EU seems to be in danger...

[Radioguy]

Who's pushing that theory?

Jews.

In reality, there are plenty of culturally-identifing Jews who are secular, atheist, agnostic, etc. and enjoy their brisket and bagels.

The key here is culturally-identifying. And yep, there are indeed many such Jews as you described. They still belong to the Jewish faith, even if they are secular, and even if they are completely atheist.

Judaism does not recognize one without the other. You can be agnostic, or atheist and still be Jewish, yes. But you cannot, for example, be a proclaimed follower of a different religion (be it Buddhism, Christianity, Islam or whatever) and still be considered "Jewish". Or, you can consider yourself any way you like, but no branch of Judaism will recognize you.

Thanks for admitting that part. I was going to pass out from laughing so hard.

The definition of Jewish as recognized by the state of Israel is "a person who was born to a Jewish mother, or converted to Judaism, and does not belong to any other religion".

You espouse a narrow orthodox view which thankfully not all share. You might be surprised how many feel otherwise.

[mpcook]

Jews.

The key here is culturally-identifying. And yep, there are indeed many such Jews as you described. They still belong to the Jewish faith, even if they are secular, and even if they are completely atheist.

Judaism does not recognize one without the other. You can be agnostic, or atheist and still be Jewish, yes. But you cannot, for example, be a proclaimed follower of a different religion (be it Buddhism, Christianity, Islam or whatever) and still be considered "Jewish". Or, you can consider yourself any way you like, but no branch of Judaism will recognize you.

Thanks for admitting that part. I was going to pass out from laughing so hard.

The definition of Jewish as recognized by the state of Israel is "a person who was born to a Jewish mother, or converted to Judaism, and does not belong to any other religion".

You espouse a narrow orthodox view which thankfully not all share. You might be surprised how many feel otherwise.

No need to laugh. There are varying definitions of a Jew, the "narrow orthodox view" or definition being "born of a Jewish mother". The Israeli definition is pretty broad in fact. Judaism is both a cultural (ethnic) and religious group, with varying degrees within.

[dr_st]

The definition of Jewish as recognized by the state of Israel is "a person who was born to a Jewish mother, or converted to Judaism, and does not belong to any other religion".

You espouse a narrow orthodox view which thankfully not all share. You might be surprised how many feel otherwise.

I presented the definition that is the official policy of the state of Israel. If you have a problem with that definition, take it with them, not with me. I live here, that's true, but I do not determine state policy.

Simply by living where I do, I interact on a various basis with many different kinds of Jews and non-Jews, and am aware of many views. I doubt you can provide some point of view on this subject that will surprise me.

[TPFanatic]

I thought Israel used whatever definition Nazi Germany used of Jews, so as to say if you were considered Jewish in persecution, you will be protected in Israel...

[dr_st]

I thought Israel used whatever definition Nazi Germany used of Jews, so as to say if you were considered Jewish in persecution, you will be protected in Israel...

Yes, but it's slightly different.

For the purpose of the law of return, Israel follows the definition that Nazi Germany used - it accepts anyone if at least one of their grandparents is Jewish, and their immediate families as well. However, these people are not automatically considered Jewish, unless they meet the definition I gave above. They get full civil rights, but cannot get married in a Jewish marriage ceremony, for example.