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My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

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alisan
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My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#1 Post by alisan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:57 am

I would like to share here my bad experience with IPS panels, and would like to hear from you guys, hopping that I'm not alone :(

x220/x230
My first thinkpad was a second hand x220 that I got during my visit to Japan. Back home I got a LP125WH2-SLB3 IPS panel, I have contacted the vendor before to make sure he sends me a tested unit with no dead pixels. Panel mounted, overall okay, but it has image retention and a tiny but visible white spot...

I have used it for quite long time, until I dropped my x220 and panel got damaged. I decided to get what seems to be the best option, the LP125WH2-SLT1. Contacted the buyer, he offered me a LP125WH2-SLT2 saying that they have in stock units with left/right mounting holes and it is a better quality than the LP125WH2-SLT1. Panel received, mounted on my x220, high pitch "whining" noise and panel occasionally flickers... Unusable. Contacted the seller, he sent another unit, horrible one I would say, it works, but image retention will make you blind. Colors are terrible too. Way inferior than the previous one, although they have the same LP125WH2-SLT2 sticker :eek:

Finally I got a LP125WH2-SLT1 from win0win ebay reseller. 3 dead pixels, big white spot, terrible matte finish, low frequency PWM that gave me headache after 5 minutes. Garbage...

T460
This is a laptop my university got for me. Unboxed, bum, two dead pixels, not enough to ask Lenovo for replacement. After 6 month of rare use (I mostly use my x230), screen developed white spots everywhere, yay I could ask Lenovo for a replacement, technician came to me and replaced my screen, terrible colors (I think it is the one used in the T470), two greenish pixels (not totally dead).

T60
Not the same tragic story as the x220/x230. I would say this is to be expected since the T60 screens are quite old. The T60 that I got to make a Frankenpad had white and blue spots. Got a LQ150U1LH22, had lots of dead pixels, and white spots. I got a idtech IAUX14P, which is okay in all aspects, no dead pixels, nice colors, no white spots, but the screen is ticker and heavier than the stock one, but I didn't care much, as I use my frankendpad mostly like a desktop. Unfortunately the screen got dimmer quite quickly (it is quite old). I have successfully done the LED mod, but the screen showed a very annoying strips pattern coming from the leds. Decided to get a "modern" CCFL tube to install it back and to get rid of the leds, but I broke the screen in the process :mrgreen:

Now my x230 is my daily driver, I'll put back the TN B125XW01 :banana: display as I really don't want to throw more money on crappy IPS panels that are found everywhere.

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#2 Post by Puppy » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:37 am

Some 14" WQHD and 15" 4K (except P50) ones are the only decent panels, others are cheapest crap Lenovo prefers. White spots is typical Lenovo quality issue, especially on X1 Carbon.

Basically if you want a decent display you have to pick different brand than Lenovo :(
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#3 Post by alisan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:49 am

Puppy wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:37 am
Basically if you want a decent display you have to pick different brand than Lenovo :(
I'm coming to this conclusion as well. My wife uses a mac book air 2013 that has a TN panel, but it is a wonderful bright colorful TN panel, better than any carppy IPS screen I've seen on the > T440 series... Of course the keyboard is what makes the difference for me, the mac's and other brand's keyboard are not usable to my taste.

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#4 Post by dr_st » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:47 am

Wow, that is a string of bad experiences. :( I do feel your run with IPS panels is worse than that of the average Thinkpadder.

I have had IPS panels on my:
  • T42 - LG SXGA+ IPS replaced due to white spot 2.5 years into the warranty; new screen had no issues. Eventually developed normal brightness loss / yellowing typical for LG panels of that time. Laptop was heavily used for some time after that by sister who frequently squashed it in her bag; developed multiple white spots and pressure marks, but at that point system was 8+ years old, nobody cared.
  • T60 - LG SXGA+ IPS - also replaced due to white spot at some point during the warranty; also eventually lost brightness and yellowed, but no other issues (laptop was mostly used at the desk)
  • X220 - LG HD IPS - replaced towards the end of the warranty due to white spot + excessive image retention. Eventually got an -SLB3, which is rather issue free. Laptop is not used as much as before, so far no issues have re-developed. Full story here and here.
  • T430s - with the FHD IPS AU Optronics B140HAN01.2 mod - the youngest laptop in the bunch, had it for a little under a year; so far no issues observed.
I feel that I'm probably not sensitive to PWM as much as some, and maybe if I was, I would like the X220 IPS screen less, cause I guess it uses PWM? I do remember that I had to use the Intel driver hack to stop it from forcing the refresh rate to 50Hz when on battery, cause that did cause some annoyance.

