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Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

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Puppy
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Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#1 Post by Puppy » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:45 pm

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/29/news/co ... index.html

Microsoft has intentionally killed the Windows 10 Mobile OS first, now it is the PC one on its way ... :?
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#2 Post by theterminator93 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:36 pm

I thought they already killed Windows...
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#3 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm

If they really cared about Windows, 8, 8.1, and 10 wouldn't exist.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#4 Post by shawross » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:23 pm

Microsoft is positioning itself to counter Google who MS see as its biggest threat.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#5 Post by Saucey » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:56 pm

Hopefully M$ feels the burn as they played dirty against IBM with Intel.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#6 Post by gfuller » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:28 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
If they really cared about Windows, 8, 8.1, and 10 wouldn't exist.
I don't see what is so bad about Windows 10. It's an improvement over Windows 8, but surely could be better. (Of course, the advertisements drive me insane - that is one thing that I really hate about Windows 10.) Windows 8 was garbage - that is when I switched to Mac OS, then I switched back and use Windows 10 on a daily basis (except now - as the T420 is still out of commission.)

I've heard that Microsoft is wanting to make Windows "free." As in, there's a "free" or "Lite" version (like RT) that is much more limited that relies solely on the app store, and then there is standard Windows which is like what we know and love. They've done this on the mobile platform, but may be moving it to desktop platforms.

As for Windows Mobile, I can't speak for the tablet. But I used Windows 8 Mobile on an old Nokia I had - and it was horrible. The phone itself (by Microsoft themselves) was decent, only complaint is they should've added a flash for the camera and some more storage and memory. But the OS was horrible as nothing was compatible with it. I wanted my online banking app for my bank? Sorry, it's not available for Windows Phone. Want the app I need for my job? Sorry, once again not available for Windows Phone. It was frustrating.

I'm sorry to get political - but Microsoft needs to focus on "Making Windows Great Again." They should have Windows as their primary worry, as it is one of their biggest products.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#7 Post by Ibthink » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:08 am

Microsoft, as almost all companies, follows the money. Their new "Cloud & AI first" strategy has resonated with the stock market, so they are focusing on that stuff.

That doesn't mean that they will stop developing Windows, they won't just drop it like Windows Mobile. Its more like "managing decline".
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#8 Post by TPFanatic » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am

gfuller wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:28 am
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
If they really cared about Windows, 8, 8.1, and 10 wouldn't exist.
I don't see what is so bad about Windows 10. It's an improvement over Windows 8, but surely could be better. (Of course, the advertisements drive me insane - that is one thing that I really hate about Windows 10.) Windows 8 was garbage
The point is not that 10 is better than 8, which it may or may not be (IMO they're both as bad), but that neither is a compelling step over 7.

10 makes things difficult for the professional user. Take, for example, trying to enter safe mode in Windows 10. You have to hard shutdown the computer during its booting stage twice then go through its automatic troubleshooting to finally get to a Safe Mode menu. This can take upwards of 5 minutes.

In Windows 7 (and Vista, XP, 2000, 98, 95...) you just reboot and press f8.

Consider the Windows Store that begins downloading Minecraft and Candy Crush as soon as you are connected to Wireless on a fresh install. Just like the Googel Play Store on Android automatically updating apps by default... professional users don't want this scheiße!

Next, the Start Menu / Cortana merge... if you want the close the Start Menu you press the Windows key, right? WRONG. It opens Cortana, so you have to press the Win key twice to close it!

The Windows Search *shudders* which throws Bing results at you instead of searching within the filesystem like it is supposed to, as it does in 7 and Vista. And regardless of whether you set your default browser "app" to anything else, it will always open Microsoft Edge for those Bing results.

What else...

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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#9 Post by MikalE » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:40 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
If they really cared about Windows, 8, 8.1, and 10 wouldn't exist.
They only care about the bottom line. Hence the reason for Windows 10. Without all of the telemetry, ads, and other invasions of privacy, they wouldn't be making as much money as they would by upgrading Windows 7.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#10 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:08 am

It's been said many times before: drop Windows and switch over to Linux.

