Early HP EliteBooks & DreamColor

[FryPpy]

There is opportunity to get 8740w with this sweetie (DreamColor). And i have started to gather information about this monster

It is like a brother to our W701 but with the IPS screen.
Is there any Thinkpadders that have (had) them both and can compare them?

It have even point stick but it is NOT trackpoint Is there any way to use pointstick for scrolling like our trackpoint?
Keyboard is the big question for me. How it is feels vs our T60 - W701 keyboard? It is like island style - flat keys with big gaps... but gaps made some different way than classic chicklets...
Previous series 8730w have normal keyboards. Is there any way to place 8730w keyboard in 8740w?
8730w can have dreamcolors but 1st gen dreamcolors in 8730w is not IPS - it is good TN. More interesting thing that dreamcolor from 8730w is similar to LCD in w701 - 8bit 2ch LVDS but have better angles and contrast range.
Is there any forum like this with HP folks that made mods on their HPs?

[Saucey]

Hahaha I had this idea earlier thos week with swapping screens from a 8740w onto my W700ds, but converting it to an LED interver would be a bit problematic.

It seems that the Elitebook goes for l lot less than the W700, this piqued my interest because I am a bit afraid to over clock or push the limits on my main machine.

I do want to get a Dreamcolor IPS workstation someday.

I briefly had an Elitebook 2740p, twas a X201T competitor but used a 1.8" drive. It was a decent machine, seemed thinner than the X200T, was an OK machine. I just wanted to resell it, but the lack of a middle scroll button stopped any interest of keeping that machine.

[FryPpy]

Hahaha I had this idea earlier thos week with swapping screens from a 8740w onto my W700ds, but converting it to an LED interver would be a bit problematic.

SOME OFFTOP, but for information purpoces...

This is good idea - and there is some progress on it... but it is very hard
MANY PICS - W700 + DC1 (from 8730w)
Original, but non English forum

W700 (and W700ds) - LTN170CT01 (Samsung) - have only 6bits per color + CCFL.
8730w - DreamColor1 - LP171WU5-TLB1 (LG) - it is TN (not IPS) + RGB LED backlit - have better viewing angles and 8bits per color (may be virtual).
W701 (and W701ds) - LTN170CT08-L01 (Samsung) - 8bits per color and RGB LED backlit, viewing angles worse than DC1.
8740w - DreamColor2 - LP171WU8-SLB1 - IPS with 10bits per color. It needs more LVDS channels to transfer data from video card to LCD.

[ajkula66]

I've had 8740W with a DC panel in my house twice, returned both for different reasons.

The keyboard is meh. If given a choice, I'd go with the non-backlit one since it feels firmer.

Two areas where 8740W outshines W701 IMO, apart from the screen:

a) 4 RAM slots which enable 32GB of RAM max

b) Better GPUs to choose from.

But that screen is...unforgettable.

[FryPpy]

I've had 8740W with a DC panel in my house twice, returned both for different reasons.

What problems had this HPs? What i must to check before buy?

a) 4 RAM slots which enable 32GB of RAM max

Some W701 mainboards have 4 RAM slots. Lenovo states that max ram for W701 is 16GB (with 4GB modules) - but i have seen W701 (on ebay) with 32

Thanks for your opinion about keyboards.

[ajkula66]

What problems had this HPs? What i must to check before buy?

The first one was returned because my wife couldn't tolerate the keyboard and was about to bring a hammer to it. Nothing wrong with the machine itself.

The second one was prone to overheating even after re-pasting. I could've investigated further and probably resolved the issue, but was not in the frame of mind to do so.

Sometime in the future when I'm less busy I'll definitely get one of these again, and then set it up the way I want to...one day...

[pianowizard]

I briefly had an Elitebook 2740p, twas a X201T competitor but used a 1.8" drive. It was a decent machine, seemed thinner than the X200T, was an OK machine. I just wanted to resell it, but the lack of a middle scroll button stopped any interest of keeping that machine.

The 8740w has a middle scroll button for the trackpoint, and another one for the touchpad.

The first one was returned because my wife couldn't tolerate the keyboard and was about to bring a hammer to it.

I am using my 8740w as we "speak". The keyboard is okay...for a keyboard with flat key caps. By now I have used enough flat-cap keyboards that I no longer mind them, but they can never be as good as keyboards with curved key caps.

