Advice on bridging..?!

[BillMorrow]

Need some thoughts on bridging three (1-cable, 2-adsl) LAN's all located in my home..

so that i can access printers and NAT (network attached storage), stream some video (netflix and other online video sources), as well as record for later playback that streamed video and share it all with 4 to 8 thinkpads (wifi) and several wired and wifi computers..

anyone have any advice on hardware or just how this can be done..?

thanks..

[loyukfai]

What does you mean by 3 LAN, 1 of cable and 2 for ADSL...? I suppose these are the connections to the outside...? Or you're running a full fledged cable network and 2 DSLAM multiplexers at home...?

Perhaps something like XBMC will do for your media needs...? Or perhaps Windows 7 Home Premium with the Media Center features...?

A router with multiple WAN interfaces and load balancing maybe what you want as well...?

And, any budget constraint...?

Cheers.

[ajkula66]

Drop all of that and get a DS-3...

[BillMorrow]

Perhaps something like XBMC will do for your media needs...?

that is something to look at for the streaming video component..

you're running a full fledged cable network and 2 DSLAM multiplexers at home...?

nope..
i only have two ADSL lines and one cable..
loadbalancing to increase the lousey AT&T DSL speed in this area would be nice..
also for redundancy so when one DSL or cable modem goes toes up i still can go online..

Drop all of that and get a DS-3

i would love a T1 or T3 line.. but this is outside my budget.. WAY outside..

perhaps a dual wan router and access point..?
i have not seen any such that will double my speed..

EDIT:OK, i found this: http://www.amazon.com/Peplink-Balance-M ... 301&sr=1-3

which is very expensive for me but might be worth the expense..

anyone have any thoughts on this device..?

[loyukfai]

Have you looked into using OpenWrt with multi-WAN/load balancing on a more "standard" router...? Think any 4-port model should do. After all, the WAN/LAN separation is done via VLAN in software, and with OpenWrt, you should be able to change a usual 3LAN/1WAN config into 1LAN/3WAN config.

Cheers.

P.S. Another alternative is to move to one of the SE Asia cities. Here in Hong Kong we have gigabit fibre connection for USD30.

A similar-sized house of your current one will probably cost much more though.

OK this is a poor attempt at making a joke...

[BillMorrow]

interstingly, HK, Singapore and OTHER places now rank higher than the USA in economic freedom and ease of doing business.. a very early thinkpads.com customer wai-shan lam, who was educated at a northeastern USA university and whose parents are in business in HK went back to HK to do business.. i was surprised at the time but now i believe he did the right thing..

SO it is no surprise that fibre is available fo $30USD there.. but i'll bet it is not the same in rural regions of china..

here, the local telco does not have the $$ to extend really high speed everywhere so i limp along with really slow DSL..

Have you looked into using OpenWrt with multi-WAN/load balancing on a more "standard" router...? Think any 4-port model should do. After all, the WAN/LAN separation is done via VLAN in software, and with OpenWrt, you should be able to change a usual 3LAN/1WAN config into 1LAN/3WAN config

i did not know that..
i'll give it a look.. thanks..

and

joke is ok..

EDIT:
open WRT looks to be very interesting..
it supports many routers..
thanks for the hint..

further EDIT:
none of my AP/routers are supported..
i would need to buy a compatible router to proceed..
some linksys routers i have in the closet (very old) are supported but i don't think any of those work.. pretty sure they all died several years ago..

[ajkula66]

Bill,

You may want to punch a few numbers in here, and see what your options are:

http://www.t1shopper.com/

You might be surprised...and you'll be able to look up all the non-T-1 services that are available to you as well...

Good luck.

[BillMorrow]

that web site is not so great..
i put all the info asked for and all i got was "can't send email" meaning it could not complete the process by sending me a "key" to complete the process..
SOOO i tried a generic search for T1 on that site and got what i expected.. $550/monthly more or less for 1.5 mb/sec up and down up to $3500/month for 6mb/sec.. as expected.. this was a generic result..

[loyukfai]

If none of your existing router works, consider getting a used one, or an older model if one's available at good price. The newer models easily handle >100Mbps simultaneously WAN<->LAN throughput which are probably overkill in your case.

There're also some other distros, like DD-WRT, Gargoyle, Tamato... Which you may like to check out as well. AFAIK OpenWrt and DD-WRT boast the bigger communities and so it's easier to find support.

