Is image-loading warning still enforced in the forum in 2019?

[Jefferson]

Back when Thinkpad 770 was the blingest piece of toy, I can see why the image loading warning was useful and necessary. But in 2019, doesn't everyone have an internet access with enough speed and usage allowance that few 10s megabytes of data won't dent their internet meter at all?

Just wondering if it's still strictly enforced in the forum I know when in Rome...

[dr_st]

It's like, sort of enforced, when someone feels like enforcing it.

Apparently, not everyone has high-speed internet, go figure. Some people also just don't like (many) inline images.

Most likely 1-2 small pics will go unnoticed / unenforced. If you feel like posting more / larger images - please put a warning in the title.

Anything obnoxiously large (the kind that may stretch the screen for the average viewer) will definitely get taken down, and I would take it down even if the forum never had any rules regarding images in the first place - simply because it's annoying and borderline disrespectful.

[Thinkpad4by3]

It's like, sort of enforced, when someone feels like enforcing it.

Apparently, not everyone has high-speed internet, go figure. Some people also just don't like (many) inline images.

Most likely 1-2 small pics will go unnoticed / unenforced. If you feel like posting more / larger images - please put a warning in the title.

Anything obnoxiously large (the kind that may stretch the screen for the average viewer) will definitely get taken down, and I would take it down even if the forum never had any rules regarding images in the first place - simply because it's annoying and borderline disrespectful.

I tend to read this on my phone and a long post with a nice fat image at the bottom, most of the time I'll stop reading regardless if I'm interested or not because it's just a pain to scroll.

[madicetea]

Back when Thinkpad 770 was the blingest piece of toy, I can see why the image loading warning was useful and necessary. But in 2019, doesn't everyone have an internet access with enough speed and usage allowance that few 10s megabytes of data won't dent their internet meter at all?

Just wondering if it's still strictly enforced in the forum I know when in Rome...

Yes, I have been a rather vocal supporter of this rule.

My apartment's connection is technically unlimited fibre-optic, but it is shared amongst the whole building and this means my connection can be insufferably slow some days (to the extent that I will take a hike to my University campus instead to do anything on the internet).

My phone (where I often view this forum from), is also a small 5 (used to be 3 until quite recently, but I'm finally starting to move up in life) gb per month data plan. Exceeding this means the worst data overage slowdown speed anyone has ever seen, often leading to a website loading timeout.

Please use imgur. It's a great workaround and it means that I won't have to use all my data just looking through this forum.

[Screamer]

But in 2019, doesn't everyone have an internet access with enough speed and usage allowance that few 10s megabytes of data won't dent their internet meter at all?

Just wondering if it's still strictly enforced in the forum

Not necessarily, because some internet service providers set data limits for 'cost' related reasons. Plus, even a few megabytes of data would still be quite massive for those that are on a single-digit gigabyte plan.

I believe that it is still enforced, since this topic's original poster had thrown up quite a rant when he was forced to link the images that he had posted.

In my opinion, I think it would be better to link the images instead. It would remove the need for us to scroll (especially on some phones), or complain about the images being too big. Or, as demonstrated in that particular topic, start an argument that would be 3-5 posts long.

[zod]

I'm so tempted now...

[MikalE]

We do have a photo posting forum...

I would still maintain a respectable size even in there though. No one needs to see a photo at 3000x4000 pixels.

[ajkula66]

Welcome to the forum!

I don’t understand how difficult it is to insert into any editor that doesn’t cut quality, to make a photo convenient for quality. Or embed this feature in the forum. There are a large number of different quality services for this, I am sure that it is not difficult to integrate into the forum.

You're new here but this subject matter has been discussed ad nauseam for years now. This forum still attracts ThinkPad enthusiasts from all over the globe, and as long as we have members stuck with no real broadband in no man's land - something that is far more common in the U.S. than most people would believe - the current rules are likely to stay in place.

[storm-chaser]

Ever heard the expression a picture is worth a thousand words?

