Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

Talk about "WhatEVER !"..
Message
Author
ThinkPad560X
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 960
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:47 am
Location: New Alexandria, Pennsylvania

Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#1 Post by ThinkPad560X » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:32 pm

So I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro and got the software for $15 New when it was first released, I couldn't pass up a price like that and for Pro, So I installed it on a 120GB SSD about a month ago now and always go to the desktop, It seems like a non complete Windows im use too. I went to the Windows store and got the free upgrade to Windows 8.1 Pro. Went to the desktop, "don't think im ever going use Metro" And I see a familiar icon on the bottom corener START, I click it and brings me to metro. I think Windows 8/8.1 still don't seem great for me. This is what im use to since Windows 95. http://support.mi.ras.ru/wireless/windo ... sh/1-2.PNG, I still even use Windows XP Pro.

I never liked this tho just the basic and Classic: http://marksxp.mvps.org/images/prodid/prodid1.jpg

Now that Windows 8 and soon Windows 10 use no start or a try to give you one with nothing I need on it. It took me awail to find control panel on 8 and looked on My Computer "This PC" its called now, and found it there. But at least Windows 7 gave me the option for Windows Classic, Windows 8 doesn't. I know you can find and download shell themes but I don't want to go through downloading all kinds of files for something Microsoft could have easily put into 8.

I watched a Windows 10 preview video http://cdn1.tekrevue.com/wp-content/upl ... esktop.jpg and it looks like their trying to put voice commands into this version, The Halo Crotona. I image you could turn it off like XBOX Kinect. I don't see whats so big about touch screen for desktops or laptops, that's what a tablet is for. Voice commands as well, and I saw hand gesture for that HP I think with projectors http://cnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/201 ... otos01.jpg I guess I'm just use to old tech and prefer to stay with my older tech, I started off on Windows 2/3.11, even still have the I think 10 floppies to install. But Windows 95-7 is probably my favorites of Windows.
IBM: 760XD,770Z,600X,560X,560Z,570,310ED,380Z,390X, i1200,i1400,240,A22m,A22e,A30,G40, R31,R40,R50,R60,R61,T20,T23,T30,T40,T60,T61,X21,X30,X41,X41T,X60,X60T,Z60m, Z60T, X3200 Server, NetVista M41 6792,M41 6790,X40 Aptiva 2170,ThinkCentre S50,S50 Ultra,A50p,M50,M51,M82 WorkPad 20X

brchan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:43 am
Location: West Lafayette, Indiana

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#2 Post by brchan » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:48 pm

Yea, Windows 7 is probably the last "classic" Windows. Everything has moved to the Metro interface style, but who knows, maybe Windows 10 will be more usable than Windows 8...
Current Thinkpads: W530 (functional classic keyboard mod), X301, T61, T60, T43, A31p, T23, 600X, 770
Other: mk5 Toughbook cf-19, mk1 Toughbook cf-53

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:01 pm

While I don't know whether W7 should be considered "The Last True Winows OS" or not, given the way things look right now it's likely the last version of Windows that I'll use, and I'm intent on sticking with it until its last day in 2020.

I guess I should be thankful to designers of W8.x platform for pushing me to explore other options, and subsequently realize that there are *nix flavours out there - most notably Cent OS as far as my needs/preferences are concerned - that can replace Windows in my life altogether for 90% + of my personal computer use...

My $0.02 only...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8194
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#4 Post by dr_st » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:53 am

ThinkPad560X wrote:Went to the desktop, "don't think im ever going use Metro" And I see a familiar icon on the bottom corener START, I click it and brings me to metro. I think Windows 8/8.1 still don't seem great for me.
Windows 8/8.1 is a very good stable OS, with a number of improvements over Windows 7. However, the interface is very controversial. If you want to avoid "Metro", just download a free shell extension (Classic Shell) to get your old start menu back (and a number of other optional tweaks as well).
ThinkPad560X wrote:Now that Windows 8 and soon Windows 10 use no start or a try to give you one with nothing I need on it.
That's not true. Windows 10 is supposed to bring the start menu back. All the complaints from users about the lack of it on 8/8.1 got them to listen, or so it appears.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Norway Pad
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1161
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Meridian, ID & Oyer, Norway
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#5 Post by Norway Pad » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:16 am

