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New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

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New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#1 Post by Puppy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:14 am

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/0 ... r_customs/

Customs laws in New Zealand now allow border agents to demand travellers unlock their phones or face an NZ$5,000 (around US$3,300) fine.

This is going against all security principles. Basically if it happens, you have to:
  • Change your (Microsoft, Google, Apple etc) passwords because it affects all connected devices
  • Reset the device to the factory default state because it could be infected by a malware, thus means to completely refresh the factory content from a second safe device via USB cable
  • Setup the device again
All of this takes at least 24 hours, even more in place without a decent Internet connection. Still wondering how a visitor is supposed to do that, otherwise his/her device is left potentionally unsafe and vulnerable.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#2 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:28 am

I'm sure there is no risk of the border guards keeping your information for identity theft.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#3 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am

Didn't plan on going to New Zealand anytime soon, now Ive got a really good reason not to go to New Zealand. TPFanatic is right though, I doubt the patrol guards are going to take your info for identify theft. They will probably open up your phone, make sure you aren't there to blow up New Zealand, and you're fine.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#4 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:25 am

I'm sure they would love to snoop in my Doro PhoneEasy 626.
It has 3 telephone numbers stored and nothing else.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#5 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:32 am

They'll stick your phone up to your face in an attempt to use face ID :lol:
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#6 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:11 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:45 am
Didn't plan on going to New Zealand anytime soon, now Ive got a really good reason not to go to New Zealand. TPFanatic is right though, I doubt the patrol guards are going to take your info for identify theft. They will probably open up your phone, make sure you aren't there to blow up New Zealand, and you're fine.
I was being sarcastic though. :lol: But ideally it should be harmless, but it's ideal expectations that get disappointed.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#7 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:39 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:11 am
I was being sarcastic though. :lol: But ideally it should be harmless, but it's ideal expectations that get disappointed.
I didn't know if you were sarcastic or not. I had a 50/50 shot.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#8 Post by Cigarguy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:51 am

Almost every country is going this route. It's the time that we live in where, in a way, the terrorists won. Governments are finding out that they can do almost anything and pass any stupid policy they want so long as they invoke the name of national security.

That's why I got an older smart phone that I dedicate to traveling. It's unlocked and if I lost it or abuse it while traveling I don't care. There's also nothing on it as I reset it frequently.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:16 pm

Cigarguy wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:51 am
Almost every country is going this route. It's the time that we live in where, in a way, the terrorists won. Governments are finding out that they can do almost anything and pass any stupid policy they want so long as they invoke the name of national security.

That's why I got an older smart phone that I dedicate to traveling. It's unlocked and if I lost it or abuse it while traveling I don't care. There's also nothing on it as I reset it frequently.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#10 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:32 pm

Cigarguy wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:51 am
Almost every country is going this route. It's the time that we live in where, in a way, the terrorists won. Governments are finding out that they can do almost anything and pass any stupid policy they want so long as they invoke the name of national security.

That's why I got an older smart phone that I dedicate to traveling. It's unlocked and if I lost it or abuse it while traveling I don't care. There's also nothing on it as I reset it frequently.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#11 Post by exTPfan » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Calm down folks. Last year they only examined 575 phones out of several million visitors. This is no worse from anywhere else.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#12 Post by Cigarguy » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:06 pm

I'm very calm but I know that this can and will happen in any country not just NZ. We as a society have accepted this. There's less examination only because they don't have the time to examine everyone. The fact that most border guards (failed cops) have the power of God over a person for a limited time is a bit disturbing but that's the price for wanting to go to another country. Do all of this make me safer? Debatable. I'm a frequent and seasoned traveler and take most of this with a grain of salt.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#13 Post by dr_st » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 am

AFAIK, similar regulations have existed in many countries, US included, for quite a while, and to date I know of no one personally who had the border control agent demand to look into their laptop/phone.

