EU seems to be in danger...

[coolcat37]

Puppy, I am actually glad you posted those articles. I had seen them as well. Here in Brussels it's also more of the same. "Young Africans" who attack firefighters on NYE who went to extinguish the fires they created. Police aren't with sufficient so they could't provide cover and so firefighters get attacked. Basically you have certain areas where police has lost total control.

Wonder why? Read on:

"But Sarah Harper, former director of the Royal Institution and an expert on population change, working at the University of Oxford, said that far from igniting alarm and panic falling total fertility rates were to be embraced, and countries should not worry if their population is not growing.

Harper pointed out that artificial intelligence, migration, and a healthier old age, meant countries no longer needed booming populations to hold their own. “This idea that you need lots and lots of people to defend your country and to grow your country economically, that is really old thinking,” she said."

YOU ARE GETTING REPLACED

[Ibthink]

Funny though to see information posted about the incident in Amberg here, but not about the right-wing terrorist attack of a German citizen that also happened on New Years Eve. This attack, where a 50 year old German man tried to kill people with migration background with his car (by driving into groups of people, like many Islamist attacks of the past), was probably motivated by the same vile "blood & soil" type rhetoric that coolcat37 spouts out here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46730472

Of course, some refugees who beat up people are much more dangerous than crazed car-drivers that plow into groups of people to kill them. After all, the car driver was white and the refugees are not... /s

[Puppy]

Good example, the man is already tagged as "right-wing terrorist" while these (99% false) refugees might have had just a "bad day" or mental problems. The sad thing is maybe neither of the both news isn't telling the whole truth these days, which is the first thing that appears in my mind "Did it really happen exactly like it is reported to us?". The political correctness have done more damage than anything else.

The idea of prosperity driven by people who hate your culture, won't integrate and came just to pump money is sick from the beginning. Considering the automation of simple work, the problem is completely different today anyway. Those who decides has completely lost their minds. But in their private life they're still aware of the consequences. For instance they won't let go their children to state school (they almost destroyed the system) but pay them private ones, for obvious reason. They won't go the the no-go zones they're telling you it doesn't exist while they're very aware of the issue they have created and they know it is already out of control. But there is no solution, the continuos lie (political correctness) will make it worse and worse.

One true story. Few years ago a group of scientists from Brussels went to a conference in Bratislava (Slovakia). They spent half day of the city sightseeing. Next evening on a rather informal dinner they asked cautiously how comes that there weren't any apparent no-go zones in the city and you could see mostly local domestic people here. They were told Slovakia is not a rich country with high social security standard in EU, so it isn't (false) immigrant friendly. The next day many of them had started to ask what is appartment/house price level in Slovakia So ... good luck. Sometimes being a poor country is a win ... if the rich ones are controlled by idiots.

[Ibthink]

Actually, no, you are wrong. It is in the case of the incident in Bottrop that the media reported that this man was probably mentally ill, because he apparently had was in some clinic once. Meanwhile, in the Amberg case, there is a massive campaign on social media to instrumentalize this incident. Not coincidentally, every time the media report on the Bottrop case, those right-wing trolls will flood the comment section with comments that go as follows "What about Amberg?!?!" to divert attention away.

No media has reported that the refugees had a "bad day" or mental problems though, so this is a strawman-argument. In fact, its pretty unanimous that most people want consequences for these people, but as always, reasonable voices are being shouted down by the people who want to use this incident to paint all refugees as universally bad.

The sad thing is maybe neither of the both news isn't telling the whole truth these days, which is the first thing that appears in my mind "Did it really happen exactly like it is reported to us?". The political correctness have done more damage than anything else.

The problem is that you have fallen for the propaganda of the likes of RT. It is well known that one of the Russian propaganda strategies is to introduce doubt into the Western societies. One way to do this is to tell the reader/viewer that all other media is not to be trusted. This way, only the Russian propaganda outlet that told them this "truth" remains as the only reliable source.

"Political correctness" has always existed. It is just a word that describes that the ruling class imposes its values on society and this was always the case. As always, every media has a certain bias, which you should be aware off, but that does not mean they are outright lying. Taking everything the media writes as the outright truth is a wrong as to instantly doubt everything that the media writes.

The idea of prosperity driven by people who hate your culture, won't integrate and came just to pump money is sick from the beginning. Considering the automation of simple work, the issue is completely different anyway.