But for me, the 8740w's biggest problem is its mouse buttons. They are buried too deep, and each time I press them I have to press my thumb against the frame surrounding the buttons, which hurts. Also, I have read that the rubber on these buttons gets worn out quickly.

A third problem is that the trackpoint cap is kind of slippery but it can be replaced with a Thinkpad trackpoint cap. So, this is an easy-to-fix problem.

Other than these issues, it's a solid laptop. I bought it for my lab members to toss around. I suspect I would have liked the Dell Precision M6500 more but when I was shopping for a 17-incher, the 8740w was quite a bit cheaper.

[Saucey]

Cheap is good!
Looks like I'll keep an eye out for one of those, the faults wouldn't matter since I daily a mechanical keyboard.

I have to say I did like the 2740p more than the X200T in regards of build feel and the screen was great.

[oeuvre]

I have an 8460p and while it's 14" you could get the 15" model which is the 8560w. Bear in mind the 15" ones are around 7 pounds and are pretty thick (my 8460p is the same thickness as my E6500 and both are thicker than a W-series).

The keyboard is very good for a chiclet and the layout is decent. The touchpad is really nice, it has a glass surface like the MacBook Pros. The dedicated buttons (4 on 8460p, 6 on the larger one) have a good feel to them. These machines are *sturdy* as all hell. No flex anywhere. The eraserhead is good but TrackPoint is better.

[FryPpy]

Rejuvenate the topic.

I've got this monster and i think i'll abort hunting for W701.
The screen is awesome. I haven't W701 with RGB-LED display to compare with. But HP's screen is truely IPS.

Pros:
It have 2 USB 3.0 (W701 - only one)
Can accept modern video cards.
Ambient light sensor in lid
Cool Aluminium palmrest
Interesting - HP officially state that it can eat 32Gb memory, but in papers they note that only 4Gb modules officially sold by HP - so maximum official memory is 16GB.
Keyboard - unusual feel. I'll try to mix it with 8730's keyboard.
Rubber rounded trackpoint buttons - unusual but not so bad. I have no problems with it as described by pianowizard.
Thinner some mm.
Metal screen latches

Cons:
Huge power brick - bigger than ThinkPad W700's one
I can't engage trackpoint middle button to scroll, but Synaptics config utility have this option (needs some more investigation).
Only one HDD bay
Hdd hard mounted to frame - no rubber "rails", but HP have 3D Driveguard analog to Active Protection.
WWAN option is exclusive with DreamColor option
Bright status LEDs distracting and funny touch buttons
No thinklight and i don't like self illuminated keyboards
My model have 802.11 with n-band disabled;(
If i understand right ThinkPad modules can be used in HP?

------------
1/2 hour i have searched answers about keyboard lighting. Not a word about keyboard lighting was written in official user manual (guide). After googling and comparing pictures of self illuminated keyboard i have understood that mine is not illuminated;(
Bad thing that on 40-x series they have mooved from LED in LID to selfilluminated keyboards....

[brchan]

I just got a work-issued 8440p model, and it is disapointing compared to all my other Thinkpads. Mushy keyboard, vague "trackpoint", no middle mouse scroll button, and chassis flex. The lid stiffness is not bad, and the screen is bright (but flickers with ambient sensor turned on). My relative's 8470p is a whole different machine. Excellent build quality, stiff, bright screen, decent keyboard (though still no middle scroll), and with tight hinges. Great machine.

[RMSMajestic]

I've had 8740W with a DC panel in my house twice, returned both for different reasons.

The keyboard is meh. If given a choice, I'd go with the non-backlit one since it feels firmer.

Two areas where 8740W outshines W701 IMO, apart from the screen:

a) 4 RAM slots which enable 32GB of RAM max

b) Better GPUs to choose from.

But that screen is...unforgettable.

W701/W701ds takes 32GB
W700/W700ds only takes 8GB, which is one of the main reason I rule them out, quite unforgiveable for a 17" laptop to have 8GB maximum RAM

I just hope one day, maybe 5 years later, the s***y nVIDIA cards can be replaces by some better ones.....

I've never had a 8740w with DC scree to compare with my W701. How much better is it?

[ajkula66]

I've never had a 8740w with DC scree to compare with my W701. How much better is it?

It's pretty much incomparable to any other laptop LCD. Seriously.

[RMSMajestic]

It's pretty much incomparable to any other laptop LCD. Seriously.