The rule is paradoxical. This is the only computer forum I am aware of that has a rule like this in place. Pictures and image posting are natural, especially when talking about new builds, screen grabs, etc. Computers are a multi media platform. The idea that you cannot capitalize on this in 2019 is baffling and a little ironic. If anything, image posting should be encouraged by forum staff to round out the multi media experience. One reason I don't contribute to the forum very often is due to this rule being enforced. If I cant really show my work off here, then what's the point of even having a forum in the first place?

I've heard of the whole cell phone issue, but I say too bad. If you don't have an LTE connection in 2019 you shouldn't be browsing the web in the first place. And its a fallacy to believe only the US has "broadband" capabilities. Many countries in fact out pace the United States in overall internet bandwidth speeds. Same goes without saying for cell phones, the United States is again out of first place by a notable margin.
This image shows the relative 4G coverage around the globe, and the scale is 1-100% for reference.

Edited picture to conform to the 50Kb cap. Its now wasted because nobody can make out the data because its super tiny. Again this is 4G coverage around the globe:



One way to get a pulse on what members think is to conduct a poll. I think you'd be surprised how many people are disgusted with and despise this rule.

[ajkula66]

Edited picture to conform to the 50Kb cap. Its now wasted because nobody can make out the data because its super tiny. Again this is 4G coverage around the globe:

Which is why one posts a link...and not an actual picture...with so many hosting sites available it doesn't take an awful lot of time to do AND you can use those uploaded images on several different sites. Been there, done that.

One way to get a pulse on what members think is to conduct a poll. I think you'd be surprised how many people are disgusted with and despise this rule.

Those who are disgusted with the rule and despise it are free not to participate in this forum. Since I hate repeating myself ad nauseam...

This forum still attracts ThinkPad enthusiasts from all over the globe, and as long as we have members stuck with no real broadband in no man's land - something that is far more common in the U.S. than most people would believe - the current rules are likely to stay in place.

[storm-chaser]

Don't mind me, I'm just venting about this picture thing. Trying to wrap my head around this.
Lets see: A multi-media device (computer) forum wherein multi media is essentially outlawed. So bizarre.

The forum should be a medium for information transfer and knowledge gain. I'd encourage you to come up to date from the dark ages and I for one think if the cap was removed nobody would complain, except for the usual 2-3 cell phone people who always post in these threads about how difficult it is browsing this forum with their 1G data plan from 1996. Because that is the reason right? I mean, the main reason we can't post large pictures is because some people are still dialing up to the internet to browse this particular forum? Other than the usual suspects, in all honesty, how many people still browse this forum on a less than adequate connection? I bet the number is close to ZERO.

[JPOESQ]

Don't mind me, I'm just venting about this picture thing. Trying to wrap my head around this.
Lets see: A multi-media device (computer) forum wherein multi media is essentially outlawed. So bizarre.

The forum should be a medium for information transfer and knowledge gain. I'd encourage you to come up to date from the dark ages and I for one think if the cap was removed nobody would complain, except for the usual 2-3 cell phone people who always post in these threads about how difficult it is browsing this forum with their 1G data plan from 1996. Because that is the reason right? I mean, the main reason we can't post large pictures is because some people are still dialing up to the internet to browse this particular forum? Other than the usual suspects, in all honesty, how many people still browse this forum on a less than adequate connection? I bet the number is close to ZERO.

Because it eats up hosting resources maybe? Or slows the forum software? That’s why I request that members post links and host resources outside of the forum that I own and operate.

[ajkula66]

Other than the usual suspects, in all honesty, how many people still browse this forum on a less than adequate connection? I bet the number is close to ZERO.

And I bet that you would be very surprised with the answer...there are large chunks of this country where Internet is at A.D. 2003 speeds...at best.

Not everyone has FiOS or U-verse available in their neighbourhood. Or even a decent cellular connection. I know it's hard to believe at this day and age but that's the way things are. We can debate why U.S. lags behind the rest of the civilized world in this respect, but that won't change the current state of affairs.

