EU seems to be in danger...

Talk about "WhatEVER !"..
Post Reply
Message
Author
boodi
Freshman Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Padova, Italy

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#31 Post by boodi » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:06 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
boodi wrote:I'm not convinced the future is educated human robots with debts into a shy horizon .. or apocalypse
What, the new version of American Dream is not appealing to you? Shameful... :twisted:
I'm seriously not convinced this is the horizon that lays ahead .. humans will redeem
there's actually more then 1 different not bad result , of societies coping differently with debts and , more in general , with the pervert bank debt system
If I end up having to learn Norwegian at my old age in order to stay away from cancer that EU is nowadays, I'll be happy to do so...at least I'll be able to read Hamsun's works in his native language...
a friend of mine lives in Norway , or well .. i don't see it from some time now ..
it's been 10 years now he leaves there , went there without knowing a word , started repairing house gates ..pretty happy , calm , and changed.. was primed for it though .. naturally spiritual and abit zen
norwegians and tibetans have some shares
etc /offtopic

coolcat37
Freshman Member
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:38 am
Location: Belgium

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#32 Post by coolcat37 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:16 pm

ajkula66 wrote:If I end up having to learn Norwegian at my old age in order to stay away from cancer that EU is nowadays, I'll be happy to do so...at least I'll be able to read Hamsun's works in his native language...
Are the US better than the EU?

Dekks
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:38 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#33 Post by Dekks » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:22 am

Firstly this wasn't a vote about the EU, it was largely fought on only 1 issue - immigration.
Puppy wrote:It is just incompetence of Brussel's bureaucrats. They are not able to solve anything except vacuum cleaners power restrictions. I am definitely pleased by the brexit poll result. It is the only hope to rebuild Europe. There is no way to fix current EU monster, it is beyond repair.
I think your wrong, the real issue is the self serving politicians who see a EU superstate as a gravy train for life. There is plenty of EU scepticism to see a change of course, if Hollande and Merkel get a kicking in the polls who knows the UK might not need to leave. The one downside atm is the number of right-wing nazis who ride on the coat tails of the euro-sceptics.
Arch//Openbox R61//GNOME 3 X201i/X230 Tablet //Spectrwm T61/X61/X61 Debian 9/X32
Work - Win7/X220T BunsenLabs T43
Retired T60p/T60/X30/X31/X61S RIP T400/T21/X61T/X200T

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 15731
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#34 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:29 am

coolcat37 wrote:
ajkula66 wrote:If I end up having to learn Norwegian at my old age in order to stay away from cancer that EU is nowadays, I'll be happy to do so...at least I'll be able to read Hamsun's works in his native language...
Are the US better than the EU?
That's like choosing between lung cancer and brain tumour. Both are pretty horrible.

Do bear in mind that I'm a transplanted European who never really got used to living in the U.S. and is intent on going back in a few years when the retirement time comes.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: R61

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#35 Post by Ibthink » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:04 am

Of course the EU gets blamed for many things. The fact no one can deny however, is that we never had such a long-lasting period of peace on the European continent, which has a lot to do with the EC / EU. I am glad we have the EU.

Regarding the EU being bureaucratic, yeah, she is. However, if you want to have a common market, you also need common standards for it to work. So in that way, it has to be bureaucratic to a certain degree.

As a German, I think austerity is horrible. It doesn´t work, and it only serves to destroy the solidarity between the states. Its horrible to see our own government force this useless concept on Southern Europe - and the political situation here in Germany is really hopeless, next year Merkel is going to be re-elected, mark my words. In the minds of many people here in Germany, there is just no alternative. Regarding leadership, Germany really is reluctant to take the lead. However, there is no one else willing to, France is still in crisis, as is Italy. And the UK is leaving now....

On the other hand I also have to say that Germany (alongside the UK) is the biggest contributor to the subsidies system, from which many weaker countries, particularly Eastern European profit. Its no wonder that Eastern Europe was shocked by the Brexit...they don´t want Europe to fall apart, they profit from it.

I strongly disagree with the negative sentiments regarding the refugees. It was the right decision to briefly open the doors for refugees, it was humanitarian. The Western states have to take the blame for letting the Syrian war escalate, so its only fair we too help the Syrian people and the other states surrounding Syria by taking some of these people in and giving them shelter.