BTW, SmallNetBuilder got some informative charts and you may like to check it out. For instance, this is a chart of the routing performance of different routers - http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/r ... otal-simul

To be fair, the (very) high population densities in the cities are one of the enablers for (very) cheap broadband, even in Hong Kong it's not available territory wide - If one lives in the suburbs or (relatively) rural villages, an ADSL line could well be the only option available... Although it's still probably cheaper than many places in the US.

Speaking of rural area in China... If you mean the really rural ones, I don't think broadband is very high on their list of concerns at the moment. If you want to know I can ask about it...

Economic freedom, or laissez-faire, whatever you like... : )

Cheers.

[ajkula66]

Things must be expensive in ThinkPadLand...

I was quoted $350 in my one-horse-town when I checked some time ago...

You may want to give them another shot...

Happy shopping.

[RealBlackStuff]

Some more (hopefully helpful) info on this subject: Load-balancing

[BillMorrow]

Some more (hopefully helpful) info on this subject: Load-balancing

interesting stuff..
with interesting links to even more interesting stuff..
(i need new eyeballs!)

EDIT: even if that website did not seem to work i DID get some T1 info.. a proposal from earthlink business..
the result is $310/monthly (3 year commitment) for 1.5MB up and down..
running the speed test at DSL Reports i get up to 2600Kb/sec down and 350 Kb/sec up..
and as low as 1400~ Kb/sec down on some servers with existing ATT DSL..

the earthlink T1 guy says that may be so but its not always so.. and 1.5 Mb/sec UP is way better than the 350 Kb/sec up i get now..

juggling now.. like juggling angry lobsters.. ONE of which is a wife saying $310/Mo. for WHAT!?..
got to keep them all in the air and not touch or drop any of them..
drop a lobster and it's gunna bite your ankle.. drop your wife and you're gunna WISH it had been a lobster instead..

more as this interesting progression progresses..

[ajkula66]

Do bear in mind that - unlike DSL - T-1 circuits are regulated and subject to tariffs...hence the price...

You *must* get 1.544 up and down at *all* times.

The reliability of the circuit *must* be 99.9%+

The response time on a repair trouble ticket *must* be 4 hours or less...

Good luck with any of the above when it comes to de-regulated DSL or completely un-regulated cable...

[BillMorrow]

@george..

thanks for those specs..
and "regulated"..??!
i suppose this means they MUST adhear to the specs you included..

here's my thinking..
2 x DSL + 2 x POTS lines = $175~ / month
1 x concast cable = $90~ / month
1 x VOIP = $45~ / month
total is about the same as 1 x T1 !

i will need to retain the 2 POTS lines as i ALWAYS keekp a real telephone line and the burglar alarm needs one POTS line..

so i guess it comes down to this: will the T1 give me faster down service overall than what i have now when i load balance these 3 connections..

what is others experience with T1 lines..?

[ajkula66]

The key question here - at least one of them - would be: what's riding on your current broadband setup?

[RealBlackStuff]

Instead of your expensive VOIP for $45.- per month, get the MagicJack Plus.
You can get it direct from the manufacturer, or Amazon, or at a rip-off price in the RatShack, and many other places.
Regular purchase price is $69.95, which includes the first annual subscription fee of $19.95
Discount-prices are available if you hunt around.
http://www.magicjack.com/plus-v05/

I bought one for my wife's shop, initially the regular MagicJack which requires a PC to be running (I used a small HP T5700 Thin Client).
2 Months ago I replaced it with the MJ Plus version, which no longer requires a PC, it plugs straight into a wall-wart.
In many cases you can even keep your old phone number.
The sound quality is astonishingly good.

[phubai]

Just my opinion Bill, but I think you would be disappointed with a T1 when comparing speed capability with your 2 DSL lines and cable. I didn't see where you mentioned your cable speed, but based on what you're paying per month, my guess is your around 10-12 Mbs downstream anyway. Your T1 won't come close to that speed alone, much less when you include the addition of your DSL lines. A T1, for the reasons mentioned, does provide a fairly consistent, reliable service, and is synchronous if upload speed is paramount to you. Otherwise, I'd look at combining/bridging what I had which would give you the added benefit of redundancy without even a 4 hour wait!

[ajkula66]

If speed were everything, then yes, a cable broadband or a higher-end DSL would leave a T-1 in dust...but it's not.

