OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

[rkawakami]

I will offer a different explanation. Because you were against him from day one, you interpreted everything he did in the most negative way possible, and viewed all his actions, words, decisions, policies, through the prism of those who oppose him and not those who support him.

So basically you're proposing that I was prejudiced against him. Yeah, that sounds about right. I was hoping that he would surround himself with people who were knowledgeable (or qualified) about the posts they were assuming or at the very least, they were not in favor of tearing the department down. Or that he would become more presidential (yeah, whatever that means). But that didn't happen. If he didn't promote the term "fake news", that would have gained some positive points for me. If he didn't say and do things that were racist, that would have been good. If he didn't spout off on Twitter for every little thing on his mind, that would have (slightly) raised my opinion of him.

I would say that you've probably met some people in your life where you get a very strong impression, good or bad, within a few minutes. With Trump there's been years of him in the news and the documentation that goes along with it. I'm sure by now people have made up their minds about DJT one way or the other.

That he has become a laughingstock by most of the other world leaders, with significant exceptions by those who are generally known as dictators (Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, et al).

I will argue that this is simply not true, in either direction. And no, opinion pieces from leftist media will not convince me. I could search opinion pieces from rightist media to counter them, but since those won't convince you, is there really a point?

Well, it would tell me and the others who read this who you trust for information and facts. I'm talking about news, as reported by people who might have gone to school and obtained journalism degrees and not opinion hosts who have recently been sued to the tune of a seven-figure settlement.

ref: https://www.foxnews.com/media/trudeau-j ... aced-video
ref: https://www.foxnews.com/media/varney-en ... -president

ref: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/busi ... -rich.html
ref: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/media/se ... index.html
ref: https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-new ... it-2020-11
ref: https://www.npr.org/2020/11/24/93854534 ... nton-leaks
ref: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... a-1094896/
ref: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... y-theories
(Gee I wonder why I can't find this story at foxnews.com or wsj.com or breitbart.com or oann.com. Oh! wait, here's one:)
ref: https://www.newsmax.com/us/seth-rich-se ... id/998625/
I have to give credit to Newsmax. I guess that they're trying to stick it to Fox. This goes to show you that sometimes right-wing news outlets try to suppress the news. What's the reason for that? Would it upset their viewers/readers to know this little bit of news?

[ajkula66]

I'm talking about news, as reported by people who might have gone to school and obtained journalism degrees

A degree in journalism doesn't automatically make one an unbiased reporter/journalist any more than a degree in business management guarantees a graduate turning into a successful businessman/woman...

[rkawakami]

True, but there's a higher chance that they will know about vetting proper sources, sentence structure and be able to relate the facts of the story without imposing their own bias. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but that's what I think...

Or to put it another way.... I'd trust the writings of somebody who spent money and time to learn a craft than somebody who just spouts their own opinion.

[ajkula66]

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but that's what I think...

I believe that you indeed are...

Or to put it another way.... I'd trust the writings of somebody who spent money and time to learn a craft than somebody who just spouts their own opinion.

Most of these cats are spouting their own opinions, regardless of what their CV/resume states about their education.

Furthermore, left-wing bias is pretty much being embedded into heads of the students nowadays and has been for decades, so a lot of people are not necessarily aware of their own bias.

Any semblance of conservative views will make you undesirable on just about any campus and good luck finding a place that will allow you to teach. And I'm talking about subjects that are not even remotely connected to anything that can be deemed political. Reverse McCarthyism at its finest. I've got family members whose stories would make your head spin. World renowned in their field of expertise.

[TonyJZX]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/dono ... &r=US&IR=T

So they spend $3 mil. to find 132 more votes for Biden.

This is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals maybe ever.

So right now Trudi Guiliani is losing 1 to 38.

I'm sure the evidence of STOLEN election will come any day now.

Maybe ask the blind laptop repair guy in Delaware? Oh wait he's closed up shop and gone into hiding... I wonder why?

