » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:10 pm

thanks george, back at you.. :)

now back into the fray..
SO, just off the cuff, my thoughts are, having been somewhat refined in this cooker of politics, hatefulness, reality etc..
i see that trump has been attacked 24/7 since the year one..
some attacks are close to being accurate in that trump DOES overstate.. it is his way.. he is a salesman selling ice to eskimos.. or cheap apartments in a tall building to multi-millionaires.. lots of gloss and bombast..
then into the cauldron of political life and BAM! president of the USA..!!
what i see in trump is a business guy who must get the job done on time and within budget.. or BETTER..
no room for yes men only results..
he has had, as is obvious, no cooperation from nearly anyone in the DC swamp, not even his own party..
but i think the results speak for themselves.. the lists are there, just dockduckgo rather than google since google has worked hard and long to defeat trump and lie or hide or do whatever it takes to get him gone..
same with nearly everyone else..
my fed taxes are ZERO..! we have sufficient coming in the get along well enough..
(though it really pisses me off to know that they can tax my cap gains yet i can't deduct my entire cap losses).. ok, at $3k a year it will be 2137 before i can deduct all my cap losses to date, not even counting any future losses..

so, my friends, i ask all you trump haters.. WHY..? why do you hate trump..?
and spare me the "OH he is a liar!! and has funny hair" crapola..
give me a good reason, a real reason.. and no, he is not in the pocket of putin, that's biden, hunter and biden, joe who admitted collusion on TV..

aside from all that, wishing all y'all a happy thanksgiving (or harvest festival) IF you are where such things are not illegal.. :)
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#169 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:01 pm

I wasn't of voting age in 2016. If I was, I would have begrudgingly voted for Trump. I didn't like the social direction progressives under Obama were taking this country, which Clinton would have continued. All this urban elite nonsense about privilege and identity politics only serves to alienate the majority of the electorate, much of which hasn't benefited a darn worth of white or male privilege in their lives. And the DNC still wonders why Trump won in 2016? :lol: And why Congressional Republicans gained in 2020? We Independents may be done with Trump, but we don't want your identity politics either, so divided we stand!

I'm actually typically politically ambivalent. Sometimes I care, but it's rare because DC hardly cares about me and the growing demographic of working poor. My one vote can go in every different direction (as it tends to do) to no difference when the results are counted. I'm no PAC. The only candidate to truly excite me was Yang.

I don't like Trump's character, in 2016 I honestly preferred Jeb!. Come 2020, his attitude to the Coronavirus pandemic eroded whatever support I had left for him. Banning travel from China was a good move. Calling it a Democratic hoax and supporting the anti-mask movement has negated any benefit from it. Trump could have easily taken a professional approach to the pandemic as he so easily could have taken a professional approach to his entire presidency. He at least tried in his first 100 days, I recall. COVID could have been Trump's 9/11, the opportunity to lead the country before him and get a second term a la Bush. But that would be too easy for the dotard.

I wasn't going to vote Biden until the week up to the election when POTUS tweeted in support of the road attack on Biden's bus. I can't stand Biden and I was going to vote for the other Jo until that happened. I got to experience a brief sense of solidarity with the larger movement to rid this country of the bad orange man. The same day, I hand-delivered an absentee's ballot for Trump, so it's not like I made much of a difference. I don't like Biden, I just like Trump less, and his cabinet even less, especially Devos and Kushner. To hell with them.


In the end I do understand and I do, I truly do relate to at least the Independent sentiment behind supporting Trump, but I don't believe in him like his promoters do. I see him as a fraud like the rest of the swamp. It doesn't matter who wins the election, when the American people always lose.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#170 Post by shawross » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:42 pm

I wasn't of voting age in 2016.
Why am I not surprised?

