Corona-COVID-19 virus statistics and HOW is it affecting you.. what are you doing..?

[dr_st]

China DELIBERATELY allowed this to spread AROUND THE WORLD when they completely shut off that cuty from ALL INTERNAL TRAVEL to other parts of china AS EARLY AS LATE OCT / EARLY NOV.

I am not familiar of any specific shutdowns from Wuhan around the time you mention. Are you sure that is reliable information? The blame of the Chinese government for not reacting fast enough and trying to downplay / conceal the early reports from Wuhan is well-accepted at this point, but I do not find much supporting evidence to your timeline, nor to the fact that internal travel from Wuhan was banned, while international was allowed.

[ajkula66]

but I do not find much supporting evidence to your timeline, nor to the fact that internal travel from Wuhan was banned, while international was allowed.

That claim has been around for a while...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/bl ... gn-travel/

Whether one decides that this is a trustworthy source or not is up to them.

[dr_st]

That's not the same claim. Wuhan locked down on January 23rd, and that article does not contradict it. But to say that Wuhan was already locked down in October (while the earliest reports of the virus are from December), and that it was because the government had known of the virus, and deliberately wanted to spread it - that's a different statement altogether.

[ajkula66]

That's not the same claim.

My apologies. It's somewhat difficult to keep track of all of this stuff nowadays, at least for myself.

[cadillacmike68]

The chicoms didn't start isolating wuhan internally in late Jan, it was months earlier. Can't go into further details. They knew what they were doing.

From the same site that George linked to. It clearly says "at least Dec", but it was even earlier than that:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 793737.cms

Here is an unclassified article. Note the pub date Feb 9. It mentions "for weeks after" placing the exodus in at least early to mid Dec and that's just what has been unearthed so far:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... uarantine/

Here's another, PITA to read, but MILLIONS left in Jan. I'm not a fan of NYT, but they indirectly admit what I stated. The chicoms knew...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... pread.html

dr_st, where's that vaccine that Israel said would be made in 3 months back in late Jan / Early Feb.

[mpcook]

The chicoms didn't start isolating wuhan internally in late Jan, it was months earlier. Can't go into further details. They knew what they were doing.

From the same site that George linked to. It clearly says "at least Dec", but it was even earlier than that:

Likely correct...there are a number of reports that US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus outbreak in China as early as November.

[dr_st]

The chicoms didn't start isolating wuhan internally in late Jan, it was months earlier. Can't go into further details. They knew what they were doing.

I'm sorry - are you claiming that you possess some knowledge that is not public, and a secret proof that you cannot divulge? Well, if that's the case, then we cannot judge it, and whether one should trust you or the official sources is everyone's personal choice. However, the articles you linked to clearly state that the lockdown started in late January 2020. I have not seen any report to the contrary. How long the virus has been in the wild before that, and what is the source - are different questions, and have no definite answers so far.

dr_st, where's that vaccine that Israel said would be made in 3 months back in late Jan / Early Feb.

I dunno; maybe they are also hiding it? I think there are a couple of vaccines manufactured in labs around the world that have started clinical trials on humans.

[cadillacmike68]

^^ Sec State Pompeo stated "December at least" meaning it was before that time. How much longer before, that's the 100,000 US lives question.

[dr_st]

^^ Sec State Pompeo stated "December at least" meaning it was before that time. How much longer before, that's the 100,000 US lives question.

Sec State Pompeo stated what is "December at least"?

It seems to me that you are either misunderstanding or deliberately obfuscating things. Can you find me a single direct quote of a reliable source that says there was any internal isolation of Wuhan before January?

[cadillacmike68]

^^ Sec State Pompeo stated "December at least" meaning it was before that time. How much longer before, that's the 100,000 US lives question.

Sec State Pompeo stated what is "December at least"?

It seems to me that you are either misunderstanding or deliberately obfuscating things. Can you find me a single direct quote of a reliable source that says there was any internal isolation of Wuhan before January?