No one gets a T-1 nowadays for the purposes of a fast connection. The key word here is bandwidth. That's why 80% or more of the cell towers deployed across this country are still being fed by something that is essentially a 50-year-old technology...

That's exactly why I asked Bill in my previous post what he has riding on his current setup...

Now, if he could go to Comcast and get a *dedicated* fiber pipe for $350, I'd tell him to forget that I ever mentioned an antiquity known as T-1 or DS-1...but that's highly unlikely.

There's a reason why server farms - including the ones in New Jersey that are the very backbone of U.S. economy - sit on tens of thousands of point-to-point T-1 circuits and not anything else...

Let me shut up because I don't teach this stuff anymore and Bill's forum is not a classroom...

[BillMorrow]

The key question here - at least one of them - would be: what's riding on your current broadband setup?

administrating the forum, email, the usual activities of someone embedded in the web..
also wanting to interface the security system so i can watch the house from afar..

AND, who knows what i might want to do in the near or not-so-near future..

I didn't see where you mentioned your cable speed,

ran a test on dslreports just now (3:45am) teksavvy, toronto: down=8475Kb/s, up=516Kb/s..
this is not consistent..
using a comcast server in WashDC i get 7838,476..
using a sprint server in chicago i get 9289/477..
this is the result using only the comcast cable, not either or both of the DSL..

adding in the DSL's i get a slower speed down and faster up (teksavvy=7558/588)
(comcast, wash DC 1681/312!!! with a comp[ression warning),
(Sprint, Chicago=8481/481 which is actually slower)

The key word here is bandwidth

whats the difference..
i thought speed and bandwidth was the same in a serial type of connection..?

[ajkula66]

Hey, you own this place, and are most certainly allowed to make fun of me...

We'll leave the science and academics of broadband for another thread...

T-1 is a pipe. Doesn't ride on public network.

DSL is a pipe *within* a pipe. Rides on public network. Pretty much the same applies to conventional cable broadband within a slightly different set of parameters...

All of that said...

Given your diverse needs, a single T-1 won't be enough.

If I were you I'd be going to Comcast and see whether they were willing to hook up a direct, business-type, fiber-feed for you. If you could get, say, dedicated 10Mb up/down for what you've been quoted for a T-1 or thereabouts, you'd be doing great. Even a guaranteed stable 6.0 or 7.5 would be an improvement.

You can use one of your existing DSLs for security system.

Might be back with more ideas once I do some research.

Have fun...

[ajkula66]

Bill,

Take a look at this and give them a call...

http://business.comcast.com/Libraries/S ... .sflb.ashx

Good luck.

[BillMorrow]

ajkula66, oh great teacher of basics wrote:

was NOT intended to be making fun or otherwise denigrating you..
i tried to embed a smile therein but it did not work..

thanks for the link, above..
i'll go take a look..

and thanks for the basic education..
it IS enlightening, especially when explained in words of one sylable.. err, silible..? well, you get the meaning..

[BillMorrow]

IRT Comcast Business..
not available here on the "outer limits" of civilization..

BUT the local comcast "dealer" told me today they are looking to advance to something like 30 Mb/s down and 1.5Mb/s UP.. for about $150/month..

i guess this thread has now run its course from bridging through T1 to cable..

thanks to all the participants..

[ajkula66]

IRT Comcast Business..
not available here on the "outer limits" of civilization..

BUT the local comcast "dealer" told me today they are looking to advance to something like 30 Mb/s down and 1.5Mb/s UP.. for about $150/month..

i guess this thread has now run its course from bridging through T1 to cable..

thanks to all the participants..

I never thought of ThinkPadLand being on "outer limits" of the civilization, more like being a civilization of its own...

Now, when you're stuck in a one-horse-town like I am (by choice of my own) the options get *very* limited...

What I would be asking your Comcast dealer "friend", Bill, would be:

a) Is this a residential or business offering?

b) Is this a direct feed ("pipe") with an A-end and a Z-end (this is telco lingo - they might have a different name for it - but the bottom line is that you're at one end, they're at the other, nothing in between and/or shared with anyone else) or not.

Apart from that, the price sounds pretty darn exciting...let's see where the catch is...

Good luck.

[BillMorrow]

george..

i TOO am here by choice..
i prefer rednecks to the beserkeley elites..

i shall make inquiry tomorrow, friday, and learn more..