I have used Win8 on my daily driver T60 at home for over a year now, and with the Stardocks Start menu, with most of the Win8 functions turned off, it works like a slightly odd looking Win7. Most of the issues I have had has been related to the fact that I use this OS with a hardware platform and drivers it wasn't meant for, but with more and more of that ironed out, the stability of this OS seems very good.

Win10 has brought back a Start Menu that does almost the same as the old Start Menu used to do, so I'm a lot less worried about the Microsoft OS future than I was a year ago.
Bjorn
THINKPAD collector. Only missing a proper RetroThinkpad.

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#6 Post by pianowizard » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:11 pm

People love to hate Microsoft. So, they make a big deal out of minor changes or inconveniences. If they can be just a little less obsessed with bashing Microsoft, they would realize it takes no more than a couple minutes to get used to these changes.
ThinkPad560X wrote:I went to the Windows store and got the free upgrade to Windows 8.1 Pro. Went to the desktop, "don't think im ever going use Metro" And I see a familiar icon on the bottom corener START, I click it and brings me to metro. I think Windows 8/8.1 still don't seem great for me.
The main new feature of Windows 8.1 is that you can right-click the Start button. Try it and you will see Control Panel right there, along with many other things. Ever since I learned about it, I have been right-clicking it and hitting "P" to access Control Panel. That's slightly faster than actually clicking the Control Panel icon on the Classic Menu.

The Metro Start Menu is IMO the greatest innovation of Windows 8/8.1. Every time I use it, I am thankful for the huge icons because they are so easy to find and click/touch. By contrast, each time I use the Classic Start Menu of 95/98/2000/XP/Vista/7, I am annoyed by the tiny icons and the many layers that I have to go through to find what I want. I have disliked it since the mid 1990s.

The Charms Bar on the right is excellent on tablets or touchscreen computers, but I can see why people hate it on non-touchscreen computers since it sometimes pops up even when it isn't needed. I don't mind it though.

Another change that people often complain about is that "Recent items" is gone. But it's an easy fix -- just add a desktop shortcut to the "Recent items" folder.
dr_st wrote:That's not true. Windows 10 is supposed to bring the start menu back. All the complaints from users about the lack of it on 8/8.1 got them to listen, or so it appears.
Windows 10's Start Menu is the perfect middle ground: it doesn't cover the entire screen like 8's Metro Menu, but has much bigger icons than the Classic version. It should make everyone happy including me.
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

Saucey
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:22 pm
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#7 Post by Saucey » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:36 pm

I think XP is the last true Windows before it got "bloated" by features/whistles like Vista and Win7. The ram needed and processor requirements are a bit much, seeing how the business retail version (forget what its called) of XP is still being supported shows that businesses aren't ready to switch OSs.

Definitely it is problematic when I use it for installs, yep that's Windows for me. :) Win7 is less of a hassle, but I feel at home with it.

But I'll probably switch to Windows 10 when I get a post 2014 machine.
Coffee, ThinkPads & Nikon Fan.

Current: PixelBook & W550s
Old Favorites: A31p, T43p, 2521, 755, T60

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2779
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#8 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:36 pm

Windows 8 kernel is much better than any previous generations. Unfortunately Microsoft has forgotten that among tablets there are still desktop machines in use (and this is even worse in case of Windows 2012 Server having the same Windows 8 desktop unfriendly UI).