Here is the full sentence of what Sec Pompeo said: “We know that in December at least, maybe earlier, the Chinese Communist Party came to understand the threat that was presented. And then we watched their actions – I've talked about some of them – denying information to the world,” Pompeo said.

This is from my post above. And yeah the chicoms were up to no good for quite a while on this.

[mpcook]

Sec State Pompeo stated what is "December at least"?

It seems to me that you are either misunderstanding or deliberately obfuscating things. Can you find me a single direct quote of a reliable source that says there was any internal isolation of Wuhan before January?

Here is the full sentence of what Sec Pompeo said: “We know that in December at least, maybe earlier, the Chinese Communist Party came to understand the threat that was presented. And then we watched their actions – I've talked about some of them – denying information to the world,” Pompeo said.

This is from my post above. And yeah the chicoms were up to no good for quite a while on this.

President Trump said on Friday that the United States would terminate its relationship with the WHO and cast significant blame on the Chinese government... “The world is now suffering as a result of the malfeasance of the Chinese government,” Mr. Trump said in a speech in the Rose Garden. “Countless lives have been taken, and profound economic hardship has been inflicted all around the globe.” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/29/heal ... s-who.html

[cadillacmike68]

A little O/T

"The world is now suffering as a result of the malfeasance of the Chinese government..."

Malfeasance, haha. I remember the first time I heard that word. It was when Potter was going off on George Bailey, my grandfather (really), after uncle Billy (yeah, I had an uncle Billy too) lost the $5k (or was it $7K?).

[dr_st]

Here is the full sentence of what Sec Pompeo said: “We know that in December at least, maybe earlier, the Chinese Communist Party came to understand the threat that was presented. And then we watched their actions – I've talked about some of them – denying information to the world,” Pompeo said.

I hope you understand that this is entirely not the same thing as what you claimed earlier.

The Chinese government is clearly at fault, and it has been known from the very beginning - they tried to deny the virus, undermine the magnitude of the threat or sweep it under the table. It is likely that this time lost in the early weeks contributed significantly to the spread of the disease.

With that said, they reacted late, but once they did, they appear to have reacted well as far as containing it in their own country. The rest of the world still had some warning, for example this article was published on March 10th, when there were less than 1,000 confirmed cases in the US. It seems that some countries reacted better than others to contain the spread. It also seems that the US was not among the countries that reacted best. I am not sufficiently familiar with the details of how the system works to have an opinion whether it was more due to the federal government, or the state governments, or even individual cities, or, as some would have you believe, Trump's tweets.

[Twiggy]

My province is slowly reopening, however I know that that's more to do with political pressure than science, so as a man of science, I am still staying home and only leaving rarely (not counting walks/runs/ and bike rides in the middle of nowhere in the country where I live, where risk is pretty much none) for necessary things like groceries and to the bank.

[cadillacmike68]

Here is the full sentence of what Sec Pompeo said: “We know that in December at least, maybe earlier, the Chinese Communist Party came to understand the threat that was presented. And then we watched their actions – I've talked about some of them – denying information to the world,” Pompeo said.

I hope you understand that this is entirely not the same thing as what you claimed earlier.

The Chinese government is clearly at fault, and it has been known from the very beginning - they tried to deny the virus, undermine the magnitude of the threat or sweep it under the table. It is likely that this time lost in the early weeks contributed significantly to the spread of the disease.

With that said, they reacted late, but once they did, they appear to have reacted well as far as containing it in their own country. The rest of the world still had some warning, for example this article was published on March 10th, when there were less than 1,000 confirmed cases in the US. It seems that some countries reacted better than others to contain the spread. It also seems that the US was not among the countries that reacted best. I am not sufficiently familiar with the details of how the system works to have an opinion whether it was more due to the federal government, or the state governments, or even individual cities, or, as some would have you believe, Trump's tweets.

I don't read or pay any attention the the Presiden't tweets, and don't even have a twitter account. No thanks.