I also don't quite understand why you necessarily have to change all your passwords. Nothing in the article had any supporting evidence that you are required to hand over your passwords.

If it is just the officer asking for you to unlock the device so they can look at the contents (in your presence), that's one thing. If they demand that you hand them over the passwords, and let them take the device into a back room and do whatever they want with it, that's another thing. It all depends on how they actually want to enforce these regulations.

The bottom line is - a border control officer has a lot of power to deny you entry for whatever reason, and your refusal to hand over your device for inspection is just another such reason. If they apply it too broadly or too stupidly, they will be shooting themselves in the foot, because if you harass visitors, they stop coming, and that's bad for them.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#14 Post by Puppy » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:42 am

dr_st wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 am
If it is just the officer asking for you to unlock the device so they can look at the contents (in your presence), that's one thing. If they demand that you hand them over the passwords, and let them take the device into a back room and do whatever they want with it, that's another thing. It all depends on how they actually want to enforce these regulations.
I think the later is how it is actually done. But I am not sure they'll be able to operate a Windows 10 Mobile phone with Czech language anyway :-)
dr_st wrote:
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I also don't quite understand why you necessarily have to change all your passwords. Nothing in the article had any supporting evidence that you are required to hand over your passwords.
By giving access to the device (PIN etc) that is connected to the cloud account it means the account is compromised regardless of whether you provided the password (the PIN is its "shortcut" only) or not.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#15 Post by dr_st » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:57 am

Well, one of these days I will refuse to hand out my password/device and be denied entry somewhere. Stuff happens. :)
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#16 Post by WarhawkCZ » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:18 am

That't why I use truecrypt with a fake container. This enables me blowing up New Zealand even after handing over my password.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#17 Post by shawross » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:41 pm

It won't stop me going back to New Zealand especially the south island.

In reality unfortunately this is what we have to put up with now when we travel. But saying that it would only occur in serious rare cases like terrorism or drug trafficking.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#18 Post by TonyJZX » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:52 pm

Does this affect Australia citizens since there's reciprocity EU style freedom of travel etc.?

This is the way of the world... if you're in a developed country and people want to come to your country for whatever reason then you can make up your own draconian rules and either accept these rules or hit the bricks.

Your choice. I'm not saying I agree with this (of course) however what are ya gonna do?

Until these sorts of things hits their hip pocket in lower tourism levels then they'll keep doing it.

Watch what happens with the UK once brexit passes.

Vote with your dollars. Dont visit countries that dont align with your views.

There's a laundry list of '[censored]' countries that dont deserve your prescence in them... many are actual first world western nations.

Further to this, these measures are all security theater. With online storage why is this even an issue?

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#19 Post by coolcat37 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:33 pm

exTPfan wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:55 pm
Calm down folks. Last year they only examined 575 phones out of several million visitors. This is no worse from anywhere else.
That's cute. Now what's the next step, automatically hacking your smartphone once you line up for customs? Cloning what's relevant on there, to be stored forever? That procedure would be just one step removed.

Actually this news is so not interesting. What's the latest on Justin Bieber? What Hollywood doo-doo is there to watch on telly tonight? When are we going to Disneyland? What clothes are hip to wear this season? This privacy issue is so boring, let's have some entertainment please! Who cares about rights? Let's line up at Starbucks and show our MacBooks.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#20 Post by exTPfan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:45 pm

TonyJZX wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:52 pm
Does this affect Australia citizens since there's reciprocity EU style freedom of travel etc.?
Where have you guys been? The U.S. has been forcibly examining incoming people's gadgets for years. And this affects everyone, including returning citizens. I'd be interested to see how dr_st is planning to handle it when it is his own country that insists on examining his gadgets. This is not news because NZ is doing nothing that everyone else isn't doing.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#21 Post by Cigarguy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:12 pm