I've compared my W701 to a HP 8560w with DC, seems that the color isn't much better but the view angle is much better? Maybe my eyes are more sensitive to screen ratio :/
Have you personally compared W701 to 8740w DC?
BTW, how does a DELL M6700 with Premium color compare to 8740w DC?

[ajkula66]

I've compared my W701 to a HP 8560w with DC, seems that the color isn't much better but the view angle is much better? Maybe my eyes are more sensitive to screen ratio :/

I'd argue that the DC found in 8740w beats later ones, at least to my eyes.

Have you personally compared W701 to 8740w DC?

Nope. Never had them side-by-side.

BTW, how does a DELL M6700 with Premium color compare to 8740w DC?

Premium Color is the same screen found in 8760/8770W.

[FryPpy]

W700/W700ds only takes 8GB, which is one of the main reason I rule them out, quite unforgiveable for a 17" laptop to have 8GB maximum RAM

A31p - was the behemoth of its era but can eat only 2GB. And now this is "beloved typewriter" or main point in collection.

Yes year ago i have bought 2x8Gb DDR3 sticks (before reading TPF;) to try out 16Gb on W700 - and no luck. But now they are working in HP;) 24Gb - it is too much for me now;)

I've compared my W701 to a HP 8560w with DC, seems that the color isn't much better but the view angle is much better? Maybe my eyes are more sensitive to screen ratio :/
Have you personally compared W701 to 8740w DC?
BTW, how does a DELL M6700 with Premium color compare to 8740w DC?

The thing. There are 2 screen technologies - IPS (and siblings) and RGB-LED backlight.
RGB-LED backlight can give high color gamut and means for calibration white point other than color profile. Some RGB-LED LCDs have internal color sensors to automatically adjust white color (feedback control).

We love IPS for great viewing angles, high contrast ratio and better color representation (vs normal TN) because it can use 8bit colors.

True DreamColor is a combination of both.
DreamColor 1 in 8730w have only RGB-LED backlight (non IPS, but good TN with better than other TN Viewing angles and virtually 8-bit colors.) It have high color gamut and have been sold as DreamColor for photographers.

WUXGA from W701 is compatible with DC1 - it is normal TN with RGB-LED and feedback control. Well calibrated it can do good colors. But viewing angles and contrast ratio should be? worse, than even 8730w DC1. And it makes different colors in different viewing positions:(

It's pretty much incomparable to any other laptop LCD. Seriously.

About 8560w. As a best option it can have LP156WF3-SLB1. And from the specifications it is the same 10bit IPS RGB-LED backlight LCD.

Addition.
Yes HP and Lenovo Intel WiFi modules are the same. HP have eaten 6200 from X201 without any whitelist problems. I haven't tested this yet but i think Thinkpad can eat HP's modules too.
8730w and 8740w keyboards electrically the same but (WHY?) they have reworked mechanical parts - placements of keyboard connectors (and structure of ribbon cable) and screw points for fixing keyboard. Scissor mechanism is either was reworked simple changing key caps is no go).

[Puppy]

Some RGB-LED LCDs have internal color sensors to automatically adjust white color (feedback control).

This is must-have feature if you need accurate colors for a long time. All real desktop CCFL backlight monitors (NEC, Eizo) have it.

Some more reading http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pointers_gamut.htm

[FryPpy]

This is must-have feature if you need accurate colors for a long time. All real desktop CCFL backlight monitors (NEC, Eizo) have it.

Some more reading http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pointers_gamut.htm

Good article for reading, and all our LCDs is here.

May be we are talking about different things, may be not.
If you mean external colorimeters to calibrate display (like spyder or X-Rite). This is normal thing and W700 have external colorimeter. But internal sensors are mounted inside LCD itself. On RGB-LED backlit LCDs it is important thing because different color LEDs can wear out different. If i don't forget blue LEDs getting older faster. It shifts white point. To compensate this internal LCD's backlight logic can decrease red and green to make white balanced. On CCFL and white-LED backlight systems there is no means to affect color of old lamp. I belive you have seen older ThinkPad LCD with reddish white.

And yes it is wery interesting thing in DC - recalibration counter. It count down time to next screen calibration.

[Puppy]

May be we are talking about different things, may be not. If you mean external colorimeters to calibrate display (like spyder or X-Rite).

Nope.

But internal sensors are mounted inside LCD itself. On RGB-LED backlit LCDs it is important thing because different color LEDs can wear out different. If i don't forget blue LEDs getting older faster. It shifts white point.