Regarding Brexit, its funny to see now after the referendum how quickly the pro-Brexit people started to renounce their promises. Not only did they lie about the 350 million pounds that the EU gets weekly (the EU gets far less) and this money going to the NHS, they also of course lied about the immigration, one of the biggest reasons many people voted pro-Brexit - after all, they want to have a similar status as Switzerland, and for that, they will have to allow immigration. Want to have the common market? Well, then you have to allow free EU immigration.

Really interesting to see an entire nation being conned by these liars.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

boodi
Freshman Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Padova, Italy

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#36 Post by boodi » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:12 am

Ibthink wrote: In the minds of many people here in Germany, there is just no alternative
why?
On the other hand I also have to say that Germany (alongside the UK) is the biggest contributor to the subsidies system,
Germany is the nation that has the most to loose if Europe breaks apart.
not that western regions do not have to loose ; in facts will never happen ( that Europe falls completely apart in pieces ) now that there is a monetary union , even if not fiscal still , and a shared currency . So we're just amusing ,..around a lot of pleasant speculations.. like medias always do ..
Ibthink wrote:
Really interesting to see an entire nation being conned by these liars.
I've had the idea , in London city at least , that people were quite always being 50/50 about being or not in Europe - before immigration.
immigration was a pretext and a push . But I respect the vote of the locals . I really cant see England going PIIGS in 2 - 3 years now . May be some adjustment , before cooking their own ideas , which i'm pretty sure will be good , for their nation .

If i were a UK citizen , i would have not been sure , to vote to remain .

boodi
Freshman Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Padova, Italy

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#37 Post by boodi » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:32 am

by a UK citizen : who pretty nails and sums many things about the matter
The Eu is ablaze because lacks enormously , in spirit and in facts , the 2 places have been occupied , in waiting too long for states to reach the requested austerity measures ( it can't be 50 years though ,..) , and eventually flattened the different goods , different ideas , and inputs , to close to zero .
It simply lacked air to breath , in many segments of life not just business and work , everything feels nearly afreeze forever : it was also for the fear that this happened ( a part calling himself out ... so that eventually things now have to be rediscussed , the damage has been alive from years yet though )
Reuters wrote: Why I voted for Brexit: it is because the EU house is ablaze
By Jerome Booth

Published: June 27, 2016 8:54 a.m. ET






The ineffectiveness of European leaders has been astounding, says Jerome Booth


I am pleased that my country has chosen to say halt to undemocratic and dysfunctional governance, even as I am aware that there are major challenges for Britain ahead. I do believe Westminster can do better than Brussels for the simple reason that our government and MPs are more likely to be kept in check by the electorate.

Democracy is often frustrating for policy-making. It is messy and very hard work. It is very easy to slip into a preference for technocratic solutions. Democracies also facilitate major policy U-turns when needed.

The EU (certainly from the British electorate’s perspective) has a massive democratic deficit — and that, above all, has been its undoing. This is not to say that it is entirely undemocratic, just nothing like enough. I am also not arguing that Westminster is some panacea — indeed its democratic vibrancy is somewhat tarnished due to the presence of the EU, the decline in mass-membership parties and affluent complacency.

I believe, however, that the interests of the British people and economy are best served by our own independent legislature, and homegrown social and economic policies. I believe an independent vibrant financial center requires its own currency, and that the British economy is better off with our own monetary, fiscal, trade and structural policies.


People abhor uncertainty, however, and often cling to false certainties. “Project Fear” has been built on highly partial economic guesswork (otherwise called modeling: the game is to make the necessary assumptions to reach the desired conclusion) and the idea that there is huge uncertainty for the UK outside the EU but none inside the EU. Yet uncertainty is not restricted to life outside the EU. Indeed, EU stability has for a while been a fiction. The EU’s failures are too large, its ability to reform too limited.

The EU was always a political project, a hugely successful one in many ways. It sometimes took years, but every major initiative since the Treaty of Rome in 1957 has been eventually initiated, in the inexorable if sometimes numbingly slow move to “ever closer union”. Yet that there have been delays but no outright reversals is in itself telling — a sign of following a long-term plan despite, not driven by, the ebb and flow of whims of the broader citizenry.

