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EU seems to be in danger...

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#301 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:34 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:30 am
Linguistics aside, the story just shows - once and again - that the Western civilization is hellbent on committing suicide.... :roll:

Political suicide...um..I mean correctness

I'll be under a big rock if anyone need me.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#302 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:41 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:34 am

I'll be under a big rock if anyone need me.
Given the direction that the world seems to be heading, you may very well find me under the neighbouring one... :D
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#303 Post by mpcook » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:54 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:30 am
Ahem...that very island of Lesbos has its name in the root of the word "lesbian"...so I guess something has changed for reasons unknown.

Linguistics aside, the story just shows - once and again - that the Western civilization is hellbent on committing suicide.... :roll:
It appears that many of the residents don't like being associated with lesbians, hence greater use of the "v". So yes, they are either contributing to the fall of Western civilization, or, you could argue, getting back to a more correct version of the name of the island. I read this on the internet, so I cannot vouch for its veracity.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#304 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:04 am

Image
I wondered where you'd gone...

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#305 Post by dr_st » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am

According to this, the pronunciation of β was changed from sounding like an English 'B' in Ancient Greek to sounding like English 'V' in Modern Greek. Thus we established that there is at least one historical process which is unrelated to the Western civilization's gallop towards suicide.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#306 Post by mpcook » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:12 am

dr_st wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am
According to this, the pronunciation of β was changed from sounding like an English 'B' in Ancient Greek to sounding like English 'V' in Modern Greek. Thus we established that there is at least one historical process which is unrelated to the Western civilization's gallop towards suicide.
Good to know, thanks. So it's then more about the islanders not wanting to be associated with lesBians, which is their right. As it is the right of lesbians to b ... lesbians. (No pun intended).
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#307 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:38 am

I had a very thorough classical education (in Europe), which included both Latin and Greek (one hour each, every school day for 5 years).
Even today I can still read Greek and on my holidays in Greece I could even understand some (albeit very little).
Trying to say anything in Greek (not related to ordering in a bar or restaurant) resulted only in "what planet are you from" looks.
I like Europe, but with so many different languages, it's sometimes impossible to follow everything that's said.
At one time (well over a century ago) they tried to unite all countries with one (second) language for all: Esperanto.
Fat lot of good it did...

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#308 Post by BillMorrow » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:36 am

coolcat37 wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:06 am
BillMorrow wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:32 pm
well, you guys let "them" in..
i must say we didn't let them in. this was fostered from way up. try noticing how hard you're being effed by the upper echelons/decision makers or organizing yourselves while working fulltime. it's impossible. and that's by design. you think people had a say in this?


btw puppy has been inactive the past few weeks, but for those who care: more deaths in germany and france in immigration related crimes. also, more r4pes but don't forget to go out and get that frappucino at starbucks and upload your newest selfie online
ahhh, puppy.. i like puppy even though he's a (maybe fabian) socialist..

standing by and doing nothing is like sir thomas more, who held that silence meant "assent"..
did little good since he lost his head in the end and likewise if you don't stand up and scream "NO" then you too will lose your collective heads.. if not tomorrow, then soon enough..
which is why I praise trump for standing up, especially to this new "caravan" (as of oct. 20, 2018) heading here to America for the american dream or so they say, all the while waving honduran flags and waving fists..
you there in europe and the brit isles had better remove your blinders and fight or charles martel will have lost in the end..
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#309 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:30 am

I think its very easy to sit on a forum and tell people to 'fight'.... people 'fought' in Charlottesville and got ran over and killed by loonie in a Dodge Charger.

Let's be realistic... if you're here you're likely to be in a middle class westernised family with all your usual things... children, a mortgage, car loans and a job you need to get to.

Do you want your job to be jeopardised? Do you want to continue to have a roof over your head or food on your table?

I sit here about to go to sleep and get ready for a 7.30am start for work.

Do you think I give a crap about these wider issues of immigration or global warming or 'cultural marxism' or whatever the left or the right, alt-right, conservatives or whatever are prattling on about?

eg. I'm obviously not female. I care in an altrustic way about female issues. I'd quite happily tell you I'm pro-choice, equal pay and I'm sensitive to gender transgender whatever issues. I dont want 'gender fluid' kids kicked out of school.