I hope it will be fixed in Windows 10 because this is very likely the last Microsoft chance to success in non-pro customers segment. Microsoft had made another mistake that tablet WinRT and Windows Phone applications uses different frameworks so you need two different applications. This is supposed to be merged.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

Dekks
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:38 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#9 Post by Dekks » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:01 am

Saucey wrote:I think XP is the last true Windows....
Yup the last one that would BSOD with boring regularity, the win 8/8.1 core OS is by far the best version of Windows ever produced. The Metro UI doesn't work on a WIMP system as we all know. Want to boot to desktop and hardly ever see the Metro UI? It's 3 clicks away.
Home - Win10/i5//Arch GNOME 3/X230 Tablet //Spectrwm X61 [Korean] - Debian 10//X32//T60p
Work - Win7/X230T

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#10 Post by pianowizard » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:10 am

Saucey wrote:I think XP is the last true Windows before it got "bloated" by features/whistles like Vista and Win7. The ram needed and processor requirements are a bit much
In my experience, as long as compatible drivers are available, Vista and 7 run fine on many computers with 10-year-old technologies, e.g. Pentium M, Pentium D, and 2GB of DDR RAM. When XP was first released, it ran okay on just 128MB of RAM and 300MHz processors (even Celeron), but near the end, with SP3, all other essential updates and a virus scanner installed, XP's hardware requirements became nearly as high as Vista's and 7's.
Dekks wrote:Yup the last one that would BSOD with boring regularity
Well, 7 brought that "feature" back. Just two weeks ago, I had BSOD on my Dell Precision 390 shortly after upgrading it from Vista to 7. Before that, I had been using Vista on this machine for 4 years and had absolutely zero issues.

I often hear people say that every other incarnation of Windows is bad. I agree, but in the opposite way:

Versions that never blue-screened on me: 2000, Vista, 8/8.1
Versions that blue-screened occasionally: 98, XP, 7
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

jdrou
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: Madison Heights, MI

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#11 Post by jdrou » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:47 pm

pianowizard wrote: In my experience, as long as compatible drivers are available, Vista and 7 run fine on many computers with 10-year-old technologies, e.g. Pentium M, Pentium D, and 2GB of DDR RAM.
Been running Vista on a Latitude C840 w/2GB RAM for about 8 months now and it doesn't seem noticably slower than when I had XP on it. That's 2002 technology. I agree as along as you have 2 GB it seems to run fine on older hardware. There are still some features of XP that I miss on Vista/7 but there are a few new things I like better too.

Almost all BSODs I've seen since Windows 2000 have been hardware/driver issues. Had a Dell Optiplex with a VIA-based USB 2.0 card in it that would BSOD occasionally when I plugged in a USB device. Didn't see that after I switched to an NEC-based card.
Current Thinkpads:
X31, X40, X61T, X61, X201, X220 (i7 IPS), W520 (FHD), T440p (FHD),
T480 (QHD)
Dells: Latitude C840, Precision M70, Precision M4400, M6400 (WUXGA), M6600, M6700, 7730, XPS 13
Daily driver: MS Surface Pro 7 (i7)

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#12 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:39 pm

Puppy wrote:Windows 8 kernel is much better than any previous generations.
While I'll take your word for it since you know a lot more about this stuff than I do, there's a *lot* of proprietary/legacy software that will not run on W8.x under any set of circumstances, and this is my biggest personal beef with the OS in question. All of these run fine under W7...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

coolcat37
Sophomore Member
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:38 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#13 Post by coolcat37 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:39 pm

ajkula66 wrote:While I don't know whether W7 should be considered "The Last True Winows OS" or not, given the way things look right now it's likely the last version of Windows that I'll use, and I'm intent on sticking with it until its last day in 2020.

I guess I should be thankful to designers of W8.x platform for pushing me to explore other options, and subsequently realize that there are *nix flavours out there - most notably Cent OS as far as my needs/preferences are concerned - that can replace Windows in my life altogether for 90% + of my personal computer use...

My $0.02 only...
I am w/ you on this one. Can't seem to configure W7 totally the way I want. This issue becomes even more irritating when using W7 computers in Universities or Companies where you're very limited in tweaking and customizing your desktop. Windows XP was okay and not bloated.

Don't like the overall mentality of Microsoft, nor the direction they're heading.