The idea of “Europe” has had a powerful hold over the peoples of our continent and leaders have grown adept at overcoming the many obstacles of creating policy consensus from so many disparate parts through enormous efforts of negotiation, persuasion and threat. The effort and its outcome are indeed impressive, but that is not a reason in itself to support the status quo.

This historical process of building the EU has been necessarily and essentially between member governments, not at the instigation of electorates. Overall policy direction, not just individual policies, has been designed by technocrats. In terms of logic and consistency (though not necessarily in implementation) this may appear superior to the products of a more democratic (chaotic) process.

And what is wrong with that? The answer is that there is no common ownership, no widespread sense of belonging that can compete with the nation state.

The trade-off between legitimacy and superior policy, moreover, if it ever existed, has now evaporated. The EU does not have the benefit of a fresh dictatorship that can make bold decisions. It does not have the ability to change in the face of overwhelmingly changed circumstances. Any management consultant will tell you that a board of 28 members is a recipe for inaction and a lack of momentum. With 28 countries whose primary loyalties are back home to their countrymen and not with the common (EU-wide) good, the most likely outcome is slow adjustment based on technocratic argument — and that is what we have.

But this lacks necessary dynamism. What is most lacking is the ability to conceive and effect radical policy change. The status quo is too comfortable, the existing grooves of thought inadequately challenged for healthy reassessment. Since the financial crisis of 2008, seriously radical reform has been desperately needed yet sorely lacking.

The ineffectiveness of European leaders has been astounding. Only the wealth of the EU has preventing macroeconomic catastrophe so far. Unsustainable polices have been persevered with, year after year. Denial reigns supreme nearly a decade after the death of “The Great Moderation”: denial about the nature of the economic problems and the best policy solutions. Above all, the dangers of a repeat of 2008 are frighteningly ignored, even if a little double-think has crept in here and there.

So I hope our European partners take this shocking British news in the right spirit. The house is ablaze and we’ve decided to shout Fire! Very rude of us, I know. Sorry.

RealBlackStuff
Admin
Admin
Posts: 17485
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 am
Location: Mt. Cobb, PA USA
Contact:

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#38 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:23 am

Ibthink wrote:Regarding Brexit...., they also of course lied about the immigration, one of the biggest reasons many people voted pro-Brexit - after all, they want to have a similar status as Switzerland, and for that, they will have to allow immigration.
There is NO free immigration into Switzerland.
To get into Switzerland, you need to have a job-contract valid for at least a year, or show proof of financial independence.
I know, I have lived there for nearly 25 years. Back then it took my employer 8 months to get me a Swiss B-Permit, which had to be renewed every year. I was allowed into Switzerland right away, but during those 8 months [without a permit] I was NOT allowed to get my own place to stay! So I lived in a hotel for 8 months (lucky for me at my employer's expense).
After 5 years I got a permanent C-Permit, but those still have to be renewed every 3 years.
It is an (admittedly beautiful) country, but at the same time it is a police state where you are under constant observation!
Everything must be done by the book!
Eventually I had enough and left in 1999 to go back to Ireland (worse weather, but nicer people).

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#39 Post by Ibthink » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:20 am

If you left in 1999, you left before Switzerland became part of the Schengen treaty in 2008, which means open borders. They also signed a free movement of people treaty in 1999 with the EU, so movement into Switzerland from a EU country has gotten easier. You no longer need a visa for example. Of course you still need to prove that you can provide for yourself if you want to stay longer then 3 months. Read here: http://www.expatica.com/ch/visas-and-pe ... 43220.html

What my argument was: Pro Brexit people said that they would regain complete control over migration, and the ability to close the borders completely. But they won´t. Not if they want to stay in the common market.
boodi wrote:why?
German national politics are complex, but lets just say that we really don´t have many politicians considered to be "Good/OK" at the moment, who are willing to compete with Merkel in the elections. Merkels style of politics makes it very difficult to compete with her, and she has basically destroyed any coalition partner she had so far (often compared to a black widow^^).