The fact remains that the chicom govt blocked travel from wuhan to within their own country and allowed international travel from wuhan to the rest of the world from "at least December, maybe earlier". As a result of that there were millions of Chinese travelers from wuhan that went all over the globe while at the same time china was stating and the who was repeating "no indication of human to human transmission". It was all over every large city in the US by March 10. Actually it was all the place by Jan when the doors were closed from china, and then spread by local travel.

As far as the US goes, FL has a larger population than NY (state not NYC) and has a pop density of 400 ppl / Sq Mi while NY has a pop density of 412 ppl / sq mi so Fl is 97% as densely populated as NY. But NY has an order of magnitude larger case and death count than FL (can't look up the numbers have to get out for something) and FL has nowhere near the number of nursing home cases or deaths, because NY (and NJ, PA and MN or MI or both) state governors all ORDERED nursing homes to accept all patients regardless of their CV19 status, while FL did the opposite.

[dr_st]

The fact remains that the chicom govt blocked travel from wuhan to within their own country and allowed international travel from wuhan to the rest of the world from "at least December, maybe earlier".

That's not a fact; this is something, which currently seems to have been made up by you (by misinterpreting and improperly extrapolating known data and statements). I will not stand by you spreading this misinformation, at least until you bring a single credible source that says exactly that (which I don't think you'll be able to do, since it's false). Sorry.

[mpcook]

The fact remains that the chicom govt blocked travel from wuhan to within their own country and allowed international travel from wuhan to the rest of the world from "at least December, maybe earlier".

That's not a fact; this is something, which currently seems to have been made up by you (by misinterpreting and improperly extrapolating known data and statements). I will not stand by you spreading this misinformation, at least until you bring a single credible source that says exactly that (which I don't think you'll be able to do, since it's false). Sorry.

Maybe end of January anyway - "There is new evidence to show that China locked down all domestic traffic internally by end January 2020 but pushed to open foreign travel till end March."

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/bl ... gn-travel/

[FryPpy]

I was reading this topic from the begining but only now have some time to write my observations i've gathered.

First of all in Moscow we slowly unlocking (after lockdown, or selfisolation as we call it). Yes in Moscow things are worse (in absolute ratings) than in other regions of Russia. But people accepts rules of wearing masks or may be temperature have risen and the virus spread speed went down.
All this time i have worked from home (off the office working) with rare forays into the office (may be once a week or may be rare).
Bad news - once upon a time (in late april) body temperature suddenly goes to 38*C and went to normal 36.6 in 2 days. No more flux symptoms were observed. Some strange feelings in chest (maybe this is miss-feeling (delusion) in all this paranoia;). So i didn't went to hospital, suggesting that there is a higher probability of meeting CV infection here. And in May holidays (05/01 - 05/12) i went into full self quarantine and monitoring. No more objective symptoms of pneumonia have been observed. (I have pneumonia couple years before). After 3 weeks i have lift self quarantine. Still wasn't in hospital. It is bad behavior but i am very frightened of possibility to meet real CV infection here. I am wearing mask to protect others from myself. Was it CV or not i don't know.

About china and USA.
Every one have own feeling of time and events.
I was informed from TV and radio (here in Russia) about Wuhan problems from late december '19. In December 19 there was build RU-CN bridge from Blagoveshensk to Heihe (may be i have misspelled this city names - it is 2 city on both shores of Amur river) and in early january '20 it was locked down after returning some tourists from CN on buses.

So the information about virus was accessible from december to anyone who can listen.
I believe that US and other countries Foreign Intelligence Authorities have more information than i have. And Country leaders can access this information...
But like in 1941 when there was couple messages about germany's invasion of Russia, our leader simple didn't believed this and millions have died in WW2.
Trump did't believed until too late. EU have lost too many time and showed fragmentation in taking unified and fast decisions. By this time our leader have believed (learned mistakes) and begin construction (or may be intense finishing of early planned construction) of additional hospital sites in Moscow downtown. I remember that, when i have listened this from TV, i have joked that he (Putin) have info about severity of infection in Russia. These time we have only few dozen of infected tourists (including some returned over ^that^ bridge).