As for a fresh installation of Windows:
ever heard of switching off the wifi and/or disconnecting the ethernet cable?
You can then set up your machine the way YOU like it, before you let all those (internet) strangers in!

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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#11 Post by dr_st » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:09 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
The point is not that 10 is better than 8, which it may or may not be (IMO they're both as bad), but that neither is a compelling step over 7.
The thing about Windows is that it's not a monolithic thing. There is the kernel, core OS, and then there is everything around it - let's call it UI/UX for User Interface / User Experience. That it also far from monolithic, but for the purpose of this discussion let's assume that it is.

The core, kernel of Windows NT has been getting better with every new version: 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10 (and all the milestone releases of 10). There are no exceptions to this. Every version is strictly better than the one before that - more features, better performance, improved security and stability.

The UI/UX, however, has been a hit-n-miss. Vista made some changes for the better and some for the worse. Win7 made small adjustments to the things that hurt the most (and the other things users got used to). Then Win8 came with the double UI (modern/desktop) which was all over the place, and full of inconsistencies. 8.1 was a hasty patch to address the worst of it, and 10 fixed up more things and improved others, but it is still inconsistent and confusing in various places, plus has extra limitations and annoyances due to the dumbed-down approach. So it is clear why Windows 7 (and to a lesser extent, Vista) are seen as the pinnacle of Windows desktop experience by most experienced users (some 'dinosaurs' even prefer 2K/XP).
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
10 makes things difficult for the professional user. Take, for example, trying to enter safe mode in Windows 10. You have to hard shutdown the computer during its booting stage twice then go through its automatic troubleshooting to finally get to a Safe Mode menu. This can take upwards of 5 minutes.
Indeed, but that is actually a bad design decision introduced in Win8, which Win10 left unchanged. The solution I always have is to force a boot menu to appear even if have a single OS, even with a 1-second timeout. This ensures Windows will always give you the option to press F8.
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
Consider the Windows Store that begins downloading Minecraft and Candy Crush as soon as you are connected to Wireless on a fresh install. Just like the Googel Play Store on Android automatically updating apps by default... professional users don't want this scheiße!
I think the 'Pro' version of Win10 does not do this, or at least lets you disable it.
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
Next, the Start Menu / Cortana merge... if you want the close the Start Menu you press the Windows key, right? WRONG. It opens Cortana, so you have to press the Win key twice to close it!
Cortana can be disabled permanently via the registry.
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
The Windows Search *shudders* which throws Bing results at you instead of searching within the filesystem like it is supposed to, as it does in 7 and Vista.
Again, can be disabled via the registry.
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
And regardless of whether you set your default browser "app" to anything else, it will always open Microsoft Edge for those Bing results.
That's consistent with past versions in some way. Certain things (including Windows Update) also always defaulted to IE, regardless of your default browser.
TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
Restart always installs Updates ✓
No Windows Update settings ✓
Win10 Pro gives you more control over this. You can prevent automatic update download/install via the group policy. There is also an external tool that Microsoft provides to 'Hide updates' (which was a built in feature of Windows Update in older versions).

Everything you say is true and it's consistent with Microsoft's decision to dumb-down Windows 10 so that it's simpler for the 'average Joe' and easier for them to manage. Yes, it makes things harder for professionals, but most of the important things have workarounds (even if Microsoft does seem to go out of their way to hide them). And, as I said, these are all aspects of the UI, not the kernel. Not that it really matters, but it does explain why some people claim that Windows is getting better with every version and some believe it's getting worse - they just focus on different things.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#12 Post by gfuller » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:37 am

dr_st wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:09 am
Everything you say is true and it's consistent with Microsoft's decision to dumb-down Windows 10 so that it's simpler for the 'average Joe' and easier for them to manage. Yes, it makes things harder for professionals, but most of the important things have workarounds (even if Microsoft does seem to go out of their way to hide them).
In other words, trying to catch up to Mac OS?