[axur-delmeria]

Good thing my image hosting service (flickr) automatically generates preview pics of different sizes. I put the 240x180 preview in an img tag, which in turn is put inside a url tag, so clicking the preview pic leads to the full-size image.

[dr_st]

The rule is paradoxical. This is the only computer forum I am aware of that has a rule like this in place. Pictures and image posting are natural, especially when talking about new builds, screen grabs, etc. Computers are a multi media platform. The idea that you cannot capitalize on this in 2019 is baffling and a little ironic. If anything, image posting should be encouraged by forum staff to round out the multi media experience. One reason I don't contribute to the forum very often is due to this rule being enforced. If I cant really show my work off here, then what's the point of even having a forum in the first place?

I must admit that I do not understand your rant.

Maybe you are not aware of the fact that there is a forum called Pictures of your ThinkPad & desk setup, and that this is exactly the place to show off your new build, screen grabs, whatever. It specifically says, in the forum description: "LARGE picture files allowed here". I've personally posted more than a dozen threads of my Thinkpads (and not only), full of pictures, in that forum, and haven't received a single complaint.

The only exception I see is what I already mentioned earlier is this thread:

Anything obnoxiously large (the kind that may stretch the screen for the average viewer) will definitely get taken down, and I would take it down even if the forum never had any rules regarding images in the first place - simply because it's annoying and borderline disrespectful

If you want to have a thread that's mostly pics - please put it in the pics forum, no issue.

If you just want to have some pics that are related to the topic of discussion / help demonstrate something, but the thread is not otherwise centered on them, feel free to post them in any forum, as long as they are reasonably small / there are not too many of them. Given the fact that most image hosting services offer automatic thumbnail generation or automatically provide embedded images of different sizes, there is little reason not to take a little extra step and format the images/links in a way that will be easy on the viewers.

If one just wants to be lazy, and simply embed 30 images taken by their 10-megapixel (>4K resolution) camera without any editing, well, then, I, for one, don't want this kind of crap in the forum, and if we need a silly archaic rule to "hide behind" to avoid this kind of crap, then so be it.

P.S. Speaking only for myself; the other forum members / administrators may have different opinions.

[Dekks]

I've heard of the whole cell phone issue, but I say too bad. If you don't have an LTE connection in 2019 you shouldn't be browsing the web in the first place. And its a fallacy to believe only the US has "broadband" capabilities. Many countries in fact out pace the United States in overall internet bandwidth speeds. Same goes without saying for cell phones, the United States is again out of first place by a notable margin.

The rule is probably more useful for people in rural US who still have very poor internet as there is little money to be made, both in the US and Europe rural areas are poorly served by high speed internet or mobile.

[storm-chaser]

Please forgive me for dragging you guys through this again and I understand its been rehashed many times before, but I have yet a few points Id like to raise with the community. And this is probably a fruitless endeavor on my behalf because it could be the year 2030 and I have a sneaking suspicion that the rule will never be lifted. First, the idea of a tiny 50Kb cap on image size is hilarious. Just popping up google takes more than that.

In all sincerity I think you should put your ear to the ground and hear the people. Especially new members are very much turned off when their initial post about a recent build becomes yet another debate about posting pictures and invariably the admin take the pics down and issue yet another warning (ad nauseum). Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to muddy the waters? Listening to your members is an important step towards resolution here. As I said, this is the only forum I've encountered with this bizarre rule.

This is a quote from section 5 of the rules of the road:

Reason: many people look at the forum using cellphones, which may have Download Restrictions.

So, can this claim even be substantiated? I mean what if the number is ZERO? Would you then change the rule? Or come up with another reason to eliminate large images? Again, a poll might be in order because I probably count the luddites here on one hand. This rule has been in place since 2005. Does the forum management not realize that internet speeds have improved exponentially since then?

As moderators you guys hold the keys to the kingdom so at the end of the day you have the final say, and I have to respect that regardless of the outcome here.