Linux and ThinkPads are a sweet, sweet combination.

theterminator93
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1065
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio, United States

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#14 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:08 pm

Windows 7 seems to be the "sweet spot" Windows in my opinion - at least for now. I probably won't start adopting Windows 10 until several years after its release, but I'm likely to try out the preview in a VM shortly. I'm not as "against" the idea of using Windows 10 now as I was when I saw the previews for 8 before it was released, but I still don't think I'll adopt it until it becomes advantageous in more than just a few ways over sticking with 7.

Windows 7 runs on most of my ThinkPad hardware (T4x on up) and, with some tweaking, runs all the programs I need it to. Those programs which I occasionally encounter which don't run on Windows 7 - well, that's what the my older ThinkPads are for; running XP, 98 and the like.

But - as I tell everyone who asks me what the "best" anything is in regards to computing - everything boils down to what YOU need.
T480 | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·61T·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
600|770Z|770E|760XD|760EL|365XD|701C|755C

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#15 Post by pianowizard » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:49 pm

jdrou wrote:Been running Vista on a Latitude C840 w/2GB RAM for about 8 months now and it doesn't seem noticably slower than when I had XP on it. That's 2002 technology.
Interesting. I have Vista on a Dell XPS desktop that has 2.8GHz Pentium 4 and 1.5GB DDR RAM, and it starts up really slow. Once fully booted, it's tolerable but is still significantly slower than when this same computer had XP. However, that XP installation hadn't been updated in years and so it could have been using Service Pack 2. It probably also didn't have any virus scanner installed.
ajkula66 wrote:there's a *lot* of proprietary/legacy software that will not run on W8.x under any set of circumstances
Have you tried running them in XP compatibility mode? Or as an administrator?
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#16 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:03 pm

pianowizard wrote:
ajkula66 wrote:there's a *lot* of proprietary/legacy software that will not run on W8.x under any set of circumstances
Have you tried running them in XP compatibility mode? Or as an administrator?
Yes and yes. No-go.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2779
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#17 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:51 am

ajkula66 wrote:Yes and yes. No-go.
It must be poorly written application (it is Win32 application, right ?). The Windows API backward compatibility that goes back up to 20 years is something unique in IT world. And it makes more bad things that good ones these days. If virtualized XP mode does not work either there must be something really bad inside.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

jdrou
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: Madison Heights, MI

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#18 Post by jdrou » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:54 pm

Many people are probably still using 16-bit apps that they can't or won't upgrade.
Probably the biggest problem is with high-end apps that use a hardware dongle as an anti-piracy measure. Can't run the app in a virtual environment like "XP Mode" since the dongle can't be virtualized.
Current Thinkpads:
X31, X40, X61T, X61, X201, X220 (i7 IPS), W520 (FHD), T440p (FHD),
T480 (QHD)
Dells: Latitude C840, Precision M70, Precision M4400, M6400 (WUXGA), M6600, M6700, 7730, XPS 13
Daily driver: MS Surface Pro 7 (i7)

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8194
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#19 Post by dr_st » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:14 am

jdrou wrote:Probably the biggest problem is with high-end apps that use a hardware dongle as an anti-piracy measure. Can't run the app in a virtual environment like "XP Mode" since the dongle can't be virtualized.
Yeah, I have one of these. It's a 16-bit Win3.x application that uses a parallel port dongle. It runs fine under DOSBox under WinXP, by means of PortTalk and AllowIO, which provide passthrough to the real parallel port. But these tools don't work on Vista and higher, and to this date I could not find a solution to make this app work on newer versions of Windows (not that I tried a lot).
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

FryPpy
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:29 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#20 Post by FryPpy » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:35 am

I have many troubles with automotive programs and newer windows (even 7). Most of them are good written and recognize windows version and certainly don't work on newer ones whenever you make compatible settings or not. Most of this programmes is catalogues or interactive technical manuals and it can be virtualized well. But diagnostic programmes that converse with diagnostic equipment :(. Interesting that modern hardware can make such software sucks more. Virtual USB->COM(RS232) or PCMCIA/EC->COM can work well or can't work at all :( So the best choice for auto diagnosis is old but powerful notebooks from P-IV era (like T30).