The first and primary goal of any country leader is his own people. From the first days CN doctors have no information about this virus. And use only common treatment for this pneumonia like disease. If chicoms have information about real roots of this virus (artificial / engineered or not) they haven't share this information with own healthcare in first weeks (why?).

Main goal to stop panic.
May be even in CN there was information block about amount of infection spread in Wuhan. Why? Simple - if you think that democracy means where anyone have right to act on each own. It's right, but not in state of emergency. Anyone if got information about plagued city will ran away from here... taking part of this infection to other parts of the country. So main point is to stay cool for a while and make people settle and not to move out of hometown. And the time was supportive of it.

Now the time feelings.
You think that New Year is 31 dec and Christmas is 25 dec. We have other feelings 31 dec and 7 jan. and Chinese people other. Moreover they have celebrated 2 new year holidays.
And according to ancient tradition, they are going to gather from all around the world in their native home to celebrate New Year. And this was used. International airlines was open to accept this immigrants going home to celebrate. And lockdown was only in january combined with full lockdown of Wuhan.
Bloody but it works. 12Million city accepting not infected parents to lock them all in Plagued city. No means for treatment infection. Ony first test systems. Shortage in masks and other medical things (in CN? Yes! New Year - production have stopped, and i have remembered Russia have shipped aircraft with this stuff to Wuhan in jan '20). It can be worse than 85000/5000 disease/death ratio. Moscow is only 10M, NY 8M + 12M downtown and we done this worse:(

Why i have this info. From december '19 i was tracking some postal shipments from CN. It is bad when some things hang on CN customs for 2,3 weeks because New Year. And even worse if it hangs for months because transport lockdown. My shipments have left CN about jan 16 '20...

AND TO THE ThinkPads forum main topic...
It was GPD MicroPC. Small 7" notebook with plenty of ports (COM, RJ45, USB-A, USB-C, HDMI). BLACK. Very reminiscent of PC-110. But without trackpoint. And on awful Gemini Lake chipset. Only Win 10. No CSM in BIOS. And even Ubuntu 18.04 crippled by designed video solution:( Ubuntu 19.04 have X-server failing when first logon screen is showing up.

[dr_st]

Maybe end of January anyway - "There is new evidence to show that China locked down all domestic traffic internally by end January 2020 but pushed to open foreign travel till end March."

Perhaps this is what confuses cadillacmike68 - it is true that China did not block international travel from most of China, but certainly nowhere is it claimed that international travel was allowed from Wuhan after the lockdown on January 23rd. That would be preposterous.

And anyways, all the data were public on dashboards such as this starting from early February. According to that, cases in other regions of China, such as Shanghai and Beijing never exploded like they did in Hubei.

[cadillacmike68]

I am referring to Jan (before the 23rd), Dec, likely before Dec, that china was allowing international travel out of wuhan to the rest of the world. And the Jan 23 ban was only from china to the US, imposed by the US, not voluntarily by china which continued to allow flights out to the rest of the world for some time. The flight records are there if you go look them, 3 per week into NYC alone, and the chinese did not stop it until weeks after Jan 23.

From a cnbc site:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/reuters ... break.html

"The city has seen huge growth in flight traffic over the last years. Airlines had 332,861 seats on offer from Wuhan Tianhe International airport this month, double the number available in Jan. 2010, according to Flightglobal aviation website.

Most flights are domestic, with 111 flights to Beijing each week, 93 to the southwestern city of Chengdu, 84 to the southern city of Guangzhou, and 83 to Haikou, it added.

With regard to international flights, more than 140 are due to head to the Thai capital Bangkok, a popular destination for Chinese tourists, this month. More than 60 flights a month depart for Japan.

Global links include 13 direct flights to San Francisco each month, 17 to Dubai and 14 to New York City. Wuhan also offers direct connections to European cities such as Istanbul, London, Moscow, Paris, and Rome."


From an NYT link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/c ... tions.html

"Since Chinese officials disclosed the outbreak of a mysterious pneumonialike illness to international health officials on New Year’s Eve, at least 430,000 people have arrived in the United States on direct flights from China, including nearly 40,000 in the two months after President Trump imposed restrictions on such travel, according to an analysis of data collected in both countries.

