vehicle search (seats at least 5, cargo room, manual trans,

[alfio]

hello all

looking for a used car/wagon/small SUV that meets the following criteria:

priced at around $12K
seats at least 5 (6 or 7 would be a huge plus but i don't think it exists)
cargo room (some cargo room when all seats are in use)
manual trans (has to be a manual, can't stand automatic transmissions)
AWD or 4WD (the least stringent category but a huge plus

i'm not super worried about age of the vehicle because i'm pretty good at repairs, maintenance, etc. but can't really consider things that are old rattle boxes and whatever i end up buying has to have a/c (so as much as i would love to, i can't go for a 1962 land rover).

it can't be a pickup because we already have one (and rear passenger comfort is important).

it also shouldn't be a huge gas hog. i'm willing to sacrifice some MPG for comfort but anything close to single digits is not an option.

any ideas? so far the only things on my list are the subaru forester (the down side is that the manuals are pretty rare around here) and the mazda5 (only FWD though). any other ideas?

[RealBlackStuff]

Hyundai Santa Fe from 2007 model onwards. Also available with Diesel engine.
I've got the older 2005 2.7 V6 automatic, which averages ~23MPG.
It's got 107K on it, but I love it to bits.

[alfio]

Hyundai Santa Fe from 2007 model onwards. Also available with Diesel engine.
I've got the older 2005 2.7 V6 automatic, which averages ~23MPG.
It's got 107K on it, but I love it to bits.

diesel! are you kidding me? in the states? you can get a santa fe with a diesel and a manual trans? no way, where do i sign???

[RealBlackStuff]

http://www.automobilesreview.com/auto-n ... ils/45520/

[jronald]

Some of the Toyota Mini vans will seat 8. (Sienna?)
GM minivans will seat 7 easy (Uplander, both Pontiac and Buick make the same van, but a nicer version)
Trailblazer extended will seat 7 (they say but the rear most seat is weird getting into and out of. (Trailblazer EXT?)

Ron

[asiafish]

The hard part is manual transmission. I believe Kia still sells a Sportage with a manual trans. If you can live with automatic, the Mazda 5 is a great little mini-minivan that is far larger inside than it has any right to be, gets excellent mileage and is quite comfortable for 5.

Honda CRV is always a winner as well, but again not sure there is a manual trans available and you will have to get a pretty old one to get under $12K.

Subaru Impreza wagon is also a terrific car with manual trans and lots of cargo space (as well as all-wheel-drive), but fuel economy at 25MPG highway EPA (actual a bit better) is underwhelming.

[ajkula66]

You should look into Audi or VW Passat. Might not be an easy find, but they do exist, V6 engines, 5-speed, AWD. Almost bought one several years ago.

I'm big on manual trans myself and drive a '00 Explorer. Five is a bit of a tight fit, though.

The last manual-trans-minivan that I'm aware of was Toyota Previa, which had a 4WD option as well, but the last year of production was '97 or '98.

Happy hunting.

[BillMorrow]

i have got to ask WHY a manual transmission..?

while i have had many (from 49 chevy delux through 55 austin healy 100 to 66 XKE and a really huge ford F350 diesel now) my driver is auto and i see no reason to actually seek a manual transmission..

[Medessec]

I'm going to match ajkula66 on that German car lookout: I highly recommend a VW Passat or Audi A4, in your case probably an Avant(wagon version) of the two.

The Passats can come with V6s or 4-cyl engines, and 4Motion AWD is not frequent, but you can find them secondhand. The Audi A4s of course, will be frequently found in Quattro, but MAKE SURE, because there are some A4s equipped with VW's Front-wheel drive system, and some private-parties selling them will leave that out.

As for having one of these cars- I myself own an Audi A4 2004. If you want to buy one of these, you'll need to aim for 2002 or newer, the B6-gen models. DO NOT buy earlier, especially non-certified secondhand. The B6-gen models are far more up to the standards, and look much nicer and drive much better. I've driven an A4 2002 quattro, and an A4 2000 Quattro, and both drive nice, but the 2002 definitely is more comfortable and gives better predictability. As for my car- it's a front-wheel drive model, not the Quattro, but I do have the 3.0L V6(pretty big engine) and I get 30 MPG on the freeway driving home to my parents from college, and back again. That's to give you an idea of the fuel economy, things only get better with the 4-cyl turbo engine.

As for seating 5, The A4, despite being a "compact" executive sedan, is actually very roomy in the back, if you are feeling a bit more needing towards space you could buy an A6. You also mentioned you need cargo space-the Avant/wagon models I highly recommend, pretty much all of them have the Quattro AWD, and they have a lot of headroom in the back and cargo space. They're also apparently a bit more efficient and desireable compared to the sedan models. The back does seat 3, it can be a bit of a tight squeeze for 3 adults. But 3 kids, there may be some slap fighting, but they won't be uncomfortable.

There are manual tranny versions EVERYWHERE of these things, people are constantly selling them and reselling them, but be sure to test drive the car before buying, because some private parties will try to sell you a Passat or A4 with the clutch going out, which isn't a cheap fix.

Maintenance and costs on these things can seem intimidating at first-but marginally, compared to a similar japanese or american car, it isn't that much more in the long run. Out of all the time I've had my car(almost a year) a little over 2 grand has gone into it, and part of that is new tires and rims(a teen's gotta have his ride tricked out a bit... ) The initial cost was $6500, far below your price range of $12k, so you'll have no problem finding a nice one. The big problems I've had with my car is the timing belt, a common issue on these things, it has to be replaced at 75k miles, and I bought mine at 120k and took it to the Audi dealer to have it checked, and mine hadn't been replaced... ever. My timing belt change was 50k miles overdue. Which is treading on thin ice, because if the timing belt goes out while you're driving, your engine will eat itself, and you'll be out a financial total loss. HOWEVER-This is only if you're an idiot with your car and aren't up on maintenance. Make sure when buying one of these, you have maintenance records, and whatever needs to be fixed, fix it as soon as remotely possible.

So as long as you keep up on maintenance, the costs are reasonable, and not only that, you get that much more car for your money. A4s and Passats are super-efficient, smooth riding cars made to be fantastic to drive, and they are. I love driving my A4. And although it may have been a bit pricey in my situation(I'm a college student) I never regret buying it.