2017 elections will likely end up with a conservative/green coalition or conservative/social-democrat yet again, with Merkel staying chancellor, and with austerity staying in place. The other big party, the social-democrats, are too weak to take over government, they are hovering around at 20 - 25 % in polls. They have a difficult time fighting Merkel since they are part of the government and thus also responsible for all decisions they may criticize. They also lost massive trust after the last government they led, due to very neo-liberal policies, similar to Labour in the UK under Tony Blair.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

evening_hunger
Sophomore Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:55 pm
Location: Rouen, France

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#40 Post by evening_hunger » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:04 am

Went to Switzerland last year. As I'm a EU citizen, entry took me 5 minutes, 4.5 of which was to buy a highway ticket.

As for Brexit, we will see. I'm a scientist and I know that as long as nothing happens, we're just talkin' opinions here, which facts are yet to happen. Some are expecting one set future for UK, some the other. From my perspective: let's just wait 5 years and reopen this thread. Before that, it's just hate speech all over.

Over a 100 years ago Einstein proposed something that would dwarf the EU superstate: the World Government. UN is de facto it's caricature. I have no illusions of living to see it, and it is truly sad to read some of the comments here as it seems even my grandchildren will have a hard time seeing it. But we already have (1) an universally usable Esperanto (English) (2) good communications (Internet). So, here's hoping, grandchildren (once you're born...)
x220/i7-2620M/8GB/256gb.ssd/ips/debian (main driver)
x230/i5/8GB/500gb.hdd+256gb.m2ssd/tn/debian+win7 (better half)

RealBlackStuff
Admin
Admin
Posts: 17485
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 am
Location: Mt. Cobb, PA USA
Contact:

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#41 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:22 am

evening_hunger wrote:Went to Switzerland last year. As I'm a EU citizen, entry took me 5 minutes, 4.5 of which was to buy a highway ticket.
I wasn't talking about tourists...


The UK (or rather: England) has always been rather insular.
George Orwell had a few things to say in his book "1984" which are still valid today.
George Orwell wrote:But at the same time the vast majority of the people feel themselves to be a single nation and are conscious of resembling one another more than they resemble foreigners.
Patriotism is usually stronger than class-hatred, and always stronger than any kind of internationalism.
Read this: http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ll/488057/

boodi
Freshman Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Padova, Italy

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#42 Post by boodi » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:24 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
evening_hunger wrote:Went to Switzerland last year. As I'm a EU citizen, entry took me 5 minutes, 4.5 of which was to buy a highway ticket.
I wasn't talking about tourists...
:lol:

i purpose a double blind misunderstanding test to get home with no wounds and no wounded

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#43 Post by Ibthink » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:36 am

Sentiments such as nationalism can change over time, although very slowly. Best example is my own country. Before 1806, Germany was split into hundreds of tiny nations. Getting the nation to be one was very hard, because before people didn´t feel like Germans. They felt like Bavarians, Prussian, Swabian etc. . But over time the regional nationalistic feelings slowly went away for the most part.

To quote the famous first line of the Deutschlandlied "Deutschland Deutschland über alles" (Germany over everything) - due to the misuse by the Nazis and other nationalists, foreigners think this means that Germany is superior to every other state. However, the intended meaning when it was written was "Germany is more important then the regional states", as it was written in 1841 when Germany was still split in many smaller states.

Of course something like that takes its time, and I think we are still pretty far away from a "World Government", the UN does not function as one in its current state. However, getting the continent most burned by nationalism through two World Wars to unite may be a first step in this direction, replacing national pride with a sort of European pride. However, for that to work, we would need a truly democratic EU that works. The current system is pretty dysfunctional because its too complicated, too many compromise solutions.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#44 Post by Puppy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:35 am

Dekks wrote:There is plenty of EU scepticism to see a change of course, if Hollande and Merkel get a kicking in the polls who knows the UK might not need to leave.
Don't forget Juncker. Unfortunately "if" does not count.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#45 Post by Puppy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:43 am

Ibthink wrote:I strongly disagree with the negative sentiments regarding the refugees. It was the right decision to briefly open the doors for refugees, it was humanitarian.
Have you noticed that most of them are not true refugees, just people hunting for money from your (German) social security system ? And what about all these growing no-go zones ? I wouldn't have anything against a real refugees accepting local culture but this is not the case.