Am I going to do anything about it? Nope.

Am I ever going to be affected by these issues? Nope.

So I feel like all these issues in the US UK and EU.... its funny seeing this kind of turmoil from the background.

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#310 Post by GrifterGuru » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:41 am

Brits have enough problems caused by the Govt. and the shambles known as Brexit.

It's bad enough we have incompetant politicians, politicians trying to oust another politician because they either screwed up or want them out, without having to deal with the choke on finances that causes even more problems.

The amont of debt in the UK has climbed since the announcement of Brexit, one local council that I know of has gone bust, others are on the bread line begging-bowl in hand whilst others? well, I could carry on but I won't!

All in all, a very sad state of affairs and a very tight time for everyone, yet there is still money floating about for the fat-cats to get fatter, the poor are getting poorer and the middle-class working populace are being pushed to the extreme edge of being financially solvent despite being in paying gainful employ!

Oh, and did I mention things are set to get worse, or that the crime rates have shot-up due the Govt axing a mass of Police officers?

As if that lot is not bad enough, every street you walk that is a main road is either littered with foreign beggars, prostitutes, drug dealers or all three! (I know one particular short stretch that has a minimum of at least 8 pro's, 3 "dealers" at night and during the day at least four beggars and All in a 500-700 yard stretch). Throw in an off-license, 4 pubs, 3 betting shops, 7 fast food outlets and you could have a right old time of it if you wanted. That is, if the area was decent!

Well, at least that is how it is on the streets in Greater London anyway. Most won't admit it is there, or otherwise they are blind to it.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#311 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:54 am

The response to that is that countries shouldnt put economic performance as the main goal.

Sometimes you have die standing up rather than begging on your knees.

Not much of a life if you existence relies on the vagaries of some bureacrats in Brussels...

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#312 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:16 pm

GrifterGuru wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:41 am

Well, at least that is how it is on the streets in Greater London anyway. Most won't admit it is there, or otherwise they are blind to it.
I've heard similar stories from people that I've known all of my life, and it doesn't seem that there's enough of political will anywhere to get these issues resolved. Depressing.

Late, great J. Enoch Powell might have been partially wrong about who the actual culprits for destroying his beloved country would be, but he saw the big picture 50 years ago...and paid the price for speaking out.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#313 Post by GrifterGuru » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:43 pm

I rely on my own wits, ingenuity and money making skills to get by in a "comfortable" way, though I could always, like many people, do with a little extra "cash" bein thrown my way.

Screw the government, they don't seem to know their ar$e from their elbow, the robbing, thieving bar-stewards that they are. Tax up the Yin-Yang on everything.

Food TAX
Sugar TAX
Fuel TAX
Car TAX
Income TAX
Inheritance TAX
Tobacco TAX
Alchohol TAX
Council TAX
Value added TAX (V.A.T) on goods we buy
Import TAXCapital gains TAX

I could go on, but I will stop there.................. For now.

It's about to get far worse with Brexit looming!!
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#314 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:16 pm

GrifterGuru wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:43 pm

It's about to get far worse with Brexit looming!!
Well, there's a reason why so-sorely-missed George Harrison wrote what he did back in 1966...

"Let me tell you how it will be: there's one for you nineteen for me

'Cause I'm the taxman..."

I'm aware of these issues. I used to call London my (second) home during the Thatcher era, in another lifetime altogether...things were not great back then, but they got worse in a hurry...

No horse in that race, but my hope is that Brexit might actually help the country make the turn for the better. Key word here: "hope".
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#315 Post by GrifterGuru » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:13 pm

Personally?

I can see a resurgance of a few things, but it will all take time. We never did stop the technical manufacture of goods as I know we advanced with Engineering.

I see certain areas of manufacture returning to this country that we lost and more stability to the climate, but i'll be darn if it happens in a hurry. It will take many years, a lot of stress and some very difficult times, but we will bounce back just like we always have.

What is it our British family members were heard to say during WWII? "Keep smiling through, Just like you used to do"? Even when bombs were falling all about them? Mad as hatters, but smart enough to see there would be an end to it and caqrried on regardless, living every day to the fullest.