The bulk of the passengers, who were of multiple nationalities, arrived in January, at airports in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Chicago, Seattle, Newark and Detroit. Thousands of them flew directly from Wuhan, the center of the coronavirus outbreak, as American public health officials were only beginning to assess the risks to the United States."

From an et site:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/bl ... gn-travel/

"There is new evidence to show that China locked down all domestic traffic internally by end January 2020 but pushed to open foreign travel till end March. Data from Tom Tom traffic index, a traffic location site that covers 416 cities across 57 countries show that as a result of this strategy, China, intentionally or otherwise, was able to lockdown its cities unknown to the world. While this reduced the spread of the Corona virus within China, China’s aggressive foreign travel policy lead to a virus explosion worldwide. Here is the chronological events of what happened with the requisite traffic data from 10 major cities globally and the statements from Chinese leaders that will help readers reach their own conclusions."


All I'm saying is that they started locking down wuhan earlier than late Jan, and at the same time, they were pushing travel out of the country. And that's what these reports cite.

Except that nobody knows the exact date china started locking down wuhan from the rest of china. We know it wasn't until the end of Jan that travel out was blocked internationally, except to the US because of the President's unilateral ban starting 31 Jan. I maintain that is was before Dec. The chicoms knew there were problems because those "disclosures of a pneumonia like illness" to their cronies at who did not manifest themselves in a day. It took 3-4 weeks for the "illness" to actually develop into what it did, that puts the time frame into late nov at the latest.

That's the 100,000 lives question. It's in my top 3 to ask st Peter.

Got to go now. My original franklin mint star trek 3d chess set finally arrived from down under. Those aussie post bimbos sat on it for over 7 weeks in melbourne.

[cadillacmike68]

PS>

a quick count shows the 7 large western european countries; GB, DE, FR, ES, IT, BG, NL have over 156,000 deaths so far, 1.5x the amount the US has. I haven't totaled up the populations though, It may be more or less than 1.5x the US pop of 330 million.

[dr_st]

I am referring to Jan (before the 23rd), Dec, likely before Dec, that china was allowing international travel out of wuhan to the rest of the world.

That's right, and they allowed domestic travel as well.

And the Jan 23 ban was only from china to the US, imposed by the US, not voluntarily by china which continued to allow flights out to the rest of the world for some time. The flight records are there if you go look them, 3 per week into NYC alone, and the chinese did not stop it until weeks after Jan 23.

Once again you are mixing unrelated data. Wuhan and other cities in Hubei were completely locked down on January 23rd, for domestic and international travel alike. Travel from other cities in China continued.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_ ... n_in_Hubei

All I'm saying is that they started locking down wuhan earlier than late Jan, and at the same time, they were pushing travel out of the country. And that's what these reports cite.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong. That's not what these reports cite, you are just not reading them correctly. Instead of posting and quoting from the same links for the 3rd and 4th time, maybe you should try to actually read them thoroughly and understand.

Except that nobody knows the exact date china started locking down wuhan from the rest of china.

Yes, we do. That's the January 23rd lockdown. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article:

At 2 am on 23 January 2020, authorities issued a notice informing residents of Wuhan that from 10 am, all public transport, including buses, railways, flights, and ferry services would be suspended. The Wuhan Airport, the Wuhan railway station, and the Wuhan Metro were all closed. The residents of Wuhan were also not allowed to leave the city without permission from the authorities.[18][19] The notice caused an exodus from Wuhan. An estimated 300,000 people were reported to have left Wuhan by train alone before the 10 am lockdown.

Which means that even on the morning of the lockdown, people managed to leave en masse (which in itself was a catastrophic failure in many ways).

I maintain that is was before Dec.

You can maintain whatever you like, but there is no evidence that Wuhan was locked down internally before January 23rd, while there are plenty evidence to the contrary. The fact that the disease was known before that time, is a given, and I'm not arguing that. However, your bizarre claim that the Chinese government locked down Wuhan internally "in December, maybe earlier", while allowing international travel out of there, allegedly to deliberately spread the virus around the world, is misinformation in the category of slander. Not that I particularly care about the Chinese government's reputation, but I really have a pet peeve of not letting people get away with spreading nonsense as if it's fact.