I don't disagree. Windows 10 is much more difficult to access things like Safe Mode. But it also has a UI that is a step above Windows 8, although it is still rough around the edges. Windows 7 was great (to many - including myself) because it had the "classic" Windows feel and UI, and not too terribly much (except for design, the Start Menu, and a couple other things) changed between Windows 95 and Windows 7. I feel that Windows 8 (and Windows 10) was Microsoft's attempt to breathe new life into Windows - give it an overhaul and make it more appealing, especially to those who may be considering switching from Mac OS.

Similarly (although this isn't the point of this topic), Mac OS has been going downhill at a pretty fast pace, too. That's one reason I switched back.

On this note, I think it should be pertinent to mention that many people - especially younger people - who are using mobile devices more and more every day (like Android and iOS.) I have a feeling that that [the popularity of mobile devices] plays a huge role into where computer [desktop] operating systems are heading. I feel that it's pretty evident with Windows and even Mac OS, with Cortana and Siri, and everything being "tile based" and the App Store playing an increasing role in acquiring software. I may be totally off base here, but that's how I see it.

And, unfortunately, I think we're going to continue on this path. More and more people are using their phones and tablets (running Android/iOS) to do everything. I attend University, so I know quite a few people who write papers, do homework, watch movies, play games - all on their phone or tablet. (Shocking to me as I can barely type a text on my phone.) If you walked into some of my classes and asked some of the people the last time they touched a computer, the answer would be surprising. And, as mentioned, Microsoft and Apple are going to follow the money. The money is there - integrating your mobile devices and PC, the cloud, and making computer operating systems more like the mobile operating systems they're used to.

If you want something that you can truly experiment with and tailor to your needs, then there are plenty of Linux distributions. But for the common user, Windows is going to continue (at least from what I can see) to be the de-facto standard for quite some time going forward.

Just my $0.02. I want my computer to be a computer and less like my phone.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#13 Post by Omineca » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:18 am

I switched to Linux a long time ago at home.

But I still use Windows for work. I have to, since IT loads their own disk images and restricts access to key functionality like printing and network drive access to systems using their software.

I'm not sure what MS is doing with Windows. It's hard to believe that such a large corporation could introduce unfinished changes (That Settings AND Control Panel mess is a prime example) and repeatedly take away customization options from users (and even pull many out of the registry to prevent power users from making changes ... ridiculous). I won't even start on the telemetry. As should be evident, I don't care for most of the changes that have been introduced since Windows 7. Fortunately, I don't have to see many of them because my workplace loads our laptops with Windows Enterprise. With that, Classic Shell (sadly now abandoned by the developer), and a few hacks, I hardly know that I'm using Windows 10.

It's kind of sad to see things drift this way. Windows *was* a solid operating system, but I anticipate a future where it will slowly decline into irrelevance.
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#14 Post by Ibthink » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:03 pm

TPFanatic wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:35 am
Take, for example, trying to enter safe mode in Windows 10. You have to hard shutdown the computer during its booting stage twice then go through its automatic troubleshooting to finally get to a Safe Mode menu. This can take upwards of 5 minutes.
Needlessly complicated. You can access safe-mode very easily by holding the shift-key down while you click on the restart-button. When the machine is booting up, it enters the advanced boot setup, where you click on "Troubleshoot", then "Advanced Options" and then "Startup Settings". There you can restart with the startup-settings, which include the safe-mode.

There are also other ways to enter safe-mode, see: https://www.digitalcitizen.life/4-ways- ... windows-10
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#15 Post by NonesensE » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:11 am

In most cases where I needed safe mode, some broken driver or update prohibited startup. In those, hold shift while restarting doesn't help...
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Re: Microsoft is putting Windows on the back burner

#16 Post by Ibthink » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:12 am

On many PCs, the Advanced Boot menu can also be accessed by pressing F11 on boot. Otherwise, it can be accessed by using a recovery/install disk or it automatically boots into this menu, if Windows doesn't boot correctly.
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