[600X]

Furthermore, left-wing bias is pretty much being embedded into heads of the students nowadays and has been for decades, so a lot of people are not necessarily aware of their own bias.

As a recent journalism grad I can confirm this.

[dr_st]

Or that he would become more presidential (yeah, whatever that means).

My guess based on how people promote this term (and who these people are) that when they say "presidential", they imagine Obama - someone who is a smooth talker, with good manners. Trump is the complete opposite of that.

Now, there is no reason, why a person can't be both, but when given a choice between a well-mannered smooth talker, but doesn't do much (or does things I disagree with), and someone who is coarse (even to the point of obnoxiousness) but gets things done the way I like, I would prefer the latter.

To reiterate the quote that appeared earlier in this thread - when voting for someone to be president, prime-minister, or whatever - I am choosing a leader, not a friend.

If he didn't say and do things that were racist, that would have been good.

He didn't. Not a single one. The media who you choose to trust has just been constantly promoting "fake news" (yeah, that term again), and putting fake spin on things to brainwash you into thinking Trump is racist. The leftist media in my country has taken it one step further and was actually accusing him of anti-semitism.

Well, it would tell me and the others who read this who you trust for information and facts.

I think I've said it before - I trust no one completely, as I understand everyone has an agenda. Even when it comes to facts - they choose what to report and how to emphasize it. I definitely don't take anything from anyone's "opinion" column as the truth. I read multiple sources, whose biases are known to me, and I adjust according to these biases.

I'm talking about news, as reported by people who might have gone to school and obtained journalism degrees

As ajkula66 and 600X have succinctly explained, these would be probably be the last people I would trust.

[RealBlackStuff]

A cookie of his own dough...
Trump’s Pennsylvania Appeal Rejected in Scathing Decision by His Own Appointee

the 3rd Circuit judges who rejected the appeal were all appointed by Republicans: Bibas, who was nominated by Trump in 2017, Chief Justice Brooks Smith, who was nominated in 2001 by President Bush; and Judge Michael Chagares, who was nominated by Bush in 2006.

[pkiff]

If he didn't say and do things that were racist, that would have been good.

He didn't. Not a single one. The media who you choose to trust has just been constantly promoting "fake news" (yeah, that term again), and putting fake spin on things to brainwash you into thinking Trump is racist.

Wait a second, you don't think he has said or done anything that could be construed as racist? It's hard not to read that claim as a bit of a challenge!

I understand that many people don't think that Trump is in fact "racist", but there are no shortage of actual things he has said and done that other people view as fairly straightforward evidence of at least momentary instances of some racist characteristics. Here are a handful that spring to my mind off the top of my head:

• his record of unequal treatment of Black tenants in his housing units
• his campaign to push for the conviction and death penalty for the Central Park 5
• his years-long campaign to promote "birtherism"
• his comments about Mexicans during his campaign launch
• his repeated use of the name "Pocahontas" to refer to Elizabeth Warren
• his reference to a judge's Mexican heritage when a case was decided against Trump University

There are for sure differences of interpretation available in most of those cases, but it doesn't take a blind faith in fake news to interpret some of those as at least problematic! And unlike many politicians, Trump's style has been to never apologize or back down from anything he says or does, which means that he rarely, if ever, corrects any potential misunderstandings about things that he has said. People who view Trump as racist are not just imagining things or falling prey to fake news.

I get that Trump received increased support from non-white voters this year, and that he has always had support from some Black celebrities. And I get that people who support him claim that the rise in employment amongst Blacks has been a result of his policies. And that in person, he has spent time with and done business with lots of non-whites from various backgrounds. But that doesn't mean he hasn't also done and said some things that are racist.

Phil.

[ajkula66]

But that doesn't mean he hasn't also done and said some things that are racist.

Context is everything when it comes to stuff like this.

The very idea to comment on the judge's ethnic background was ill-advised at best, but one could flip the roles and question whether the said judge's decision was at least in part prompted by Trump's comments on criminal immigrants from Mexico.