I agree that this is not unique to NZ. It's a trend that ALL government are doing. What's most disturbing for me is how easily the sheep, me included, have accepted less and less and less freedom and privacy every year. What happen to freedom of speech and being able to say things, no matter how offensive or threatening, without government interference? What I choose to say on my phone in private is none of any government's concern. If I post something stupid on a public forum then yeah I deserve all the crap I get. Are we really that far from Orwell's 1984? When will "Alexa", that we not only invite but paid for, be found out as just a convenience tool for the government? Have we become nothing more than consuming and to be consumed sheep? Used to be a time when you can call a man a man, a woman a woman but now Canadian legislation wants to make everyone an it.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#22 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:15 pm

Listen to Genesis(or Disturbed) Land of Confusion.

The sad part is the modern US administration fits the song better than Reagab did in 1986.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#23 Post by shawross » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:19 pm

Western Governments have stoked terrorism fears and security paranoia which has allowed them to bring in these draconian laws.

Media control has allowed this the happen seamlessly.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#24 Post by Cigarguy » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:27 pm

And there's the danger, "seamlessly". Slowly, seamlessly, stroked by fear and political grandstanding for votes to an ignorant population. It's the one thing governments are very good and efficient at. God knows they are useless otherwise.

I sure missed the day when Canadians and Americans can visit each other with just a driver's license. Back then I used to consider Americans friends. Today it's best to consider everyone I see as an enemy or worse before they can harm me. That will keep me safe right? It will sure keep the military, security and government institutions busy. It's great for the economy. Imagine all the money that private security companies can make and how many additional government employees when in a few years time every phone gets checked at the border.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#25 Post by shawross » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Fear and counter ideologies at war creates income for Oligarchs who back both sides and nurture kaos and security paranoia.

Governments and Media are controlled by these interests .

Slowly and seamlessly like boiling a frog in a fry-pan. Freedom, choice and privacy are only illusions.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#26 Post by coolcat37 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:44 am

Cigarguy wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:12 pm
Have we become nothing more than consuming and to be consumed sheep?
Yes, and you're talking to a hollow chamber here.

A whole planet of sheeps. Soon to be replaced by machinery that is way better controllable than we are. At least we will have the tunes of Skrillex and Kim Kardashian while we will be processed at a modern-day Treblinka.

Ignortant people who cannot resist the urge to check their smartphone while eating fast food and consuming a mindless political puppet show..

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#27 Post by MikalE » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:52 am

Cigarguy wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:06 pm
I'm very calm but I know that this can and will happen in any country not just NZ. We as a society have accepted this. There's less examination only because they don't have the time to examine everyone. The fact that most border guards (failed cops) have the power of God over a person for a limited time is a bit disturbing but that's the price for wanting to go to another country. Do all of this make me safer? Debatable. I'm a frequent and seasoned traveler and take most of this with a grain of salt.
The German GSG-9 might not agree with your assessment of 'border guards'.

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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#28 Post by exTPfan » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:31 am

MikalE wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:52 am
Fourth Amendment
Fourth Amendment does not apply on entering the U.S. (nor does any other protection) because you are not officially in the country. And of course N.Z. has protections against unreasonable searches.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#29 Post by Summilux » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:48 am

Cigarguy wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:12 pm
I agree that this is not unique to NZ. It's a trend that ALL government are doing. What's most disturbing for me is how easily the sheep, me included, have accepted less and less and less freedom and privacy every year.
Shhh. It's for your own safety, citizen. Now keep your mouth shut and your head down, and go back to work for the system.
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Re: New Zealand border cops warn travelers that without handing over electronic passwords 'You shall not pass!'

#30 Post by TonyJZX » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:37 am

The reality is that you cant do nothing.

I'm assuming you're an average person with a job and commitments. You going to demonstrate in the streets?

Further it feels like most political parties in the respective countries are ok with this.

People like to throw out quick slurs or sorts like 'sheep' but really, no one but a silent minority is against this sort of thing.

There's no revolution or reaction to this.

You say vote at the ballot box, this is nonsense since you're voting for the same thing.

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