theterminator93
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1065
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio, United States

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#21 Post by theterminator93 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:43 am

I can empathize with this for sure. I have an older machine (a Dell D810) I use for tuning my vehicles and collecting data from the car's computer; it runs Windows 7 nicely and has a WUXGA screen, plus it has a Dothan Pentium M and a serial port for all my old peripherals. I haven't had any issues with the software I use for these purposes however and Windows 7 though.

I have however seen some compatibility issues with older software and the 64 bit version of Windows 7. I can get the programs to work just fine using various methods on 32 bit Windows 7, but not on 64.
T480 | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·61T·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
600|770Z|770E|760XD|760EL|365XD|701C|755C

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#22 Post by pianowizard » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:06 am

theterminator93 wrote:I can empathize with this for sure. I have an older machine (a Dell D810) I use for tuning my vehicles and collecting data from the car's computer; it runs Windows 7 nicely
Have you used PowerPoint 2010 on this machine? I had a D810 and had 7 on it for a short while. I thought 7 worked fine until I used PowerPoint 2010, which caused the laptop to bluescreen and reboot. It did this every single time. I downgraded to Vista and didn't have this problem again.
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

theterminator93
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1065
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:45 pm
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio, United States

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#23 Post by theterminator93 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:27 pm

Hm, no I haven't. I can install it and find out. Did it BSOD as soon as you started the application?
T480 | T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T601F T9900·NVS 140m·LED AFFS UXGA
T420 IPS FHD | X220 IPS FHD | T61p·T61·43·42p|X220T·301·61T·41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote
600|770Z|770E|760XD|760EL|365XD|701C|755C

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2779
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#24 Post by Puppy » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:49 pm

pianowizard wrote:I thought 7 worked fine until I used PowerPoint 2010, which caused the laptop to bluescreen and reboot. It did this every single time.
If you can reproduce the issue it is already half solved :) I bet it is the video driver. If you have the minidump file you can diagnose it and find the exact driver name.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#25 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:19 pm

Puppy wrote:It must be poorly written application (it is Win32 application, right ?). The Windows API backward compatibility that goes back up to 20 years is something unique in IT world. And it makes more bad things that good ones these days. If virtualized XP mode does not work either there must be something really bad inside.
Here's the deal:

The first piece of software was designed in circa 2001 by a company which has been out of business for a decade now...whether it's badly written or not I'm not qualified to evaluate, but for what it's meant to do it does one heck of an excellent job.

The second piece is even older, and highly proprietary. I believe that the original version precedes W95...

The second one I could possibly live without. The first one is a must. It's irreplaceable for silly old me. Seriously.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#26 Post by pianowizard » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:42 pm

theterminator93 wrote:Hm, no I haven't. I can install it and find out. Did it BSOD as soon as you started the application?
That was almost a year ago and so I can't be sure, but I don't think it blue-screened immediately. I think it happened shortly after I started creating slides for a presentation. Just the most basic slides, nothing fancy.
Puppy wrote:If you can reproduce the issue it is already half solved :) I bet it is the video driver. If you have the minidump file you can diagnose it and find the exact driver name.
I can no longer do that because I sold that laptop in Feb 2014. It was a well made laptop and I especially liked its speakers, but eventually I felt so guilty about owning so many computers that I had to let it go. Anyway, all the drivers I used including the video driver were designed for XP -- Dell didn't release drivers for Vista -- and so it's possible that the BSOD was caused by driver incompatibility. But again, Vista ran flawlessly on that D810, and I always thought that any driver that works for Vista should also be compatible with 7. After all, Vista is Windows 6.0 and 7 is really Windows 6.1, but is advertised as "7" to rip people off. The difference between Vista and 7 is closer to that between 98 and 98SE, than to 2000 vs. XP.
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

AeRoSpaceman
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#27 Post by AeRoSpaceman » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:38 pm

I am running Windows 7 Ultimate running Classic Shell. Absolutely love it!! Looks like it's old and runs like it's supposed to!! Everything, including menu's looks and feels like Late Win98/Early XP. It also works for Win8/8.1 and 10 (have not tried myself). Here is a link to what my desktop and menu's look like. It does not change the functionality of Win7 at all and has a lot of configuration and customization. highly recommended for users wanting that classic old feel and usability. Best of all it's FREE!