I could elaborate on the rest of your points and have no problem doing so at your request.

[TonyJZX]

Racism is different things to different people. To some racism is shouting "kill the J*ws and N*ggers"... to some its actually actionable... if I'm not hanging folks from trees then its not racism.

People have a cutting point of what is acceptable.

For something as simple as denouncing white supremacy and the whole "good people on both sides" things.

I also think I'm not in the habit of defending people I dont know or dont care about.

I dont like making excuses for myself so why the hell would I sit here and defend this guy who is nothing to me?

if you have to make excuses and talk context about a guy who wouldnt return the favor then why bother?

Unless its some kind of identity crisis for you? If I'm an Arab or Iranian in the middle east and I gonna show my butt defending world leaders as if they're my family.. hell I wouldnt even defend my actual family that fervently and yet... here we are.

I'm not about to sit here and defend and contextualise everything Biden says either so who would I extend that courtesy to anyone else?

Their words and actions should be self evident at face value.

[ajkula66]

if you have to make excuses and talk context about a guy who wouldnt return the favor then why bother?

Nothing to do with excuses. A matter of principle. Not something that I'd expect you to understand.

Unless its some kind of identity crisis for you?

Lol. Your attempts to insult me are truly pathetic. Grow up. And a set while you're at it.

Their words and actions should be self evident at face value.

Both Goebbels and Beria had a thing or two to say about using people's words against them in interesting ways. I presume that you're OK with that, as long as you don't like the individual in question.Who cares if they get hung for something they said/wrote and was used *out of context* to convict them...

[rkawakami]

Wait a second, you don't think he has said or done anything that could be construed as racist? It's hard not to read that claim as a bit of a challenge!

I understand that many people don't think that Trump is in fact "racist", but there are no shortage of actual things he has said and done that other people view as fairly straightforward evidence of at least momentary instances of some racist characteristics. Here are a handful that spring to my mind off the top of my head:

• his record of unequal treatment of Black tenants in his housing units
• his campaign to push for the conviction and death penalty for the Central Park 5
• his years-long campaign to promote "birtherism"
• his comments about Mexicans during his campaign launch
• his repeated use of the name "Pocahontas" to refer to Elizabeth Warren
• his reference to a judge's Mexican heritage when a case was decided against Trump University

I think you missed the quote attributed to him about s--thole/house countries back in 2018:

WARNING: coarse language in the following links:
ref: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... rumps-slur
ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Odk4n_KeY (CBC News)
ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-b3FWwPb34 (The Daily Show)

edit: Corrected "coarse" type

[pkiff]

Unless its some kind of identity crisis for you?

Lol. Your attempts to insult me are truly pathetic. Grow up. And a set while you're at it.

Whoops! I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread and prompt us into personal attack territory - though I was well aware that posting about racism might head us somewhere challenging. Let's remember to keep the conversation civil here and focused on the ideas/facts/fake-news/what-have-you, rather than the personal, despite the very serious and heart felt disagreements.

But that doesn't mean he hasn't also done and said some things that are racist.

Context is everything when it comes to stuff like this.

I can definitely agree that context can be absolutely critical to understanding stuff like this!

[TPFanatic]

I hear Obama will declare war on Iran to stay in office.

[cadillacmike68]

I hear Obama will declare war on Iran to stay in office.

That's funny because he isn't In office.

Just to inform you, and any other uninformed souls who don't know the facts, we haven't been in a declared war since 2 Sep 1945

[RealBlackStuff]

Remember this:

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate DJT promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years.

Instead your utterly incompetent POTUS increased the USA's national debt by 36%!
You believed his lies, now you are paying the price!

Now WHO has been stealing?

And WHO has been wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money to play golf?
If he is as rich as he claims to be, after January 20, 2021 it shouldn't be that difficult to present him the bill for his "travel expenses", payable upon receipt.

[TPFanatic]

No no no, we only care about the debt and the golf and the emails when Obama and Hillary do it.

[dr_st]

True. And it works both ways actually.