We have had a group of a 30 of them from Iraq over here. They get accomodation (of better standard than most people here have) and so on. Within a month, all of them had tried to get to Germany illegally. When they were caught by german police, all of them returned to their home country later in few weeks. Similar story had happened in Poland. Sorry, I don't accept that.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#46 Post by Ibthink » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:24 am

Of course there are some bad cases, not denying that at all. But the vast majority of the refugees here in Germany are from Syria, and they really are refugees, since in reality most of Syria is a warzone. I would rather have some of these people here then have them decapitated by ISIS.

Regarding so called "no go" zones, you are mixing up multiple issues there. Yes, this issue exists, but it existed a long time before the refugees from Syria came here. For example, in Berlin there are these Jordan families who came to Germany in the 80s. These people were not properly integrated, and they became criminal. Or, in the case of Cologne (which was in the news on New Years eve for sexual assault), these are people from Marokko/Algeria descent, who came to Europe via France, unrelated to the refugee crisis.

Not saying that other countries like the Czech republic have to take in many refugees like Germany did, but I think there should be some respect for the German decision. After all, this was also a decision to help countries like Greece and Italy, countries on the border of the EU, who otherwise would have to handle the bulk of refugees.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

AIX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:10 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania, EU

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#47 Post by AIX » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:30 am

Ibthink wrote: On the other hand I also have to say that Germany (alongside the UK) is the biggest contributor to the subsidies system, from which many weaker countries, particularly Eastern European profit. Its no wonder that Eastern Europe was shocked by the Brexit...they don´t want Europe to fall apart, they profit from it.
I think not only the Eastern Europe profit but all of the European/EU countries. The Western Europe isn't giving these monies out of pure generosity, but for the market access, brain drain, peace and political stability. Also, the bigger we are, the stronger we are, the EU can negotiate better deals with China, US, etc.
Ibthink wrote: It was the right decision to briefly open the doors for refugees, it was humanitarian. The Western states have to take the blame for letting the Syrian war escalate, so its only fair we too help the Syrian people and the other states surrounding Syria by taking some of these people in and giving them shelter.
I agree, the refugees should be helped, but in a more controlled way, they literally passed many countries without any check. If I remember correctly only ~35% of them are sirians refugees? And they should not have the right to choose which EU country to pick but to accept the EU relocating/quota.
T430 · i7-3632QM · 12GB RAM · 512GB SSD · HD+ · NVIDIA NVS 5400M · H5321gw
T420s · i5-2520M · 12GB RAM · 480GB SSD · HD+ · HD3000 · F5521gw
T60 · T2500 · 3GB RAM · 128GB SSD · 14.1 SXGA+ · 128MB ATI X1400
Past: T400, T41, T22, 600X, 390X

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#48 Post by Puppy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:12 am

AIX wrote:I agree, the refugees should be helped, but in a more controlled way, they literally passed many countries without any check. If I remember correctly only ~35% of them are sirians refugees?
Many of them have either no documents or fake documents. This is common source of all issues, quote:

Uruguay accepted the 42 Syrians fleeing civil war in October 2014, but the families said they felt the leftist government had failed to deliver on a promise of good incomes.

Can I move to Germany under similar conditions with no/fake documents ? Prices (converted to Euro) of almost everything over here is higher than in Germany while still having 25% of their salary level only. Can I ask for "good income" there ? :roll:
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

AIX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:10 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania, EU

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#49 Post by AIX » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:13 am

Don't worry, your refugees already left for GermanyGermoney. At least they didn't cry when entered Czech Republic. :)
T430 · i7-3632QM · 12GB RAM · 512GB SSD · HD+ · NVIDIA NVS 5400M · H5321gw
T420s · i5-2520M · 12GB RAM · 480GB SSD · HD+ · HD3000 · F5521gw
T60 · T2500 · 3GB RAM · 128GB SSD · 14.1 SXGA+ · 128MB ATI X1400
Past: T400, T41, T22, 600X, 390X

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#50 Post by Puppy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:39 am

Today they have been returned to Czech republic by german court decision in Dresden (read the story in czech or german, use your favorite automatic translator). That's the family that had got the free accomodation of better than average local standard and said: "It looks like a renovated and decorated cowshed". The statement had been denied later as "incorrect translation" :roll: No, you can not improve reality by lies.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#51 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:27 am

Puppy wrote:Can I move to Germany under similar conditions with no/fake documents ? Prices (converted to Euro) of almost everything over here is higher than in Germany while still having 25% of their salary level only. Can I ask for "good income" there ?
As an EU citizen from a Schengen state, you can move to Germany, sure. Thats what we have a combined market with free movement for.