When you mention "image retention" - do you refer to the static kind (image gets "burned in" and leaves an after-shadow for a few minutes, even after picture changes) or the dynamic kind (what is referred to as 'ghosting', when fast moving images leave a blurry trail). The former is the problem which is very noticeable on early X220/X230 IPS panels (-SLB1 and to a lesser extent -SLB3).
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

alisan
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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#5 Post by alisan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:58 am

dr_st wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:47 am
When you mention "image retention" - do you refer to the static kind (image gets "burned in" and leaves an after-shadow for a few minutes, even after picture changes) or the dynamic kind (what is referred to as 'ghosting', when fast moving images leave a blurry trail). The former is the problem which is very noticeable on early X220/X230 IPS panels (-SLB1 and to a lesser extent -SLB3).
The former, image leaves after-shadow for few minutes.

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#6 Post by edik » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:18 am

Bestscreen I ever had.. better even than T43p flexview was the 15" UXGA screen in the (2001) Dell C810...
7E889
Subassembly, Liquid Crystal Display, TFT, Ultra Extended Graphics Array, IBM, Malaysia Direct Ship
Looking at the Dell Parts Inventory for the screen... no surprise that the screen was actually manufactured by IBM... :mrgreen:

Think it was the same panel as in the A21p...

2018: T550/16/IPS 3K Touch/72Wh
2007-2018: T450, T520/i7-2760QM/8GB/320GB, WSXGA+, X200s, T500, A31p, A30p, T42p, X60s, X32, X31
Gone but not forgotten 1998-2006: 2006 T43p 2668-H2G (2GB/60), T22 2648-8EG (128/20) 2005 X40, X31 2004 T30 SXGA+, 600X, 2003 770 P233+DVD Card, 760XD 1998 760XL+104MB

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#7 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:49 am

Best screen I ever saw still has to be the W700 LCD. The slightly warm tone of the LCD is so great and the CCFL bulbs are bright though it is TN.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#8 Post by thelash » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:38 pm

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I have an X220 fitted with a brand SLT1 panel about 18 months ago. No problems with dead pixels, if there's pwm I don't notice it. Great for watching videos, probably slightly less max brightness compared to the TN I had, but everything else good. Also, I find the Win10 night light setting very easy on the eyes.
x220 i5, 8gb samsung 1600mhz ram, win10 and linux mint on 256gb msata sdd, 500gb data hdd

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#9 Post by wujstefan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:13 am

Ouch, this is quite a hit :/

1. A31p with UXGA IPS screen. Great screen in its time, I do own it / don't use it much. Got a bit dimmer, but still all right. No white spots, no dead pixels.
2. A42p and its UXGA IPS panel - got a typical aging issues, but nothing dramatic.
3. R50p - see above. This one got yellow quickly, but still no pixel issues or whitey spots.
4. T43 - SXGA+ IPS; still beautiful, and seem not to age that quickly.
5. X61 and SXGA+ / XGA screens - they had and have the tendency to catch white spots, and there was no difference in all panels I've owned (5-6).
6. T60 - ah, my favourite topic :) Phillips screens produced the best quality / contrast, but I have had some pixel errors with them. They tend to turn pink quickly so give an idea that the bulb is weak, and I've had couple of those screens terribly yellow on the edges. BOE-Hydis screens have a bit worce color reproduction and contrast, and they tend to drop couple of dead pixels over time, but my feeling is that they age slower. ID-tech has the worst color reproduction / contrast of all 3, but honestly I found those panels very resilent against aging issues. Got 3 of them (T42p, T60p and a spare), and they still look really nice with quite some backlight loss, but with no pixel errors, white spots or yellowing.
7. X220 with IPS. Bought it second-hand, 3 weeks, white spots everywhere, sold it.
8. X230 with IPS. Bought it, second-hand, 3 minutes, LOTS of white spots everywhere, gave it back.
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:49 am
Best screen I ever saw still has to be the W700 LCD. The slightly warm tone of the LCD is so great and the CCFL bulbs are bright though it is TN.
No kidding, really :D
I can't look at it when compared to 8740w WSXGA+ TN panel. Not to mention any Dreamcolor or PremierColor panels. W701 has a way better panel, yet not perfect.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#10 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:10 pm

wujstefan wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:13 am
Ouch, this is quite a hit :/