Another technique (broadly employed by supporters of both parties): if something is good - it's due to our awesome administration. If something is bad - it's not our fault, but that of the previous terrible administration, who left us in this mess.

[ajkula66]

Another technique (broadly employed by supporters of both parties): if something is good - it's due to our awesome administration. If something is bad - it's not our fault, but that of the previous terrible administration, who left us in this mess.

QFT.

At the risk of repeating myself, whoever wants to understand the roots of U.S. national debt going haywire - long before Trump, although he most certainly added more than his fair share - needs to read David Stockman's book on the failure of "Reagan Revolution".

There is absolutely zero political will - and this has been the case for decades now - to reign in spending regardless of who controls the congress and/or holds the WH. Those who had been screaming their heads off about it - Dr. Ron Paul comes to mind - were laughed off the stage and the train kept a rollin' as The Yardbirds sang back in '65...

At this point in the game, there are no good outcomes left in this respect. Whoever thinks that falling of this house of cards will adversely affect just the U.S. must be living on a different planet.

[BillMorrow]

@ray..

ray, my friend, you are not the only one a victim of racism.. SO SORRY for the long post below..
you remember jerry brown..? the brown dynasty in california..?
well, i went to west portal school with jerry and we were, sort of, friends there.. in about 1943 MOL.. SORT OF.. until his father learned of it.. then jerry was gone..
there, at west portal school i was the only brown guy.. can't tell it from my fathers name Morrow but my mothers mothers name was "Doña Carlota Trinidad Rubio y Garcia de Salas Alvarez de Pilona y Quinones.. you can (ugh) google that name and find her marrige certificate onlin, believe it or not.. i think it is in/on geni.com too..
so why do i say this.. ? to show that being a brown child in an all anglo white school was not a pleasant experience even though i was too dumb to realize what was happening.. i was called liver lips, ni gger, sambo and other names i have forgotten.. i was never chosen for ANYTHING.. i remember a birthday party in 1st grade glass, the entire class was invited except for me... i was told to stay in the cloak room while the other first grade kids had a birthday party.. now i realize why it was so hard to get a job.. finally got a job at the telephone company..! other smaller business's..? NO, nothing here for you.. even the city of daly city.. they admitted i scored the highest they had ever seen in their employment test but claimed they had to give the job to a veteran.. in the'60's..! ok..
SO, you are not the only one discriminated against.. i'll bet you were not bullied at school..
and i had, maybe still have, a friend born in one of those FDR concentration camps.. i was there, i watched newsreels at the empire theater on west portal ave. of those camps.. i was 4 maybe..
i won't defend trump, his defense is apparent to all who have a fair mind.. i see all the links you show and most all of them are CNN, NYT, WaPo, et al.. ALL trump haters.. they all hate trump..? why..???
i think calling trump a racist is just WRONG.. hell, i recently used the racist ploy on someone and it worked.. they shut up, fast..
again i say i was skeptical but hillary..? barf.. a crook who was selling access to her presidency for years before she was running..
(and biden who has been and continues to, sell access and favors, with hunter as his bag man between the EFFing russians, chinese and ukrainans.. all the same devils the left press accuses trump of having sold out to.. (i know, bad english, but EFF it )
now we have this election and this discussion SHOULD be, but not necessarily so, be about the stolen election..

those who hate trump will never admit it, those who love trump will always see it and those middle of the roaders won't much care that this election WAS stolen..
i present yet another link to a video.. interesting.. and there is a follow on link..
let ALL y'all watch with an unbiased mind.. just this one time..
https://youtu.be/qZ_ks_sNITg

[BillMorrow]

**
snippage here
**
At this point in the game, there are no good outcomes left in this respect. Whoever thinks that falling of this house of cards will adversely affect just the U.S. must be living on a different planet.

you are right, george.. it is all a matter of WHEN..
remember: "Fortune favors the prepared (mind)".. but the wisdom is there..!

[BillMorrow]

Remember this:

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Republican candidate DJT promised he would eliminate the nation’s debt in eight years.