Yep, that's what serious CCFL backlight monitors have for a long time, NEC: X-Light and Eizo: DUE. It is the only way to move LED backlight from 'crap' category to something useful.

[RMSMajestic]

Premium Color is the same screen found in 8760/8770W.

Did every M6700 came out with Premium Color option?

[ajkula66]

Did every M6700 came out with Premium Color option?

Absolutely not.

[RMSMajestic]

Did every M6700 came out with Premium Color option?

Absolutely not.

Then how can I tell if one has PC or not?

[ajkula66]

Then how can I tell if one has PC or not?

You'd need a serial # and I believe that it would enable to pull up the original specs from Dell's site.

[FryPpy]

You'd need a serial # and I believe that it would enable to pull up the original specs from Dell's site.

I can't read specs for my HP even knowing SN. On HP's site it showed me right replacement parts list for CPU, memory, WiFi - but listed 3 different LCDs for choise (ony one is DC).

Then how can I tell if one has PC or not?

On HP there is an round DreamColor logo in top right corner of the lid.

DC (and i think PC) is not only LCD or screen itself it also includes color management software. For 8740w this soft (Mobile Display Agent) checks for DC display (LCD) when started and shows error if no DC displays have found.

You can read EDID from LCD itself. Phoenix EDID designer can get it and can show (if it rev 1.3) LCD panel name. I can't get EDID with Phoenix tool in W7 but in Vista and XP it is ok. 2nd way read EDID in Linux with i2cdump (see ThinkWiki page about QXGA on Thinkpad). But ubuntu 12.? can't start Xserver in LiveCD mode on my HP. Working with external monitor as main screen attached to notebook will show EDID of this monitor.
Other hint - in W7 monitor device properties - device ID. It can show short name of LCD (eg LEN4010 or LGD0270) and then google for full name.

[RMSMajestic]

Hey guys, I found a really weird thing.... While the HP 8740w with DC screen is about the same price as a W701ds, the DC2 screen for 8740w is relatively cheap on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111692074752
Is there anything else that differs 8740w DC to the 8740w non-DC?

[ajkula66]

Is there anything else that differs 8740w DC to the 8740w non-DC?

Yes.

There's more "electronics" involved than just the panel itself and not every GPU found in 8740W will drive a DC2.

[RMSMajestic]

Yes.

There's more "electronics" involved than just the panel itself and not every GPU found in 8740W will drive a DC2.

So does that mean even if I found a 8740w DC, I won't be able to change the graphics card and it will be constrained at the W701 level?

[ajkula66]

So does that mean even if I found a 8740w DC, I won't be able to change the graphics card and it will be constrained at the W701 level?

No.

The fastest GPU that you can install is 5000M which will beat the living daylight out of anything that W701 can take.

[FryPpy]

I know little about HPs. But some thoughts follow:

I have read "Maintenance and Service Guide" and found - there are no mainboards and graphic cards specially for DC2 and non DC versions of 8740w. May be some tricks in DC's BIOS? And if i understood right there are no DC models with FX2800.
There are no DC models with WWAN modules. Mainboard have socket for 2nd miniPCIe but there are no WWAN antennas in LID. May be DC LCD prevents installation of WWAN antennas???

There's more "electronics" involved than just the panel itself and not every GPU found in 8740W will drive a DC2.

I have heard about color matching thing. But i don't understand if it is fully software thing or software and hardware (may be this is square thing on back of DC LCD on ebay's picture).

In HP's manual there is only one serial number for LCD cable (i think it is capable of driving DC and non DC screens). But yes DC LCD needs more LVDS channels (pins in connector and wires) to make 10bit colors.

More things.
8740w have only single fan. And 8740w's owners on NBR have noticed that this cooling system is insufficient for high termal load (on extreme CPUs and/or top notch GPUs). They have done some mods for upgrading HSF - but only with some success.
Dual fan architecture of W70x can be counted as superior. But even this can burn top notch GPU (FX 3700/3800).

[ajkula66]

And if i understood right there are no DC models with FX2800.

Correct.

There are no DC models with WWAN modules. Mainboard have socket for 2nd miniPCIe but there are no WWAN antennas in LID. May be DC LCD prevents installation of WWAN antennas???

I've got no wisdom to share on this one...

I have heard about color matching thing. But i don't understand if it is fully software thing or software and hardware (may be this is square thing on back of DC LCD on ebay's picture).

Software and hardware.