[storm-chaser]

I must admit that I do not understand your rant.

My point was in explaining the irony of the situation we have here. Exactly what part are you not getting and perhaps I can break it down further for you?

[ajkula66]

In all sincerity I think you should put your ear to the ground and hear the people. Especially new members are very much turned off when their initial post about a recent build becomes yet another debate about posting pictures and invariably the admin take the pics down and issue yet another warning (ad nauseum). Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to muddy the waters? Listening to your members is an important step towards resolution here. As I said, this is the only forum I've encountered with this bizarre rule.

I participate in several forums that have the same or similar rules. None of them is ThinkPad-related, though.

So, can this claim even be substantiated? I mean what if the number is ZERO? Would you then change the rule? Or come up with another reason to eliminate large images? Again, a poll might be in order because I probably count the luddites here on one hand. This rule has been in place since 2005. Does the forum management not realize that internet speeds have improved exponentially since then?

While Internet speeds have improved in many places, there are numerous rural areas where the service outright sucks. Whether you choose to believe so or not is up to you. I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with both the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and the tariffs (in the telecom sense of the word) associated with it. My belief is that this course of action would help your understanding of the subject matter which is quite lacking IMO. BTW, I've been drawing my paycheck from this very industry for the past 20 years and am prevented from saying certain things by that fact alone. There is nothing, however, that legally prevents me from pointing you or anyone else to sources that are available for one to do their own research.

The bottom line is: this forum - along with its German-language cousin - is the single largest well of ThinkPad-related knowledge on this planet. It's free to sign up for and use. That's as good as it gets, regardless of one's opinion on the forum rules themselves.

[storm-chaser]

Okay so that being said, what's the point? You make it difficult for 99% of the forum population for the unsubstantiated one percent who may have slow internet?!

Apparently, the forum management doesn't listen to their membership base. Sad and unfortunate situation we find ourselves in. I will take my business elsewhere until the ban is lifted. The forum is a medium of expression yet pictures must be under 50kb? Yeah, something is seriously wrong with that logic.

[ajkula66]

Okay so that being said, what's the point? You make it difficult for 99% of the forum population for the unsubstantiated one percent who may have slow internet?!

You have absolutely no data to back up your 99% vs. 1% statement.

Apparently, the forum management doesn't listen to their membership base. Sad and unfortunate situation we find ourselves in. I will take my business elsewhere until the ban is lifted. The forum is a medium of expression yet pictures must be under 50kb? Yeah, something is seriously wrong with that logic.

You have no "business" to take elsewhere. It's not like this forum has been making any money from your posts.

To quote the immortal Lord Byron:

"FARE thee well! and if for ever,
Still for ever, fare thee well:"

[JPOESQ]

Here’s a recap of the rule:

“5. PICTURES. IF needed, you may add one or more photographs to your post. In that case you must also place a warning in the Subject: line!
PLEASE note that you may have multiple thumbnails (ideally linking to full-sized images) as long as their sum does NOT exceed the 50KB limit.”

Whether the 50k is antiquated with current technology or not, the request to link off-site just makes good sense:

“(ideally linking to full-sized images)”

Post a thumbnail and link off-site. Even a caveman can do it.

[storm-chaser]

You have absolutely no data to back up your 99% vs. 1% statement.

That's why you might want to take a poll and find out what your membership base is all about, because clearly you do not have a clue either and I would estimate the real number is closer to ZERO percent.

The rule hasn't been updated in 14 YEARS? You do realize it was created back when dial up was prevalent? Or is this rule simply going to exist for infinity? Because the forum administration has been totally non responsive up to this point for calls to change the rule.

Hell, why not just shut the forum down completely. There are plenty of people out there who have no internet connection. By your logic these people should hold all the power and therefore if they cant get to the forum why should anyone else?

Sorry for rehashing this over and over (its just the most infuriating thing ever)
this will likely be my last post for a while - Mods thank you for putting up with me

p.s compromise is key.. perhaps lift the 50kb ceiling in favor of something like a 250kb limit?