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#171 Post by rkawakami » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:09 am

@Bill:

A small list of things I dislike about Trump (in no particular order):

- He's a bigot. When someone goes to great lengths, several times, to point out that he's the least racist person in the room, that should set off alarms. He had a lawsuit against him and his father back in the 1970s where he refused to rent housing to non-White applicants. Yes the lawsuit was settled without him admitting any guilt but that just means he had good lawyers (lately he has less than stellar legal representation). His racism has extended into the office of the POTUS with his refusal to denounce white supremacist organizations. Maybe I'm more sensitive to racial issues than you because I'm Japanese. My parents were imprisoned by the US Government by the use of Executive Order 9066. Never mind that they were both US citizens (born here in California). They and their families were forcibly uprooted and taken to concentration camps in Arkansas and Wyoming. Restitution, signed by Reagan in 1998, was nowhere near what my family lost during the 40's.

ref: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
ref: https://www.npr.org/2016/09/29/49595592 ... ation-case
ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/p ... -race.html
ref: https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-th ... ase-235067

- He's a hypocrite. Prior to being elected, he stated that he would hardly have time for golf because he would be so busy as POTUS. He had pointed out years earlier that Obama was spending too much time on the golf course during his presidency. Over the course of the two terms that Obama was POTUS, he was recorded as playing 333 rounds of golf. As of today (11/26/2020), with a little less than one term as president, Trump has been to a golf course 300 times, or basically twice as many times as Obama. He's was on record against mail-in ballots, but not for him; he requested an absentee ballot. He bemoaned the Electoral College... until he won because of it and then said it was "genius". He complained that Obama's vacations were being paid for by taxpayers, yet he has treated Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster clubs as his weekend getaway places, each time running up the tab which we the taxpayers cover.

ref: https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnett ... ce-103836/
ref: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/25/politics ... index.html
ref: http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2020/08/ ... g-by-mail/
ref: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-tweet-el ... er-1545716
ref: https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump- ... d=43564890
ref: https://trumpgolfcount.com/

- He's a charlatan. Dictionary defines it as: a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud. He has claimed himself to be a "stable genius". Why then did Michael Cohen, his personal lawyer at the time, send letters to Trump's high schools, colleges and the College Board, saying they would face legal action if they ever released his grades or test scores? If one were really a genius, he wouldn't be afraid of proving it. Trump has claimed to have graduated "first in his class" at Wharton. A simple check of the commencement program from his class in 1968 reveals no special honors earned. Trump had said during his acceptance speech in 2016, "I alone can fix it", meaning the problems that were/are facing the nation. Maybe you can chalk this one up to an inflated ego: Trump thinks that he smarter than everybody else. Fraud is attached to him through his loss of the "Trump University" lawsuits. That cost him $25M but again, he avoided having to admit any wrongdoing (I see a trend here when he loses in court). He has been described as a self-made millionaire/billionaire. He has said that only a small $1,000,000 loan from his father was the basis of his fortune, which was not the entire truth. If he's so smart and good with money, why then the numerous bankruptcies? I guess he would have been more richer if he had better investment skills. And all of this leads up to the common refrain: what's he hiding in his tax returns?

ref: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... 03662e3764
ref: https://archives.upenn.edu/wp-content/u ... m-1968.pdf
ref: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... it/492557/
ref: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... /94068946/
ref: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ise-224019
ref: https://www.npr.org/2018/10/18/65844235 ... illionaire
ref: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/were-wat ... 03858.html


Yeah, I know you're probably not going to bother reading all of the references I've provided because they're part of the leftist media, but that's where we are today with people believing in alternative facts. There. I didn't call Trump a liar or mention anything about his hair :) .
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#172 Post by TPFanatic » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:42 am

Trump is a liar and his hair is a facade.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#173 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:49 am

Forum members voicing the reasons behind their personal displeasure(s) with DJT may very well become the most interesting part of this thread...I can't have popcorn for medical reasons but this would be a great time to grab a massive bucket...
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#174 Post by mpcook » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:59 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:49 am
Forum members voicing the reasons behind their personal displeasure(s) with DJT may very well become the most interesting part of this thread...I can't have popcorn for medical reasons but this would be a great time to grab a massive bucket...
My reasons (aside from his hair and his lies haha) are based on his mismanagement of the executive branch and his policies, the vast majority of which I disagree with. That would likely be another thread (yes -- it would be entertaining and popcorn would be required).