1. A31p with UXGA IPS screen. Great screen in its time, I do own it / don't use it much. Got a bit dimmer, but still all right. No white spots, no dead pixels.
2. A42p and its UXGA IPS panel - got a typical aging issues, but nothing dramatic.
3. R50p - see above. This one got yellow quickly, but still no pixel issues or whitey spots.
4. T43 - SXGA+ IPS; still beautiful, and seem not to age that quickly.
5. X61 and SXGA+ / XGA screens - they had and have the tendency to catch white spots, and there was no difference in all panels I've owned (5-6).
6. T60 - ah, my favourite topic :) Phillips screens produced the best quality / contrast, but I have had some pixel errors with them. They tend to turn pink quickly so give an idea that the bulb is weak, and I've had couple of those screens terribly yellow on the edges. BOE-Hydis screens have a bit worce color reproduction and contrast, and they tend to drop couple of dead pixels over time, but my feeling is that they age slower. ID-tech has the worst color reproduction / contrast of all 3, but honestly I found those panels very resilent against aging issues. Got 3 of them (T42p, T60p and a spare), and they still look really nice with quite some backlight loss, but with no pixel errors, white spots or yellowing.
7. X220 with IPS. Bought it second-hand, 3 weeks, white spots everywhere, sold it.
8. X230 with IPS. Bought it, second-hand, 3 minutes, LOTS of white spots everywhere, gave it back.
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:49 am
Best screen I ever saw still has to be the W700 LCD. The slightly warm tone of the LCD is so great and the CCFL bulbs are bright though it is TN.
No kidding, really :D
I can't look at it when compared to 8740w WSXGA+ TN panel. Not to mention any Dreamcolor or PremierColor panels. W701 has a way better panel, yet not perfect.
You seem to have bad luck with the X2xx series IPS. I have 2 and their a bit ghosty but otherwise great displays. Still gets blown away by the T42p though.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#11 Post by wujstefan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:36 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:10 pm
You seem to have bad luck with the X2xx series IPS. I have 2 and their a bit ghosty but otherwise great displays. Still gets blown away by the T42p though.
Yeah, possibly. I have read lots and lots about their good quality, and was drastically robbed of enthusiasm when started using this one.
I think T42p was equipped with ID-Tech displays only (when talking about IPS), and from my experience they are a bit worse than both Phillips and B+H displays, but still a fantastic panel (still in use in my stable!), and ages way slower than the other two.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:04 am

I wonder what junkyard you buy your screens from...
I have bought several LP125WH2-SLT1 for use in X220 and X230, all came (used) from the Lenovo S230 Twist non-touch, and were (and still are) perfect.
I have also bought two FHD screens, one LP125WF2-SPB4 (for my X230, on which I am writing this post) and one LP125WF2-SPB3 (for my X240s), both from winOwin on eBay.
Again, both are perfect.
The -SLB3 needed its 6 mounting eyelets cut off to fit in the X240s.
I have also bought about 50 HV150UX2-100 IPS LED-screens, all of which were (and still are) perfect, all used in FrankenPads that are literally spread all over the world!
Not to mention the umpteen T43/p that went through my hands, most with Flexview, that have never given me any problems.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

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Re: My experience with IPS panels, from T60 through x220/230 until the T460

#13 Post by wujstefan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:55 am

Well it all depends on how picky you are :)

I've got just one (1) HV150UX2-100, bought it new, and it has two dead pixels. One will not see/ignore it, the other will tell the screen is unusable.

And I'm somewhere in the middle :) I know they are there, but would turn on my frankie to display some nice 1600x1200 landscape picture just to make joy to my eyes. And I personally will not even try to compare this one with any dreamcolor/modern IPS. And believe me, I did it screen-to-screen incl. DC1, 2 and 3, premiercolor and couple of others, smaller displays.

The X220 and X230 I have had were stock-equipped, and the screen flaws were very noticeable. Nothing that would stop you using those, but definietely far from perfect. Still, these were just two units, and this is not enough to call it a test. However, I earn my bread as a hardware design engineer staring at dreamcolor3 displays whole day, and I'm definietely keeping my word that 4:3 15" IPS displays were mucho nicer to my eyes.

EDIT:
I have skimmed the market and it is EXTREMELY difficult to get X220/230 with no defects on the screen :|
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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