Even with automation, migration will be needed in the future to soften the demographic transition. What happens without migration can be seen in Japan – that is a country with barely any migrants. It is going through the same demographic transition as the west and that country is just dying completely.

It is important to separate migration from asylum, however. Both need to be clearly regulated as well. In 2015, the migration with many asylum seekers was uncontrolled, which is the real issue. I think that is mostly under control now.

As far as integration goes, many people are integrating. Others aren't and others are also criminal. It is important not to generalize though and to punish and possibly deport those who are criminal. That is a process that will take time.

There is a reasonable middle ground between humanitarian aid, migration and border protection. Of course, some people don't want any migration, because it "destroys the white race by replacement". Personally, I am not afraid to call these bigots what they are: Racist.

[Puppy]

who want to use this incident to paint all refugees as universally bad.

Back to the root cause of everything, majority of them aren't any true refugees, they are liars. They intentionally lie about their age, name, home country, everything. Also note that many of them are coming without their families.

The problem is that you have fallen for the propaganda of the likes of RT. It is well known that one of the Russian propaganda strategies is to introduce doubt into the Western societies. One way to do this is to tell the reader/viewer that all other media is not to be trusted. This way, only the Russian propaganda outlet that told them this "truth" remains as the only reliable source.

Sorry, this is ridiculous I lived in Soviet propaganda system for a long time so I can see what the EU representatives are doing and what reason is behind it. All of it sounds very familiar, unfortunately.

As far as integration goes, many people are integrating.

I visit Germany for at least one weekend a month, various cities. Most of the time I use train and take a walk from Hbf to my hotel, when is up to ~45 minutes reach by walk. I walk, look around and listen people talk. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think that "people are integrating" if half of them on streets and shops don't speak German. Cities like Oberhausen, Essen, Mannheim .... you've already lost the battle there.

Of course, some people don't want any migration, because it "destroys the white race by replacement". Personally, I am not afraid to call these bigots what they are: Racist.

We say "whoever lies, steals as well", it summarizes my point of view already taken in the first reply. It isn't about any race but mentality and trust (and silly religion).

[Puppy]

And just another trash who can't behave. It is very interesting case to watch.

Woman (21) defended herself: Now her trial is threatening
https://www.heute.at/oesterreich/wien/s ... --59315512

A 21-year-old tourist fights against 1.30 clock in the morning with a reflex punch in the face of an Afghan who had previously grabbed her buttocks. The 20-year-old was reported for sexual harassment.

But also against the victim was reported because of the nasal bone fracture due to "serious injury". This causes "heute.at" for violent debates. The tenor ranges from "understandable self-help" to "insolence - why is the woman even displayed?". The police speak in their report of a "knee-jerk punch", but this must formally indicate as an official offens.

Possible consequences:
■ The prosecution shelters the ad. Reason: The offense is classified as self-defense or reflex. No legal consequences.
■ There is a lawsuit that ends with an acquittal of the woman.
■ The court issues a diversion (offer of the public prosecutor's office), which is calculated with a lump-sum payment of around 500 euros.
■ A conviction of the woman in the form of a conditional or part-time prison sentence, however, strongly excludes both defenders.

WTF? Just another form of support of the trash and message that you can't defend yourself without further consequences. It is nothing new but in the "old time" people around usually wouldn't be afraid to help her to "explain" him how to treat women in civilized world. And he would remembered it for next couple of weeks, case closed.

And no, the manual apparently didn't work
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/0 ... n-germany/

Blogger Anabel Schunke argued that the site would do little to address the problematic attitudes towards women and sex found among many male migrants: “These men know exactly what is and isn’t allowed, and they just do not care because they have anyway never interested the laws and culture of this country,” she wrote.

@Ibthink: It refers to my previous comment about the integration and their mentality, I hope my point of view is clear now.

[coolcat37]

It really is baffling to see Ibthink doing his best to defend these economic migrants and their behaviour.

Stop trying to deny there is a problem. Or in which world do you live?

[Puppy]

The biggest mystery for me is how all these well developed countries like Germany or Sweden could have become so silly and naive during last few years accepting thousands of these false migrants who are incompatible with the European and/or western culture at all. Despite of hundreds examples of the total failure they still defend the "big mistake". And it affects well educated and intelligent people as well (until they or their close friends got directly affected by it).