I mean you could throw us a bone every once in a while, it wouldn't actually hurt to do that...

[ajkula66]

That's why you might want to take a poll and find out what your membership base is all about, because clearly you do not have a clue either and I would estimate the real number is closer to ZERO percent.

That's why you may want to start your own ThinkPad forum and see how many users run to join it.

Sorry for rehashing this over and over (its just the most infuriating thing ever)

If the subject of this discussion qualifies as the most infuriating thing ever, you must have lived an extremely sheltered life.

I mean you could throw us a bone every once in a while, it wouldn't actually hurt to do that...

I thought you were leaving...

[dr_st]

My point was in explaining the irony of the situation we have here. Exactly what part are you not getting and perhaps I can break it down further for you?

Oh, I think I understand it better now, thanks. The fact that you've completely ignored everything I (and others) said about the Pictures forum (which exists for the sole purpose of people being able to post pics of anything they like without any archaic limitations) shows me that you are not trying to solve any practical problem, because there is none. You are just ranting for the sake of ranting, because apparently you are bothered by the simple fact that there exists one forum on the internet that has one rule that you do not agree with and do not find justified.

Well, good luck. Feel free to take your business elsewhere, whatever that business may be.

Just one comment:

Especially new members are very much turned off when their initial post about a recent build becomes yet another debate about posting pictures and invariably the admin take the pics down and issue yet another warning (ad nauseum)

This is a strawman argument. I am not familiar with any cases where admins issued warnings for posting pics outside of limits, especially for new members. Not to say that it hasn't happened, but if it did - I call it poor judgment of the mod/admin. It is definitely not the norm and has never been the norm.

[RealBlackStuff]

Over 10% of your posts have been complaints.
If you don't like it here, why bother?
I'd say: good riddance!

[storm-chaser]

The fact that you've completely ignored everything I (and others) said about the Pictures forum (which exists for the sole purpose of people being able to post pics of anything they like without any archaic limitations) shows me that you are not trying to solve any practical problem, because there is none.

Oh God. Let me see if we can break this down one more time. The problem is that I use pictures and / or screen grabs in most of my replies and in most threads, so yes while there is a sub forum dedicated to large pictures it doesn't help when replying to any of the other sub forums. That's the practical problem I see. My intent is not to troll, I just think an "archaic" rule originally intended for people with dial up should have justification if implemented in the year 2019. So far, you guys have basically come up with ZERO reasons why the rule should continue to be enforced. And some folks are beginning to sound more and more like luddites with every reply.

If the subject of this discussion qualifies as the most infuriating thing ever, you must have lived an extremely sheltered life.

Yes I have lived a relatively sheltered life but every person has the right to stand up for what they believe in, and in this situation I'm just trying to make a case for those who oppose this particular rule. Giving a voice to the masses, so to speak. My expectations are low but I had to make a go of it, nevertheless.

This is a strawman argument. I am not familiar with any cases where admins issued warnings for posting pics outside of limits, especially for new members. Not to say that it hasn't happened, but if it did - I call it poor judgment of the mod/admin. It is definitely not the norm and has never been the norm.

I've seen it happen more than once. It happened to me for example - when I posted my original T61p build. The thread turned from sharing my recent build with my fellow compatriots to a debate about pictures and how I should take them down ASAP. Not the direction I was hoping it would go in! Muddying the waters.

Over 10% of your posts have been complaints.
If you don't like it here, why bother?
I'd say: good riddance!

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind. I'm only human after all. I came here to share and grow and exchange information. After that was cut short due to multiple admin warnings about my pictures yes I have grown a little cynical. It just seems we might have some luddites in our midst. These people oppose technology yet run a forum dedicated to technology? If that's not paradoxical I don't know what is.

That's why you may want to start your own ThinkPad forum and see how many users run to join it.