Same thing needs to and should stand now. Difficult times ahead, but carry on regardless.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#316 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:19 pm

I think its easy to sit back and say "hold steady".

If you're an employee at Panasonic in the UK and you lost your job because they're moving to the Netherlands....

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#317 Post by GrifterGuru » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:50 am

Netherlands eh?

Sounds like the HP Sauce debacle all over again!
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#318 Post by BillMorrow » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:04 am

just dropping in here to fulminate about ONE of my most intense dislikes, it seems the muslims are now offended about the horrid issue of "free Speech" in the EU..
witness the recent ruling against free speech and the imposition of shariah as a guiding law..
i forgot the details but there you are, what charles martel did 1000 years ago has now been undone and islam is now ever so slowly taking europe over..
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#319 Post by GrifterGuru » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:25 am

Free speech is free speech, but lest not forget the many lives that were lost along the way to getting free speech eh?

And as for the Muslims, if they do not like "Free speech", then they should stay within the bounds of their own country where they do not have to "Worry" about such a thing.

Just sayin' is all. Not being a racist (I grew up in a multi-cultural area) and I intend no racist under/over tones here. Just pointing something out.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#320 Post by GomJabbar » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:22 am

(some) Muslims aren't the only extremists in the pot here. There are zealots of various stripes seeking to impose their will on the masses. It is always: "The end, justifies the means", and "power at all costs". It is unfortunate when people cannot tolerate one another, but really they are being stoked by authoritarian leaders, religious and political, all over the world.

Oftentimes, but not always, the religious authority is the political authority. Religion is often used to achieve political aims. If someone can be convinced that God is on their side and that their leader has God's backing, they can be led to perform any manner of atrocity. Of course this does not mean that God really is on their side, only that they believe so.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#321 Post by shawross » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:13 pm

Perfectly said "GomJabbar"

Amen (Pun intended)
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#322 Post by axur-delmeria » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:55 pm

GomJabbar wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:22 am
(some) Muslims aren't the only extremists in the pot here. There are zealots of various stripes seeking to impose their will on the masses. It is always: "The end, justifies the means", and "power at all costs". It is unfortunate when people cannot tolerate one another, but really they are being stoked by authoritarian leaders, religious and political, all over the world.

Oftentimes, but not always, the religious authority is the political authority. Religion is often used to achieve political aims. If someone can be convinced that God is on their side and that their leader has God's backing, they can be led to perform any manner of atrocity. Of course this does not mean that God really is on their side, only that they believe so.
So true.

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#323 Post by BillMorrow » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:47 am

GrifterGuru wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:25 am
Free speech is free speech, but lest not forget the many lives that were lost along the way to getting free speech eh?

And as for the Muslims, if they do not like "Free speech", then they should stay within the bounds of their own country where they do not have to "Worry" about such a thing.

Just sayin' is all. Not being a racist (I grew up in a multi-cultural area) and I intend no racist under/over tones here. Just pointing something out.
uhmm, ok grifter :) pray tell what "race" are muslims..?
seems to me those sad befuddled authoritarians come in many hues and colors..
thus you can't be a racist for disliking muslims, IMO..
in fact we are, or were, free to dislike anyone for any reason..
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#324 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:57 am

Muslims arent a monolithic group.

Granted they havent accepted their clergy molesting children on the degree of certain other mainstream religions.

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#325 Post by Ibthink » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:47 am
pray tell what "race" are muslims..?
I am not sure. Can you tell me what race Jews are? :roll:

There is no scientific base for racism.
BillMorrow wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:47 am
thus you can't be a racist for disliking muslims, IMO..
Of course, you can be a racist for disliking Muslims. Racism is motivated by the sense of belonging to a group, which then translates to hating people who are not part of this group.