I know more and more people in Germany, at the beginning most of them agree with the official opinion on this. But in a private conversation, when you know them for a longer period, many of them says it is a total disaster. It confirms my experience living in the totalitarian system for two decades, people are afraid to express their real opinion. No wonder, if you say it loud on a social network, the comment is deleted and your account is banned. This is why all these Russian web sites have such popularity, they always add their propaganda on top of the real news of course, but won't filter them as the official ones. Still the root cause was created by the EU politicians and political correctness in media. There is no way to regain the trust back because the "incorrect news" are either filtered out or played down for a long time. And many of these NGOs are part of the problem as well.

In the history Germany had an unique ability to raise conflicts in Europe. One would expect they finally have learned from the past but it doesn't seem like that again

[Ibthink]

Stop trying to deny there is a problem. Or in which world do you live?

I am not denying any problems though, I just dislike the nefarious generalizations and crazy conspiracy theories that people like you are peddling, which in turn leads to people like the German man in Bottrop to become violent and trying to kill people.

Of course, in the real world, the politicians have already reduced mass-migration into Europe by a lot, but still, hysterics never end.

I lived in Soviet propaganda system for a long time so I can see what the EU representatives are doing and what reason is behind it. All of it sounds very familiar, unfortunately.

That just makes it even sadder that you believe "media"-organizations like RT, a mouth piece of the former KGB operative Wladimir Putin and his little mafia state.

In the EU, media isn't centralized, unlike in the USSR. Only one country in the EU has truly unfree media and that his Hungary, where most of the media is controlled directly and indirectly by the government. Of course, that country is run by a right-wing strongman that used refugee hysteria to stay in power.

I walk, look around and listen people talk. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think that "people are integrating" if half of them on streets and shops don't speak German.

We don't live in a totalitarian state. People are not forced to speak in German 24/7. For the integration, they have to learn German yes, but if they use it in private, it is their choice.

Integration is not the same thing as assimilation.

It isn't about any race but mentality and trust (and silly religion).

But then you make sweeping generalizations about a very diverse and huge group of people. It is OK to punish those who are criminal, but that doesn't mean that every refugee is a criminal.

Mentality -> That is something that can not really be generalized. People also said that Spanish, Italian and Turkish people had "wrong mentality" when they first started to migrate to Germany in the 1950s and 1960s and yet, now most people living here from these countries who are perfectly integrated.

That integration however takes a lot of work and investment by the state. Painting all refugees as criminal incidentally is NOT helpful for integration.

[Puppy]

That integration however takes a lot of work and investment by the state. Painting all refugees as criminal incidentally is NOT helpful for integration.

So to overlook their violation of law. For instance the child marriage is strictly illegal (and completely silly) but tolerated, why? Has anyone ever asked those who pay for the integration if there is any benefit for them?

Incidentally? Those who lie about their age or home country to get into Germany or Sweden do it intentionally. Why everybody wants to get to Germany or other high social security standard countries only, is there a war or powerty in the rest of EU ones. No, please don't play dumb.

How can you learn a language without using it in everyday life? How comes their children can't speak German when go to elementary school, if "the integration goes well"?

The EU media isn't centralized but the censorship is obvious, everything that doesn't fit into the official EU propaganda is called a "fake news", "illegal content" or "hate" and for instance social networks are forced to delete it by latest German law (sounds very familiar to me again). And no, I don't believe any Russian RT news, neither official EU ones. Both follow their own interests that prevents them to tell the whole truth.

[coolcat37]

Stop trying to deny there is a problem. Or in which world do you live?

I am not denying any problems though, I just dislike the nefarious generalizations and crazy conspiracy theories that people like you are peddling, which in turn leads to people like the German man in Bottrop to become violent and trying to kill people.

Careful Eugene, you don't know the first thing about me. Why don't you retract your unfounded claims?

[RealBlackStuff]

Hey folks, take it easy!
Any more like this, and this thread will be closed!

[zod]

I know a guy who was flaming supporter of this vibrant diversity phenomenon, giving unconditional support to illegal economic migrations, calling everyone who dares to question his humanitarian views racists, fascists and conspiracy theorists. He even had "Welcome refugees!" stickers on his car. Last summer his underage daughter was sexually molested and heavily traumatized by a group of Afghani migrants on her way home back from school. There are no stickers on his car anymore.