Got to go now. My original franklin mint star trek 3d chess set finally arrived from down under.

That's amazing. Maybe one day I'll try to get one and learn the rules. I'm terrible enough at regular chess, so I'm not sure I should even bother.

a quick count shows the 7 large western european countries; GB, DE, FR, ES, IT, BG, NL have over 156,000 deaths so far, 1.5x the amount the US has. I haven't totaled up the populations though, It may be more or less than 1.5x the US pop of 330 million.

You can see here the death rate per million per country. The US is #9 worst with Belgium, Spain, UK, Italy, France, Sweden, the Netherlands and Ireland doing worse.

[RealBlackStuff]

That population count is ~352 mio.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... population
But if you also include Russia, you need to add 146 mio., bringing the total to almost 500 million.
I'm living in Ireland, a rather small country on an island, with 5 mio. population, and 25,000 infections.
There have been ~1650 Covid-19 deaths here, 62% of those occurred in care homes, to people with an average age of 84, most of whom also had underlying health problems (heart disease and diabetes sticking out).
Contrary to the neighbouring UK, where Boris Johnson (similar to his twin-brother in USA) is making a total mess of it, Ireland went into lockdown much sooner.
We are lucky that we don't have the French navy accompanying illegal immigrants to the UK... https://rmx.news/article/article/uk-s-n ... ish-waters
And we also don't have government officials openly flouting the rules, as if they do not exist for them:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/29/cu ... ain-lying/

[MikalE]

Now, it has affected me.

On 18 April I ordered an HOm narrow gauge Swiss Allegra ABe 8/12 locomotive/railcar set made by Bemo DE.

Union Modellbahn shipped this $720 order the next day. It landed in the States on 24 April and has cleared customs. Now it is back in USPS's incompetent hands. Over 60 days with no movement or status updates.

I contacted US Customs and Border patrol three times. The third time they told me unequivocally it had cleared customs and USPS now has my package.

I contacted the USPS with no answer. I filed a missing mail report, with still no answer.

I then contacted the US Postal Service Inspector General's office. 30 minutes later I got an email saying they referred it to the Illinois Consumer Affairs Division. Fat lot of good that's going to do.

A friend of mine is the Postmaster here in town and I contacted him with my tracking number. Two days later he calls me and told me he spoke to a station supervisor at Chicago ISC.

They told him they are staffed at only 30% of normal.

And that's why I still don't have my new model train.

[cadillacmike68]

At least yours got to the states. It should take about a week or so to get to you.

My 3D chess set sat in Melbourne Australia for TWO MONTHS before they sent it on the the states.

[theterminator93]

My wife ordered a $750 ball-jointed doll and some accessories for her collection (she has dolls, I have ThinkPads) from Japan and it shipped out just before the weekend. Normally shipments via EMS from Japan arrive in 3-4 days; they are estimating it will arrive next Monday. DHL is the international carrier but depending who they hand it off to once it's stateside, I am not holding my breath.

[RealBlackStuff]

I sent two padded envelopes with LED-mod stuff to USA on June 3, 2020.
One to California, delivered on June 10.
One to Michigan, delivered on June 18.

To keep boredom at bay, I have put up an extra table in the kitchen.
My wife and I use it for large jigsaw puzzles, a few minutes here, an hour there, whenever we feel like it.

[cadillacmike68]

Now there is talk of banning alcohol on flights ?!?!? And Aruba has this ridiculous mandatory covid insurance at some $15 per day. wtf??? I this keeps up my streak of consecutive yearly trips there will be broken.
We cannot make a trip that length without our Baileys!!!

[MikalE]

American already has with the exception of international flights.

[dingdong]

A great & long read, the author is a data analyst:

Facts about CoVid the news is doing everything possible not to report


Enough Of The Virus BS