You can ask for good income, but good income is not guaranteed, neither for you nor for the refugees. The difference is, if you want to come here, you can start working immediately, and all your degrees will be useful here in Germany as well. Refugees from other countries, non-EU non-Schengen are not allowed to work for many months, until their legal status clears up, and their degrees are worth almost nothing here.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#52 Post by Puppy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:16 pm

Ibthink wrote:The difference is, if you want to come here, you can start working immediately
Or rather "you have to start working immediately" ? That's the subtle difference.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#53 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:40 pm

No, you don´t, why would you, as an EU citizen. You can come here and don´t work at all. But then, if you don´t want to work, you are not going to have a "good income". :roll: If you don´t work, you are also not going to get state support, of course.

Migration between Czech Republic and Germany is free for EU citizens. You need no residence permit. The only thing you have to do, is to register at the registration office, and you need to posses a valid EU passport. Thats all.

I could migrate to Czech Republic anytime if I wanted to. :)
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#54 Post by Puppy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:56 pm

Ibthink wrote:If you don´t work, you are also not going to get state support, of course.
This is the difference, at least according reported news about Germany over here. These refugees (regardless of true or fake ones) gets the state support, even long term, by doing nothing.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#55 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:44 pm

Yes, they do, of course. They come here with virtually nothing, if they have any money, its gonna be confiscated anyway. Since they are not allowed to work for certain time, and even when they are allowed to work its likely many might not easily find a job, they get state support. The alternative would be to let them die / go into poverty, and likely become criminal. Of course this is only true for people with asylum status. People who come here for economic reasons only won´t get much, if anything. And the people with asylum status just get shelter, food and a very small amount of pocket money.

EU citizens who come here to work are here exclusively for economic reasons, there is no war going on in the EU. Till now, they would get full state support after 6 months, but the government will change this, in the future, an EU citizen living in Germany will have to either work first and then get state support, or he has to have lived at least 5 years in Germany, then he will get state support anyway. People who come here and don´t want to work will get an emergency relief for 4 weeks, which includes things like shelter and food. After four weeks, they can get a small credit for the journey back to the EU country where they come from, to get state support there.

I don´t really see your problem with this. You can come here anytime, and start to work for the higher German salaries you want. We always welcome new citizens here in Germany. :D
Last edited by Ibthink on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#56 Post by Puppy » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:48 pm

Who cares about brexit after all. EU has much more important tasks to complete, currently the REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL on requirements relating to emission limits and type-approval for internal combustion engines for non-road mobile machinery. UK is really getting into troubles without that.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

AIX
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:10 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania, EU

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#57 Post by AIX » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:37 am

T430 · i7-3632QM · 12GB RAM · 512GB SSD · HD+ · NVIDIA NVS 5400M · H5321gw
T420s · i5-2520M · 12GB RAM · 480GB SSD · HD+ · HD3000 · F5521gw
T60 · T2500 · 3GB RAM · 128GB SSD · 14.1 SXGA+ · 128MB ATI X1400
Past: T400, T41, T22, 600X, 390X

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#58 Post by Ibthink » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:17 am

I don´t understand why this is problematic. If you have a common market, you need common standards. This is a big part of what the EU does, set common standards that are valid in every EU country.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#59 Post by Puppy » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:22 am

Ibthink wrote:I don´t understand why this is problematic. If you have a common market, you need common standards. This is a big part of what the EU does, set common standards that are valid in every EU country.
The EU is almost before collapse but the regulation of vacuum cleaners power or combustion engines is still the most important task for them. History is repeating, it reminds the Rome Empire fall ...

Every time you think it can not be worse there is another "bright idea" introduced :? Just another step toward to establish a clerical police.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: EU seems to be in danger... My home country Ireland close to the brunt...

#60 Post by Ibthink » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:30 am

Last time I checked, EU was not collapsing. UK leaving is one thing, the collapse of the EU something else - so far it doesn´t seem like there are other states who want to follow the UK. On the contrary, Scotland might leave the UK to re-enter the EU in case of Brexit. So declaring the death of the EU as a whole is a bit premature now.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Off-Topic Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: thinkpadcollection and 2 guests