Back to the stolen election, the majority of the US is relieved that Trump has failed to steal the election. Addiitonally, he has been unable to produce any evidence of election fraud while attempting to commit same.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#175 Post by dr_st » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:44 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:49 am
I can't have popcorn for medical reasons
Gets stuck between and behind your teeth and causes inflammations? That's why I stopped eating it. :D
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#176 Post by TPFanatic » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:46 pm

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#177 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:37 pm

dr_st wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:44 am
ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:49 am
I can't have popcorn for medical reasons
Gets stuck between and behind your teeth and causes inflammations? That's why I stopped eating it. :D
Gets stuck elsewhere and wreaks serious havoc...I was never big on popcorn so no huge loss there... :)
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#178 Post by rkawakami » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:00 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:49 am
Forum members voicing the reasons behind their personal displeasure(s) with DJT may very well become the most interesting part of this thread...I can't have popcorn for medical reasons but this would be a great time to grab a massive bucket...
George,

I'm trying to keep this discourse civil. I'm trying to cite references when arguing my points. I'm trying to keep to the mantra, "hate Trump, but not the people who voted for him". I'm trying to leave behind my thoughts and opinions so that when I'm gone, maybe some of these words will make a difference to future voters; the adage about repeating things if you don't remember history. I'm trying to provide a counterbalance (what some people would call "truth" or "facts") when words like STOLEN are used in this thread's title. We've gotten a little off the topic recently but Bill asked for some information and I only tried to provide it. Maybe this part of the conversation should be split out into another thread.

Am I going to change Bill's or Mike's minds? No. Us old folk are pretty much set in our ways. You've known me for many years. Up until my recent return to the forum you might remember that I rarely (never?) participated in political-themed discussions. As I've pointed out before, I was very apolitical up until the 2016 election. For better or worse, Trump pushed me over the edge into becoming a registered voter. With the recent record turnout in this year's election, I think many others have been energized too. History has taught us that remaining silent is akin to giving up and letting others steer the boat.

Yes I will freely admit that I was against him from Day One but nothing in the last four years has changed my mind and many things he's done only reinforced my initial opinion of him. I've understood that his personal nature, his lyin..., his exaggerations, his demand of loyalty to him (and not returning the favor when things turn, as well as rewarding those who remain steadfast [Flynn]), the way he has tried to manipulate people (using the pseudonym of John Barron as a Trump PR rep) and facts (recent attempt by HHS on COVID-19), the way that he has treated people generally considered to be patriots (John McCain), that he wasn't fit to be the leader of the Free World. I've watched over his term as he has lowered the standards that used to be associated with POTUS. That he has become a laughingstock by most of the other world leaders, with significant exceptions by those who are generally known as dictators (Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, et al).

I'll go off now and grab some heavily buttered popcorn in your honor :) .

ref: https://theweek.com/speedreads/951799/t ... conference
ref: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... crowd-size
ref: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasre ... aga-march/
ref: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... aff-217227
ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/us/p ... ardon.html
ref: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... p-himself/
ref: https://www.vox.com/2020/9/12/21433844/ ... 19-reports
ref: https://www.freep.com/story/news/politi ... 741070002/
ref: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ald-trump/
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#179 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:29 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:00 pm

I'll go off now and grab some heavily buttered popcorn in your honor :) .
You go right ahead, good sir... :thumbs-UP:

I know a lot of people who share your feelings about Trump. I also know many in the opposing camp. Keeping the discussion civil is *always* the right way to go about things, IMO. Some of my oldest friends are also people whom I have very deep disagreements with on a slew of important issues. They most likely won't change their POV in this lifetime and neither will I. That state of affairs hasn't stopped us from being who we are to one another.

Personally, I've got huge concerns that would've stayed the same regardless of who gets inaugurated on January 20th, 2021. However, most of these concerns belong in a different thread, the one that doesn't exist on this forum at the moment.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#180 Post by dr_st » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:43 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:00 pm
Yes I will freely admit that I was against him from Day One but nothing in the last four years has changed my mind and many things he's done only reinforced my initial opinion of him.
I will offer a different explanation. Because you were against him from day one, you interpreted everything he did in the most negative way possible, and viewed all his actions, words, decisions, policies, through the prism of those who oppose him and not those who support him.

Naturally, many of those who supported Trump would do the same, only in reverse. As you said - people tend to stay set in their own way. No one is truly immune to their accumulated biases, not even yours truly.
rkawakami wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:00 pm
That he has become a laughingstock by most of the other world leaders, with significant exceptions by those who are generally known as dictators (Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, et al).
I will argue that this is simply not true, in either direction. And no, opinion pieces from leftist media will not convince me. :) I could search opinion pieces from rightist media to counter them, but since those won't convince you, is there really a point?
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