Instead your utterly incompetent POTUS increased the USA's national debt by 36%!
You believed his lies, now you are paying the price!

Now WHO has been stealing?

And WHO has been wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money to play golf?
If he is as rich as he claims to be, after January 20, 2021 it shouldn't be that difficult to present him the bill for his "travel expenses", payable upon receipt.

golf..? is that all you have..?? golf..???



36%..? when.. NOW..? after the china virus.. yes, it IS a WUHAN Virus.. the chicoms have succeeded in changing YOUR language..
covid19 my a$$..
forget not the virologist who says this was developed, not something that jumped from animal to human..

then recall the fake impeachment, fake muller investigation and constant state, local and other national and probably international investigations of trump, his family, all his business's and anything else trump..?
not free, costly to the investigators and the investigated..
and yet nothing and all that can be said is trump and his father would not take black tenants in their housing..? 40 or 50 years ago..? pretty thin gruel that especially given his, DJT's current performance.. most or all of which is hidden by the leftist media..

[BillMorrow]

Wait a second, you don't think he has said or done anything that could be construed as racist? It's hard not to read that claim as a bit of a challenge!

I understand that many people don't think that Trump is in fact "racist", but there are no shortage of actual things he has said and done that other people view as fairly straightforward evidence of at least momentary instances of some racist characteristics. Here are a handful that spring to my mind off the top of my head:

• his record of unequal treatment of Black tenants in his housing units
• his campaign to push for the conviction and death penalty for the Central Park 5
• his years-long campaign to promote "birtherism"
• his comments about Mexicans during his campaign launch
• his repeated use of the name "Pocahontas" to refer to Elizabeth Warren
• his reference to a judge's Mexican heritage when a case was decided against Trump University

I think you missed the quote attributed to him about s--thole/house countries back in 2018:

WARNING: course language in the following links:
ref: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... rumps-slur
ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Odk4n_KeY (CBC News)
ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-b3FWwPb34 (The Daily Show)

oh my gosh, too much here to refute..
i'll start by, again, ignoring the hyperbole from the hateful left media..

i WILL say that trump used the democrat way as described in rules for radicals to defeat some or maybe all of his opponents in the primaries..
as for pocahontas..? warren deserves that for her theft by stealth of others possible enhanced rights to the job SHE got over a real minority..

let us face it MOST in the democrat party have no morals.. none at all.. MOST repubs are to nice/honorable to use the democrat playbook against the democrats..
i have first hand knowledge of that one..!

[pianowizard]

gosh, this thread is getting hot under the collar..

so here is a link:
https://populist.press/head-of-dominion ... eady-cast/

be sure to click the red "click here" link under the video..

ALSO, it was reported, i forget where, PA maybe, there were 1.8 million mail in ballots sent OUT and 2.25 million mail in ballots received back..

it will all wind up in court so picking nits about some precincts being in one state when they are really in another is the sort of error that creeps into pleadings when people are rushing to and fro trying to get a filing out in a timely manner.. been there, worked on that in my sordid past..
so how to explain 135% votes over voters..?

my popcorn is running low.. got to get more..

USA Today's Fact Check site has fact-checked a fair amount of election-related claims. Concerning the above, see:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 450032002/

From the article:

"A data set from the Pennsylvania Department of State on the primary election shows that 1,823,148 mail-in ballot requests were made, the exact number used in the post to claim that Pennsylvania mailed out that number of ballots for the 2020 general election."

Take a look at the rest of the site, which I find quite informative: https://www.usatoday.com/news/factcheck/

[BillMorrow]

gosh, this thread is getting hot under the collar..

so here is a link:
https://populist.press/head-of-dominion ... eady-cast/

be sure to click the red "click here" link under the video..