My Desktop and menu:
http://postimg.org/image/tjdfh2zsd/

Classic Shell site:
http://www.classicshell.net/
T61 7658-RUU, T8100 2.1GHz, 8GB DDR2 PC2-6400, Win7 Ultimate 64bit, Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260

hackintosher
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#28 Post by hackintosher » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:10 pm

I'm one of the people that jumped ship after XP (went to Mac, starting to flirt with Linux). Over the years I've had a chance to play with various Windows builds and never considered going back to Windows until Windows 7. Clean, fast, like they finally got classic Windows working again after hogtying and force-feeding it after XP. But Windows 8 -- no sir, do not want. I suspect we'll see a split after Windows 8, with the 8 interface being for touch-heavy users and something more like a classic interface being resurrected for standard and (non touch-heavy) professional users.
-x201 - hackintosh OS 10.9 8)
-x60

pianowizard
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 8520
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Contact:

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#29 Post by pianowizard » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:01 am

hackintosher wrote:Clean, fast, like they finally got classic Windows working again
That's true also for Vista, through the release of service pack 2.
hackintosher wrote:I suspect we'll see a split after Windows 8, with the 8 interface being for touch-heavy users and something more like a classic interface being resurrected for standard and (non touch-heavy) professional users.
Have you heard of Windows 10? It's designed to be friendly to both touch and non-touch users, and will be a free upgrade for all current 7 and 8 computers.

BTW, what makes you think that professional users don't benefit from touch? I have found that having one more input interface helps increase productivity.
HP Pavilion x2 12-b096ms (12.0" 1920x1280, Core M3-6Y30, 3.14lb); Microsoft Surface 3 (10.8" 1920x1280, Atom x7-Z8700, 2.00lb)
Dell OptiPlex 5040 SFF (Core i5-6600)
Acer ET322QK, T272HUL; Bolva 40BL00H7; Crossover 404K; Monoprice 10734; QNIX QHD2410R; Seiki Pro SM40UNP

hackintosher
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Is Windows 7 the Last True Windows?

#30 Post by hackintosher » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:19 pm

pianowizard wrote:
hackintosher wrote:Clean, fast, like they finally got classic Windows working again
That's true also for Vista, through the release of service pack 2.
hackintosher wrote:I suspect we'll see a split after Windows 8, with the 8 interface being for touch-heavy users and something more like a classic interface being resurrected for standard and (non touch-heavy) professional users.
Have you heard of Windows 10? It's designed to be friendly to both touch and non-touch users, and will be a free upgrade for all current 7 and 8 computers.
No, I hadn't heard of Windows 10. Sounds interesting. I'm eager to see how it works out post-launch.
BTW, what makes you think that professional users don't benefit from touch? I have found that having one more input interface helps increase productivity.
I didn't say pro users don't benefit from touch, I said not all may benefit from touch (what I meant by non-touch-heavy users). One more interface could help productivity, but Windows 8 as-is goes to the extreme, by putting a large emphasis on touch over standard (classic) usage.

Being a tablet user, I love my touch interface. But Windows 8 would be distracting to me because my touch interactivity is relatively peripheral to my core use. I've got Windows 7 on my tablet (and debian jessie, and OS 10.9). I won't install Windows 8. I may upgrade to Windows 10, but it would be a hard sell.
-x201 - hackintosh OS 10.9 8)
-x60

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Off-Topic Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests