Tablet (TP8), laptop or desktop? OS? Cheap, expensive?

[lemonstar]

Not sure where to post this - basically a tablet-v-PC decision.

I'm really undecided about whether to buy a replacement for my desktop which died over xmas or to buy a laptop or even a tablet or perm any 2 from 3. The choice of hardware and OS's is making it harder to decide what to buy and it also depends on whether money you have to spend on computer and whether you think short term or long term - I could just buy cheap and plan to upgrade or replace in a couple of years or spend more for higher spec hardware now to future proof. I'd thought I would stay with Windows but now I'm not so sure it matters that much. I'm sure I'm not alone in struggling to decide what to buy. Often I think ppl spend too much on hardware that is over spec'd when you look at what they really need.

Previously I hadn't thought too seriously about a tablet but since my daughter has had an iPad Air I've seen just how much difference it makes being able to take a lightweight device around with half decent battery life that you can hook up to wi-fi in a lot of places around town - she's a student so she will do all the usual social media things but she's also readings docs/pdfs & watching uni lectures (medicine related) - I can see that the small size and weight is an advantage over a typical laptop in terms of portability (unless you pay a lot more for an ultra light laptop) - her iPad wasn't cheap but I think I could get a cheaper tablet that has the same physical advantages so I'm switching on to the tablet idea.

Things I never liked about the desktop were the slow start-up, the power usage of the 400W power supply and the fan noise but I liked having a big monitor and the full-size keyboard.

I saw a few videos on the Thinkpad 8 Tablet like this:-
http://youtu.be/0vwQomYwUy4

It looks like it might scrape by as a replacement for my desktop - not sure if you'd all agree with my thinking on this but probably I could get a more powerful desktop for less money than a laptop or tablet - that's a plus point for the desktop but I don't think I really need that much power:-

I don't play any games whatsoever.
I don't need to edit video.
I will watch BBC iPlayer and other catchup channels for UK TV.

Apart from casual web surfing my main requirements are:-
1) for tuition work with students - Excel(win), Geogebra(all platforms), Mathematica (win) various other maths/physics simulations (win & java based) - this is where my laptop is OK but I thought a tablet hooked up to a larger monitor would be better. I guess there are iOS or Android apps I could use but these are what I'm used to atm - probably too big a wrench atm to consider anything other than a win based device.
2) tools for writing - songs/poetry/plays - I've stuck with various paper notebooks but mislaying one for 9 months made me think again - my laptop is too heavy/power hungry to lug about to all the places I write - this is where I've switched on to the idea of a tablet. iOS, Android or win would all probably be fine in terms of available apps.
3) I have a good quality soundcard & various windows software Cubase etc that I use for recording - I think I need a separate win/PC/laptop for that which will need a higher spec than for requirements 1 & 2 so I'm currently only thinking about new hardware to meet the requirements for 1) & 2).

The TP8 tablet is out in the UK around the end of Feb (I rang the UK offices and this is what I was told around 10/1/14)
No prices yet on the UK Lenovo site:-
http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/tablets/th ... hinkpad-8/

there is some discussion (more global in nature) about the release date and features on the Lenovo forum here:-
http://is.gd/DsozeE

also some criticism of the first 2 Lenovo tablets and the usual/understandable concern that early adopters of the TP 8 will live to regret it.

The Dell Venue 11 Pro looks like a similar device with the advantage that it has a Synaptics digitiser for pen input
http://youtu.be/zTqb_tfdqo0

I don't know - these are the thoughts going through my head atm.
Who has switched from a win/pc/desktop/laptop to a tablet and regretted it?

Any thoughts appreciated - just needed a chat about things in general.

[pianowizard]

I think the best for you would be a Windows 8 (not Windows RT!) tablet that can send a video output to your favorite desktop monitor directly (i.e. without the need for an adapter or a dock), and that has a detachable mechanical keyboard. When you are at home, attach the keyboard and and hook up the monitor so you can type and have a big second screen in addition to the tablet's internal screen. While you are on the road, use it as a tablet when you just need to read stuff, but attach the keyboard when you expect to type a lot.

How many Windows 8 tablets have regular (instead of "micro") HDMI or DisplayPort output? There probably aren't any that still use VGA or DVI.

Who has switched from a win/pc/desktop/laptop to a tablet and regretted it?

I have two tablets, the Barnes & Noble Nook HD and Nook HD+, which work well if I just need to read PDF files or ebooks, or browse the internet. But as soon as I need to type more than a couple dozen words, not having a mechanical keyboard is severely crippling. And I do need to type a lot most of the time that I am at a computer. I could just attach a keyboard to the tablet, but the combined weight of a 10-to-12-inch tablet plus keyboard is typically well over 2 lbs, often close to 3 lbs. For that much weight, I would rather have a conventional ultraportable laptop with a 13-to-14-inch screen, e.g. my 13.3-inch Sony Pro 13 weighs only 2.33 lbs. These tend to be quite expensive though.

[loyukfai]

The Synaptic stylus which Dell uses has received quite a few complaints (battery running down fast, hover clicks...), and even the new revision (A01) doesn't seem to solve all the problems. Plenty of posts over at http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/dell/. Seems like a better idea to stick with Wacom for now.

Cheers.

P.S. Talked about something similar before (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=112919), you may like to check it out.

[elray]

The Lenovo Tablet 8, Dell Venue Pro 8/11 appear to be limited to 2GB memory and Atom or Atom-like CPU's.

I would second consideration for Pianowizard's Sony Orphan Pro 13 convertible - which can give you an i5, 8GB of memory, 256GB storage, and a 1080p touchscreen you can actually almost read. The keyboard is no Thinkpad, but it isn't awful.

You won't be able to buy one next year.

[pianowizard]

I would second consideration for Pianowizard's Sony Orphan Pro 13 convertible

Actually, the Sony Pro 13 is just a conventional touchscreen laptop. It cannot be converted into tablet mode.

This thread got me curious and last night I looked around for affordable Windows 8 convertibles that may be able to replace the OP's desktop computer. Microsoft's Surface Pro definitely has enough horsepower, but it's rather expensive and it's also kind of heavy, weighing 2 lbs even with the keyboard removed. Dell's Venue 11 Pro is a lighter alternative that can be configured to use Core i processors, but it's also fairly expensive. Then I came upon the Asus T100, which only runs Atom processors, but it may still be sufficient for the OP's needs. It's an attractive option because it's quite cheap (often on sale for between $300 and $350), has a full-sized USB port on the keyboard, and weighs only 2.4 lbs even with the keyboard attached. It doesn't have full-sized HDMI but it seems that micro HDMI is the norm on these convertibles anyway. The slate portion weighs a meager 1.2 lbs, even lighter than many Android slate tablets. The screen is 10.1" 1366x768, which is a reasonable resolution for this size. The combined weight of 2.4 lbs is quite impressive, considering that the lightest 10.1" HD netbooks weigh at least 2.7 lbs if I remember correctly.

[loyukfai]

The Lenovo Tablet 8, Dell Venue Pro 8/11 appear to be limited to 2GB memory and Atom or Atom-like CPU's.

As mentioned above the Venue 11 Pro can be configured with i3/i5 options.

This thread got me curious and last night I looked around for affordable Windows 8 convertibles that may be able to replace the OP's desktop computer...

How about the Helix?

Cheers.

[pianowizard]

How about the Helix?

I think this statement made by the OP would rule out the Helix:

"her iPad wasn't cheap but I think I could get a cheaper tablet that has the same physical advantages so I'm switching on to the tablet idea."

The Helix is way more expensive than the iPad Air, and is also significantly bigger/heavier. The Asus T100 is closer to what the OP is looking for.

I am thinking about replacing my Barnes and Noble Nook HD+ with an Asus T100. Right now I have both the Nook HD+ and the Nook HD, and it seems silly to have two tablets that are so similar (other than size). It's good to have at least one Android-based tablet though, so that I can install Android apps on it. Both the Nook HD and Nook HD+ are Android-based and can install virtually anything from the Google Play store.

[lemonstar]

Thanks for chipping in a few ideas.

There are some very attractive bits of kit around but I really don't want to spent £1000+ - I want the portability of a tablet and thought about getting an iPad Air to take around with me so I can do my writing projects anywhere but it's a bit pricey and I reckon I could get something cheaper that would do - I'm not sure I need Windows for this - any OS would probably do. But for my tutoring work I'd prefer a larger screen than the T60 15" (1400x1050) I currently use so I'd need cash for a bigger monitor - say 19"-23" - so veering towards buying a tablet made me think I might have to buy a compact desktop to get value for money and a Windows machine as I currently use various Windows apps for my tutoring. But I was looking hard at the T100 when the Thinkpad 8 tablet came on the radar - it looks like a higher spec device (than the T100) that might meet both my needs if I can hook it up to a big monitor and a full size keyboard when I need to. Disappointingly the T100 keyboard/docking station doesn't include an extra battery and only adds an extra USB 3.0 port. I wondered if the Dell digitiser would have been a plus point over the TP8 tablet but obviously hearing that it's drawing some complaints means I'd have to look into that a bit more. I don't know if I'd prefer the larger 10.1" T100 as a tablet (1366 x 768) or the 8.3" TP8 tablet (but 1920 x 1200) in terms of the size of tablet from the perspective of working on it - it's a shame the larger previous Thinkpad 2 tablet wasn't better received - I was also looking at that before the TP8 appeared in the press - I keep checking the Lenovo site but there's no price on the page or a way to order the device - I'm under the impression it would be £350-£400 cf T100 ~£350. I'm still thinking a laptop is too bulky and expensive, too limited on batter life so I'm still thinking either:-
1) TP8 tablet + 19"-23" monitor & full size keyboard
2) Cheaper (than TP8) Android (or less likely iOS) tablet and compact Windows desktop/19"-23" monitor & full size keyboard

[pianowizard]

I'd need cash for a bigger monitor - say 19"-23"

You can save a lot by buying used. I bought almost all the monitors listed in my signature used and they all work great. If you like 20" 1600x1200, the widely adored Dell 2007FP is dirt cheap these days. I bought a near-mint one locally for $38 a couple years ago.

I don't know if I'd prefer the larger 10.1" T100 as a tablet (1366 x 768) or the 8.3" TP8 tablet (but 1920 x 1200)

8.3" 1920x1200 is good for the Metro UI, but is way too high for the desktop UI. My Sony P Series UMPC is 8.0" 1600x768 and DPI scaling never looks right, so I just stick with the default scaling which makes things look super tiny. 8.3" 1920x1200 would be even smaller. I think 10.1" 1366x768 is better for the desktop mode.

I'm under the impression it would be £350-£400 cf T100 ~£350.

The T100 automatically comes with the external keyboard, and since it's not a very new product, it is on sale often. Does the Thinkpad 8 include an external keyboard or do you have to buy it separately? As if including the keyboard wasn't a good enough deal, the T100 is preinstalled with Office 2013. I have no doubt the T100 is the best bargain among Windows 8 tablets.

I'm still thinking a laptop is too bulky and expensive

Used laptops can be very cheap though, much cheaper than any of the slate tablets we've discussed, and yet far more powerful and versatile. Even used tablets are only slightly cheaper than new ones. The failure rate of laptops is probably also much lower. If you are willing to buy used, a nice ultraportable laptop need not cost an arm and a leg. Both the Thinkpad X200s and the Dell Latitude E4200 are worth checking out. In the States, I can easily get an X200s plus a Dell 2408WFP (24" 1920x1200) for under $300 total, e.g $160 for the former and $140 for the latter.

[Saucey]

I thought the Dell Venue Pro 11 was a nice unit, especially since some models come w/ an i3 or i5 processor.
I was going to spend over $1000 for it right after the release and its acessories.
It seemed like a very nice unit, a tablet that can play modern games!!!
Its what the Surface Pro should of been in terms of price/performance.

[lemonstar]

Unfortunately, disappointingly, inevitably there are already quite a few posts about various problems with the Thinkpad 8 tablet
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-sl ... kpad_slate
as with the Dell Venue 8 & 11 it seems like time to wait for the next iteration and make a wiser decision to buy a product that's been out for a while like the iPad Air or Nexus 7 or 10.

I spent a bit of time typing on my daughter's iPad Air using the virtual keyboard - personally I wasn't that taken with the idea of using it for typing the amount I'll want to write so for my writing projects away from home I think I'll be a lot happier using a bluetooth keyboard rather than thumb typing or normal 2 handed typing on a flat unresponsive glass surface. I think the iPad is a nice piece of kit but it's more expensive than I would like, considering what I intend to use it for, so maybe a Nexus 7 for lower cost - I'd consider(maybe prefer) the Nexus 10 but it's not far off the cost of a iPad. I think I'm veering towards the idea of a low cost Android tablet now (I'm not completely discounting an iPad) and buying a Windows machine for more work related tasks. Anyone recommend a great bluetooth keyboard? Reviews are so numerous and contradictory - the keyboard could make me look harder at one or other - either the iOS or Android - I had thought(hoped) the TP8 would have been the first really great windows tablet that could double up as a work machine but I'm really not convinced early adoption is a smart idea, especially with the criticism I've read of Lenovo UK support.

[Saucey]

Nexus 7 is very good too, I hadn't thought of that to recommend.
Personally I like the iPad Mini as well, Apple was disgruntled that it sold a lot better than their iPad.
Price is a factor, but really the I think the Nexus 7 and iPad Mini are perfect sizes for tablets.
Anything bigger you'd want to have a sleeve and keyboard at least imo.

Also yes, I have a friend who has a RT Surface and he doesn't like that he doesn't have some "apps" that are common with Win 8.

[pianowizard]

Anyone recommend a great bluetooth keyboard?

Keep in mind that these stand-alone keyboards can be used only on a flat surface. If you ever want to type elsewhere, for example on your lap, you need a keyboard that's attached to the tablet via a hinge.

I have one more suggestion for you: Sony's P Series UMPC-like laptops. I bought one recently and think it's exactly what you are looking for. It is just small enough to fit in a pants pocket, but just big enough for a reasonably comfortable typing experience. It's extremely light, and mine is even lighter than the weights published officially by Sony. I don't think you will ever find a tablet + keyboard combination that's lighter than 1.3 lbs. And it runs regular Windows. There is one caveat though. This series was discontinued over a year ago but it has continued to have a cult following, so prices on eBay have remained quite high. Things always get difficult when money is an issue, don't they?

[lemonstar]

I have one more suggestion for you: Sony's P Series UMPC-like laptops.

Like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Vaio-VGN ... 2336ea4213

Never seen these before. It's a thought - maybe if I saw one close up.
I might gamble £50 on one, maybe, but not £200.
As for Vista - break out the garlic and wooden stakes!
Batteries and power adapters for older bits of kit tend to be expensive and I guess battery life is not that great.

I take your point about working on anything other than a flat surface - I had in mind a keyboard that is part of a stand for the tablet and a case for both the tablet and keyboard.

[pianowizard]

Like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Vaio-VGN ... 2336ea4213

Yep, that's the one.

As for Vista - break out the garlic and wooden stakes!

Ha, I just wrote the following a couple minutes ago in another thread:

Since Feb 2011, when I finally gave Vista another try (after avoiding it for 3 years thinking it was a "dud"), Vista has been more stable than 7 on all my computers, though 8 is even more solid. As far as stability, my ranking is 8 > Vista > 7 > XP. If I also take performance into consideration, my preference is 8 >> 7 = Vista > XP.

I take your point about working on anything other than a flat surface - I had in mind a keyboard that is part of a stand for the tablet and a case for both the tablet and keyboard.

The combined weight of the tablet plus the keyboard plus the stand may exceed that of many smaller laptops.

What you are seeking is quite elusive indeed, especially since your budget is so low. I have spent years looking for the ultimate mobile computing device and still haven't found it, even though money is not an issue for me. I suspect a 7" phablet with a slide-out keyboard would be ideal, but such a gadget doesn't exist and probably never will. The Sony P Series is almost such a device, but not quite.

[lemonstar]

On Vista:-
http://xkcd.com/528/

I don't think it's that my budget is so limited - it is to some extent but I just didn't want to spent £1000+ money on an ultra light laptop - I want a tablet sized device for portability but I need a Windows device and the ability to use it with a large monitor. I realised that a portable device (for what I want to use it for) doesn't have to be Windows based - iOS would do if the iPads weren't so expensive so Android will do. For a moment I was thinking the TP8 (or one of the Dell Venue 11) tablets would meet both ends of what I need - reading around I got cold feet about those devices, however good they look on paper - I think I'll be buying into a heap of problems I just don't want right now. I have a Stone Netbook but frankly I really hate the keyboard on it - maybe if it had a really great keyboard I'd be ok with it - so I've realised the keyboard is really important to me. I'd be happy to spend £400-£700 atm I think - depends on what I'm getting for that money. I have used my T60 with my large monitor but the laptop screen kinda gets in the way - that's also why I started thinking about a tablet. Maybe if I had the money a huge all in one touch screen would do me.

My Vista experience was with an HP laptop bought from Amazon to do all my music recording on - I couldn't get Cubase, Reason and Guitar Rig to work properly with my external soundcard - Amazon were great about it and I returned it to them - all worked fine on my XP dekstop (that died over xmas) - the problem was, I think, all down to driver compatibility - I thought I had everything right but couldn't get to the bottom of the timing issues.

[pianowizard]

I just didn't want to spent £1000+ money on an ultra light laptop

Like I said, a second-hand Thinkpad X200s or Dell Latitude E4200 would cost much less than that. For example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINDOWS-IBM-L ... 43c3a051e7

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-Mini-Sma ... 2a3818bcdf

If you want long battery duration, extended batteries are available for both laptops. I had the E4200 and loved it. The X200s is heavier, but some units have 1440x900 display resolution, versus 1280x800 for all E4200's. I am fairly convinced that either of these ultraportables would be the best solution for you.

Maybe if I had the money a huge all in one touch screen would do me.

The Dell XPS 18 would be the best. It has an 18.4" 1920x1080, and yet it weighs less than your T60. I have been fancying getting one for a while.

My Vista experience was with an HP laptop bought from Amazon to do all my music recording on - I couldn't get Cubase, Reason and Guitar Rig to work properly with my external soundcard

Many programs are simply too old to run on Vista or 7 or 8. And yes, driver support took a very long time to catch up with Vista. But since 2011, I haven't had any driver issues with Vista, something I can't say about Windows 7.

[lemonstar]

For the time being I decided to buy another netbook for £70 - I had a scout around for netbooks (not unlike the Sony UMPC that was suggested) - but one with a keyboard that seemed well rated - I bought a Samsung NC10 as a "make do"/"stop gap" but I'll continue to watch what happens with the latest Windows based tablets such as the TP8 and Dell Venue 8/11's. The one thing that is nice about a tablet is that you can orient it in portrait mode which would suit the task of writing better (being able to read what I have written). I mislaid one of my writing books - one I've been jotting down and expanding my creative writing projects for about 10 years - it was missing for about 7 months before I found it shoved in a bookcase - (a place I never put it) - that made me think I ought to be writing and storing in the cloud. As for my work requirements an AIO might do for the time being. Something like the Dell XPS 18 maybe worth a look:-
http://is.gd/OePP4G
but PCPro didn't recommend the Dell XPS 27 touch screen:-
http://is.gd/Dxf6KI

Any other similar AIO's to be recommended or worth a look?

[pianowizard]

I had a scout around for netbooks (not unlike the Sony UMPC that was suggested)

In terms of performance, yes, but netbooks are much bigger than UMPCs. Netbooks are basically cheap ultraportable laptops, whereas UMPCs are pocketables that cost a premium.

- but one with a keyboard that seemed well rated - I bought a Samsung NC10 as a "make do"/"stop gap"

Too bad you didn't get the X200s or E4200. Both cost just a little more, but with even better keyboards, MUCH stronger performance, higher resolution, a version of Windows that's not expiring in 30 days, and lighter weight. I think an X200s or E4200 wouldn't have been a stop gap, but a semi-permanent laptop that might even replace your desktop computer.

Any other similar AIO's to be recommended or worth a look?

Nope. The XPS 18 is by far the best.

[lemonstar]

Appreciate your input on this pianowizard - you may be right. Frankly I would have preferred something the size of the iPad Air or the smaller Thinkpad 8 tablet so the NC10 is still larger than what I'd like but smaller I think than the x200 or E4200 and it was easily half the price of either. Others are running win7 on the Nc10 (it meets the 1GHz, 1GB limits) and I have a license I can use so I'll see how it goes - maybe I'll end up looking at an x200 or E4200 if I'm not entirely won over by the NC10's size and keyboard. If I thought I'd get on with the virtual keyboard I would have gone with a tablet - do you ever remember seeing this tactile tablet keyboard?
http://is.gd/6YdEA7
I don't know if they currently have any such products in the market, their website didn't seem to list any. I can't believe the screen reverts back to a perfectly flat surface.

[lemonstar]

I may also stick a Linux distro on it - not sure about support for cloud storage, not looked into that at all yet - I know there are plenty of lightweight installations around oriented towards low spec laptops.

[Temetka]

You can use free storage with either dropbox or google for your cloud storage needs.