This is still the best ThinkPad forum on the web, hands down. I could never complete with what you guys have created here. The forum is excellent in nearly all respects. Except one.

[dr_st]

The problem is that I use pictures and / or screen grabs in most of my replies

Sounds like it's just not the right platform for you. In most forums I'm posting on, pictures are used sparingly. Forums are still mostly for reading and less for slide-shows. Perhaps you should go to Discord or a more modern platform instead.

So far, you guys have basically come up with ZERO reasons why the rule should continue to be enforced.

It's not enforced. There are small pics (the key point here is - small, not obnoxious, not obtrusive) everywhere, and very rarely someone complains about them being >50K. Especially if there is a "PIC" warning in the thread title.

I've seen it happen more than once. It happened to me for example - when I posted my original T61p build. The thread turned from sharing my recent build with my fellow compatriots to a debate about pictures and how I should take them down ASAP. Not the direction I was hoping it would go in! Muddying the waters.

Did you actually get a warning for this? Because, being a mod, I can view your user record, and I see no warnings there at all. Do you mean that someone broke the tags on the 10 3000-something by 2000-something pictures that you posted, which break the page layout for every user? I don't think there is a single user who likes to see that, never mind the size or the bandwidth. Maybe you are used to forum software that automatically resizes images for you, well, this one doesn't, and it is basic netiquette to make sure that what you post is actually readable by others. Something which you didn't bother to do.

It just seems we might have some luddites in our midst.

We do. But it's not just the luddites that have a problem with huge stretchy pics, and it's time you understand that.

[storm-chaser]

Did you actually get a warning for this? Because, being a mod, I can view your user record, and I see no warnings there at all. Do you mean that someone broke the tags on the 10 3000-something by 2000-something pictures that you posted, which break the page layout for every user? I don't think there is a single user who likes to see that, never mind the size or the bandwidth. Maybe you are used to forum software that automatically resizes images for you, well, this one doesn't, and it is basic netiquette to make sure that what you post is actually readable by others. Something which you didn't bother to do.

Yeah it was apparently not a warning on my record, just a reply from a mod on my thread. Mod broke the tags and then inserted a small paragraph in red explaining why this behavior was not acceptable. I obviously had missed the protocol for posting images but it was still a turn off for me as a new member.
And I get the idea that large pictures can be obnoxious but on the flip side a tiny 50KB picture could also be considered that way, and to small or to difficult to read. If I had to chose one or the other I would definitely go for the larger image that's readable, clear and concise and could be saved for later high resolution viewing.

Forums are still mostly for reading and less for slide-shows

Forums are a medium for information exchange on multiple layers and levels. This "information" exchange can take place in various forms such reading/writing, viewing embedded videos and posting images. In my opinion putting a restriction on any one of these layers could be considered a hindrance to the information exchange as a whole. One would think forum management would want to accelerate and amplify ALL these layers in an effort to maximize the forums full potential.

It's not enforced. There are small pics (the key point here is - small, not obnoxious, not obtrusive) everywhere, and very rarely someone complains about them being >50K. Especially if there is a "PIC" warning in the thread title.

It was enforced by admin on me just yesterday after I posted a small CPUz screenshot - the image was definitely not obtrusive but was taken down regardless.

We do. But it's not just the luddites that have a problem with huge stretchy pics, and it's time you understand that.

Indeed, some general members do have a problem with huge stretchy pics, but then again there is likely a contingent of members who would prefer the larger images. For example, when you do a google image search do you go after the large or small pictures? I almost exclusively go straight for the larger.
Computer monitors have evolved greatly in the past couple years and now support insane, amazingly high resolutions. So for most, I don't think viewing the larger image is going to be a problem in terms of thread readablility.

[RealBlackStuff]

It was enforced by admin on me just yesterday after I posted a small CPUz screenshot - the image was definitely not obtrusive but was taken down regardless.

That "small" screenshot was 124.11 KB, well over the 50KB limit!
Keep ignoring, start looking for another Forum...