In this sense, Muslim is a dog-whistle for people from the Middle East or Africa who aren't White (or rather native European). Hating and generalizing Muslims absolutely stems from racism. In the same sense that Anti-Semitism is also racist.
BillMorrow wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:47 am
in fact we are, or were, free to dislike anyone for any reason..
Well, you are, but freedom of speech also means that others are free to disagree with you and call you a racist if they want. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that others have to agree or accept your opinion, only that you are allowed to share it.
GomJabbar wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:22 am
(some) Muslims aren't the only extremists in the pot here. There are zealots of various stripes seeking to impose their will on the masses.
Yes, this is definitely true. The whole problem of political extremism from domestic and foreign terrorists is also connected. Islamism, an ideology created in response to the total domination of the Islamic world by the West, has managed to attack the foundation of Western society through terrorism. In response to Islamism, now there are Nazis and other domestic terrorists in the West, who are practically the other side of the same coin. Both are attacking the liberal democratic system. So in a way, Nazis/Fascists and Islamists are both worst enemies and best allies at the same time.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#326 Post by dr_st » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:57 am

Ibthink wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 am
Racism is motivated by the sense of belonging to a group, which then translates to hating people who are not part of this group.
Well, that's not strictly true. The original definition of 'racism' was specifically tied to the "scientific" theory that the person's race determines their character and ability, that certain races are inherently inferior to others, and the political doctrine (used, e.g., in the Nazi Germany) which, based on that "scientific" theory determined that different races should have different position in society (or no position at all). That same doctrine, incidentally, considered Jews to be a "race", however true or untrue it may be biologically.

In modern times the term "racism" is used by many in the broad term to define any kind of bigotry or intolerance based on ethnic and/or religious affiliations, not just on those of race. Some would consider it a misnomer, or an incorrect use of the term.
Ibthink wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 am
In this sense, Muslim is a dog-whistle for people from the Middle East or Africa who aren't White (or rather native European). Hating and generalizing Muslims absolutely stems from racism.
I think you are muddying the waters here a bit. While it is true that if "Muslim" is such a dog-whistle, then negative feelings towards Muslims would be based in racism, you have not established that it is, in fact, a dog-whistle. I think it may be true in some cases, but is not universally true.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#327 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:19 am

Ibthink wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:31 am
Islamism, an ideology created in response to the total domination of the Islamic world by the West, has managed to attack the foundation of Western society through terrorism.
Not by any stretch of imagination.

The Islamist ideology is as old as Q'ran which very clearly defines the required behaviour and actions of believers in varying situations. All we're seeing today is a renewed attempt to create a caliphate simiilar to what Ottoman Empire once was.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#328 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:15 am

Oh wow, that such a topic exists here.

Interesting stuff.

Some people really seem to believe in things that are simply not so and then build policy on that wrong assumption. Of course teachers are a big subscriber to those false assumptions. Civics at my school was taught by (which I only found out later) the local party leader in the council of the labour party. His solution for illegal migration over the US southern border was; "American are rich, Mexicans are poor. The Americans just need to give money, then the Mexican's wont migrate."

And oh, in most (if not all..) European countries we have no such thing as what Americans get with their 1st amendment, let alone a 2nd...

You can be charged and found guilty for telling the truth about a certain religion or about certain migrants, by saying nasty things on any God (only ever enforced if against... you get the picture), for insulting the king, for insulting a foreign leader, for "inciting hatred". In the Netherlands we have an elected politician for the court over something he said. In the same time we have a court giving a migrant a lower sentence for raping an 18 year old with an intellectual disability... because if punished the same as everyone else he would lose his residency permit...

Very few people will ever be open about their real viewpoints, but if you speak people one on one or in small groups and they trust you... you can get quite a different picture.

But if you have a family, a job, a mortgage... you keep your view of truth private and in the voting booth because it's quite likely you don't want to deal with nonsense charges, death threats and what not.
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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#329 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:41 am

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:15 am


And oh, in most (if not all..) European countries we have no such thing as what Americans get with their 1st amendment, let alone a 2nd...
Second Amendment is there to protect all the others...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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Re: EU seems to be in danger...

#330 Post by GrifterGuru » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:21 pm

WOW!

My last post certainly seems to have generated quite the discussion, despite bing written with the absolute opposite intent.

All I can say is this: In the UK, with all the "PC" garbage we have to deal with, speaking the truth about a particular culture, to the wrong person at the wrong time can land you in a whole heap of bother and be labeled as a racist to boot, which is why I particularly made the last line comment that I did about not being and not intending those under/overtones.
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