[Puppy]

Sad. This is what I meant by my recent comment "And it affects well educated and intelligent people as well (until they or their close friends got directly affected by it)."

The naivety is very well pictured in my favorite movie - Monty Python's Life of Brian. Near the end, when Brian and others are going to be crucified, they walk the street between crowd and carry its crosses. There is a naive man from the crowd who helps one of them to carry the cross. What comes next is obvious, the man being helped to runs away and the naive one is crucified instead of him. The moral is to think before you help.

[Puppy]

Regarding the integration and learning local language:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/worl ... birth.html
Last year, 28 percent of the women who gave birth in Sweden had been born in another country. ... The language barrier was the biggest hurdle, said Nilantika Adin, a midwife in the unit. While city hospitals will bring interpreters into the delivery room, regional hospitals rely mostly on phone interpreters.

Wondering how long the remaining 72 percent will be able/willing to pay all of that.

[coolcat37]

While city hospitals will bring interpreters into the delivery room, regional hospitals rely mostly on phone interpreters.

That in and of itself is a Monty Python sketch right there

[coolcat37]

Actually, come to think of it.. Would that be made into a sketch in an absurdist program on tv (a translator on the phone to make communication between a midwife and a woman who is giving birth possible), it would not be accepted because it would not be politically correct.

Ironic isn't it?

[Puppy]

Many of Monty Python sketches wouldn't be accepted these days. But they had problems in BBC that time as well, thanks to many people there who loved their work it was always sorted out.

Present situaton is different. I believe it would be rejected by both television and (young) audience. The ubiquitous political correctness works like any other propaganda or totalitarian instrument, people either believe it is right because it is official or know the truth but are afraid to admit it on public. That's why I finally found useful I lived two decades in a totalitarian system because I can see all the tricks returning back again now. If there is noticeable difference between what people really think and what they can say in public (without further consequences), a big problem raises.

[ajkula66]

That's why I finally found useful I lived two decades in a totalitarian system because I can see all the tricks returning back again now. If there is noticeable difference between what people really think and what they can say in public (without further consequences), a big problem raises.

This. Times a zillion.

There was a very good reason for a retired British politician to coin the term "Euro Soviet"...

[wujstefan]

Well we had no speech freedom then - due to political conformity.
And we do not have it now. But now it is called "tolerance", "no for speech of hate" and so on.

I couldn't tell what I think living in post-soviet country dependent to USSR, and I can't do it now living so-called free country of Poland in EU.
Hopefully we are still a young country so it isn't that harsh here.

What an irony...

[Puppy]

And we do not have it now. But now it is called "tolerance", "no for speech of hate" and so on.

Exactly, any form of disagreement with the official opinion is called a "speech of hate", that's why it sounds very familiar to me It is also supported by all these "anti-hate" NGOs getting your money to do their useless and dirty job. While I visit Poland often, I am not so familiar with the situation over there. The situation with media over here is close to Italy, we have our local "Berlusconi" (Babis), the former communist secret police force agent who had stolen a lot of money in 90's during the wild privatization era. He owns the biggest news media (it helped him to win the elections) and majority of companies in food and agriculture industry. He is also involved (becoming a Minister of Finance) in new tax laws making process that helps him to get rid of remaining competition by false accusation of a tax fraud that is easy for him now. He is also connected to our current president Zeman (who is strongly oriented to Russia and China rather than EU and western world) because he had helped him in 90's to get the power he has now.

But people like him as his party ANO (english: YES) has won the elections You can still buy and read an independent newspapers but the audience is very low. Many people watch the official "correct" news and when they discover there is something wrong, they switch to the Russian propaganda web sites. Especially elderly people are exchanging tons of chain emails with this propaganda crap.

[wujstefan]

While I visit Poland often, I am not so familiar with the situation over there.

Hopefully the party in charge in Poland is EU-sceptical. They have their pros and cons. On the other hand, being completely dependent to USSR for 45 years does not leave your mind free unless enough time passes by. And it is 30 years from regaining the freedom.

[GomJabbar]

Related I think.
Tweeted by Martina Navratilova (famous tennis player, formerly from Soviet controlled Czechoslovakia).