ALSO, it was reported, i forget where, PA maybe, there were 1.8 million mail in ballots sent OUT and 2.25 million mail in ballots received back..

it will all wind up in court so picking nits about some precincts being in one state when they are really in another is the sort of error that creeps into pleadings when people are rushing to and fro trying to get a filing out in a timely manner.. been there, worked on that in my sordid past..
so how to explain 135% votes over voters..?

my popcorn is running low.. got to get more..

USA Today's Fact Check site has fact-checked a fair amount of election-related claims. Concerning the above, see:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 450032002/

From the article:

"A data set from the Pennsylvania Department of State on the primary election shows that 1,823,148 mail-in ballot requests were made, the exact number used in the post to claim that Pennsylvania mailed out that number of ballots for the 2020 general election."

Take a look at the rest of the site, which I find quite informative: https://www.usatoday.com/news/factcheck/

USA today..? WOW, another trump loving conservative publication..

and how long do you think it took for the PA SOS to change his data to agree with what the wanted it to show..

i'll be very interested in the ultimate court cases..

[exTPfan]

Racist? Bill Morrow may be ignorant of this, but everyone else in the U.S. knows that "count every legal vote" means "count every white vote". When Trump rants that he won except for the illegal votes he means he won except for the black votes (in this, he may be correct). All Trump's shenanigans since the election have been an attempt to disqualify the votes of those in largely black areas. Even Trump's own judges can't stomach that.

The Republican party has been racist since the time of Nixon's Southern Strategy. Its voter suppression is an attempted revival of Jim Crow. LBJ (a Southerner!) put a stop to Jim Crow with the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts, which is why he is so hated by some members of this forum.

[cadillacmike68]

Racist? Bill Morrow may be ignorant of this, but everyone else in the U.S. knows that "count every legal vote" means "count every white vote". When Trump rants that he won except for the illegal votes he means he won except for the black votes (in this, he may be correct). All Trump's shenanigans since the election have been an attempt to disqualify the votes of those in largely black areas. Even Trump's own judges can't stomach that.

The Republican party has been racist since the time of Nixon's Southern Strategy. Its voter suppression is an attempted revival of Jim Crow. LBJ (a Southerner!) put a stop to Jim Crow with the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts, which is why he is so hated by some members of this forum.

That's even more stooopid than the idiots on pmsnbc.

You know what states were AGAINST the CRA - Southern states - nearly ALL run by Democrats. What party was KKK wizard Byrd in - Oh yeah the democrat party. Get to know your history better before spouting off.

[pkiff]

i present yet another link to a video.. interesting.. and there is a follow on link..
let ALL y'all watch with an unbiased mind.. just this one time..
https://youtu.be/qZ_ks_sNITg

Thanks for the link, Bill. Very disturbing claims about that Dominion executive, his views, and his purported access to the election software running the voting machines in Georgia. I haven't followed this particular claim, and will take a deeper look this week. Though I confess that my mind is becoming harder and harder to sway on this election fraud business - you are right that it is difficult to convince people who have become set in their beliefs.

[BillMorrow]

i present yet another link to a video.. interesting.. and there is a follow on link..
let ALL y'all watch with an unbiased mind.. just this one time..
https://youtu.be/qZ_ks_sNITg

Thanks for the link, Bill. Very disturbing claims about that Dominion executive, his views, and his purported access to the election software running the voting machines in Georgia. I haven't followed this particular claim, and will take a deeper look this week. Though I confess that my mind is becoming harder and harder to sway on this election fraud business - you are right that it is difficult to convince people who have become set in their beliefs.

phil..
i think that dominion company is a canadian company and, from the reports i have heard, that these are not used in canada for elections..
we ALL know how easy it is to fudge code to produce the result desired..
shake the election bag and a lot seems to be falling out..
here is an interesting video about a used, not dominion, voting machine..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmoxE1sJc1c
remember when obama said US elections were secure because they are all local (not exact words)..?
well, not so fast, Philadelphia & Pittsburgh show it only takes one or two corrupt counties to turn PA for biden..
how..? count enough to learn how many phony votes you need, then run them in while counting is paused, and VIOLA! biden win..
classic election theft..