I can tell you all this for sure- whatever ridiculous propaganda we were fed in then Czechoslovakia, which was mandated by Soviet Union- pales next to the lies being told and repeated by trump and his ilk. I am not kidding…
trump truly trumps the communists. And that’s not easy

https://twitter.com/martina/status/1082 ... 44993?s=11

[coolcat37]

"An Afghan asylum seeker has carried out a horrible attack on a pregnant Polish woman, repeatedly stabbing her at a German hospital. The man was caught by police but his victim had lost her unborn child.

The frenzied attack happened on Friday at a hospital in the town of Bad Kreuznach, near the city of Mainz, where the victim, a 25-year old Polish national was staying."

What can one say about such things, really?

[Puppy]

What can one say about such things, really?

His motivations for the assault remain unclear. Let me guess ... the medieval religion again? And as usually, no local media brought the news. Russian propaganda has won again.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-man-stabs ... a-47062631 if you filter news here by 'stabbing' keyword you get almost what you'd expect

[Puppy]

trump truly trumps the communists. And that’s not easy

A bit exaggregated and out of context (she lives in the US since 1975, it was impossible for 99.9% of people here that time). Communist propaganda won't allow any public discussion nor any different than official opinion. While many of US residents don't like him and his politics, it can not be compared to any totalitarian system at all. He was elected by people, not by the system.

[GomJabbar]

trump truly trumps the communists. And that’s not easy

A bit exaggregated and out of context (she lives in the US since 1975, it was impossible for 99.9% of people here that time). Communist propaganda won't allow any public discussion nor any different than official opinion. While many of US residents don't like him and his politics, it can not be compared to any totalitarian system at all. He was elected by people, not by the system.

Trump does not have the power the communist leaders have had and still have. It is not a totalitarian system here as of yet. Nevertheless, that does not diminish his ambitions and obvious lies. Whether dissension against propaganda is allowed or not does not determine whether it is propaganda. An internet betting site just lost a bundle on Trumps recent 9 minute Oval Office Speech...

Donald Trump’s loose grip on the truth just cost one gambling site dearly.

Before the president’s address on border security Tuesday night, Bookmaker.eu put the over/under on the number of lies he’d spew at 3.5. For bettors, it was a no-brainer, as hundreds of thousands of dollars loaded up on the over.

In fact, Bookmaker odds consultant John Lester told MarketWatch that the site has never seen such a lopsided response from its customers.

“Never in our 30-year history have we been this one-sided (9 to 1) on a wager,” he said. “You would have to go back to the early Mike Tyson fights (pre-Buster Douglas) to find a wager with comparable one-sided demand.”

Lester explained that no matter how much he adjusted the odds, hardly anybody seemed interested in taking the under. Smart move, considering the Washington Post found that there were at least six false statements during the address.

President Trump’s truthiness makes history as betting site pays out bigly

FYI, Trump became president by the Electoral College vote, not by the general public who voted. Clinton actually won the popular vote. Technically Trump was not elected by the people.

[dr_st]

FYI, Trump became president by the Electoral College vote, not by the general public who voted. Clinton actually won the popular vote. Technically Trump was not elected by the people.

We all know that, I believe; Trump indeed became president by the Electoral College vote, who cast their votes based on how the general public had voted in their respective states, according to the system that was put in places ages ago, used in every presidential election, and known to all parties before the election. Nothing alike to a system where a small group (the party) elects a leader without even asking the general public.

[Puppy]

EU is no longer capable to protect its borders

No one talks more about landing platforms and EU refugee centers. And the border guard is missing for the expansion of Frontex - why the reform of the EU migration policy stagnates
https://www.nzz.ch/international/migrat ... ld.1446596

[Puppy]

Suspect confessed killing of 16-year-old
https://www.kleinezeitung.at/service/ne ... 6Jaehriger

The suspected Syrian was arrested on Sunday at 23:58 clock by the Task Force for combating street crime in Vienna-Favoriten.

The 19-year-old Syrian had an upright asylum status. A withdrawal procedure against the man was discontinued in 2018, said Christoph Pölzl, spokesman for the Ministry of the Interior, on an APA request to the Federal Office for Aliens and Asylum. A corresponding procedure was therefore initiated again on Monday.

How many innocent people will be killed by the imported trash because of the silly decision of EU politicians