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OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#211 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:10 am

I want to know Team Trump's plan, should they have one.

The low IQ crybabies on YouTube claim the widespread voter fraud cannot even be proven by (un)certifying fraudulent mail-in ballots because Democrats have thrown out identifying information tying their manufactured ballots to votes for Bidet.

Sounds to me like Team Trump knows they can't prove the voter fraud, as do their low IQ crybaby base, which is why they've whittled down Trump's 10-D chess scheme into this sort of unsubstantiatable monstrous mess, as usual.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#212 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:16 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:35 am
well, not so fast, Philadelphia & Pittsburgh show it only takes one or two corrupt counties to turn PA for biden..
how..? count enough to learn how many phony votes you need, then run them in while counting is paused, and VIOLA! biden win..
Don't forget Erie...that was a new one for this year.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#213 Post by dr_st » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:29 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:10 am
The low IQ crybabies on YouTube claim the widespread voter fraud cannot even be proven by (un)certifying fraudulent mail-in ballots because Democrats have thrown out identifying information tying their manufactured ballots to votes for Bidet.
I raised this point earlier in this thread.
dr_st wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:47 am
So, I have a technical question about this, since I am not sure I understand properly how things work with mail-in / absentee voting.

The idea as I see it is that there is a double envelope - the outside envelope with the voter's identification information, signature, etc. This is validated against the signature, the voter registration DB, etc, to ensure that the vote is valid. Once this is checked, the inner envelope is taken out, and added to the pile, separate from the voter's information (to ensure anonymity). I think it's called pre-canvassing?

Suppose that someone "flopped on the job" during the pre-canvassing stage, and didn't properly verify that the vote was valid. How can you possibly find that out during a later recount?
Seems that nobody knows? How can something so fundamental to election integrity not have a definite answer?

P.S. "votes for Bidet". I enjoyed this "Freudian slip". :lol:
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#214 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 am

dr_st wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:29 am

Seems that nobody knows? How can something so fundamental to election integrity not have a definite answer?
An excellent question indeed. I'm not going to pretend that I have an answer.

There's more to that picture.

Justice Alito ordered that the ballots received past 8pm on Election Day must be separated here in PA. That order was not followed through. At this point, there is no way of proving how many "late" ballots were included in the final count.

I'm not going to comment on what happened in GA, MI, WI since I've never set foot in any of those states and have no real idea how the process works there. Here, in our lovely Commonwealth the process was beyond tainted - starting with double ballots being mailed to thousands of voters in 18/19th district (Allegheny County) - and continuing with everything that we've seen since.

As for the courts, it's not what the truth is, it's what you can prove. If and when in doubt, ask O.J. Simpson.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#215 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:01 pm

dr_st wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:29 am
P.S. "votes for Bidet". I enjoyed this "Freudian slip". :lol:
:lol: As said I was going to vote for the other Jo until Don succeeded in pissing me off enough to actually join forces for once with the only movement standing a chance against him.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#216 Post by Ibthink » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:04 pm

The really funny thing to me is that the Democrats are supposed to have manipulated the election - but only the presidential election. All the other elections that took place that day, such as the state parliaments in Pennsylvania which went Republican again, are of course 100 % totally legit. :lol:
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#217 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:04 pm
The really funny thing to me is that the Democrats are supposed to have manipulated the election - but only the presidential election. All the other elections that took place that day, such as the state parliaments in Pennsylvania which went Republican again, are of course 100 % totally legit. :lol:
The real funny thing is when someone who has most likely never set foot in PA and has zero idea about decades of voter fraud - including politicians going to jail not that long ago - decides to comment on it.

There are numerous sworn affidavits - you DO understand that these mandate conviction for perjury if proven untrue - detailing how thousands of ballots were dropped which only had the Biden's name on them.

Do us all a favour and stick to lecturing us on German elections if and when the need arises, I will listen closely to what you have to say about those.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#218 Post by Ibthink » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm

I don't see you complaining about people from other countries commenting here and I don't see a reason why I should stay quiet, even if its annoying to you.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 am
Justice Alito ordered that the ballots received past 8pm on Election Day must be separated here in PA. That order was not followed through. At this point, there is no way of proving how many "late" ballots were included in the final count.
A decision which doesn't matter, since the ballots in question were too few to make a difference. Just like all the other Republican efforts in court fell apart, so did this one as well.

Also, the order was followed through. In fact, most counties were separating those votes even before it was ordered, because it was known beforehand that Republicans would try to put those votes in the bin. A directive to separate them was created on October 28 2020 by the Secretary of State in Pennsylvania.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pm
has zero idea about decades of voter fraud - including politicians going to jail not that long ago
Which doesn't prove anything for a current election. Germany also has a history of being a Nazi state, but we aren't currently one, thank god.

In fact: Pennsylvania having a history of such things and a politician having to go to jail can also mean that its elections now are safer than elsewhere, because they are watched more closely.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pm
There are numerous sworn affidavits - you DO understand that these being conviction for perjury if proven untrue - detailing how thousands of ballots were dropped which only had the Biden's name on them.
Like this one? https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... story.html Wonder why he took back his allegations so quickly - probably because he wanted to avoid a conviction for perjury?

@ontopic,
Arizona just certified the election results: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... over-trump
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#219 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:35 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
I don't see you complaining about people from other countries commenting here and I don't see a reason why I should stay quiet, even if its annoying to you.
You were singled out only because you specifically wrote about PA.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 am
A decision which doesn't matter, since the ballots in question were too few to make a difference. Just like all the other Republican efforts in court fell apart, so did this one as well.

Also, the order was followed through. In fact, most counties were separating those votes even before it was ordered, because it was known beforehand that Republicans would try to put those votes in the bin. A directive to separate them was created on October 28 2020 by the Secretary of State in Pennsylvania.
Too few they were not and Alito's orders were not followed either. You don't seem to realize that mail-in ballots can't be counted before Election Day in PA.
In fact: Pennsylvania having a history of such things and a politician having to go to jail can also mean that its elections now are safer than elsewhere, because they are watched more closely.
Right. That's why no one was arrested - let alone went to jail - for well-documented cases of Caucasian vote suppression in Philly in 2008.
Like this one? https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... story.html Wonder why he took back his allegations so quickly - probably because he wanted to avoid a conviction for perjury?
More likely because of death threats and other intimidation tactics that have been used to silence witnesses all over the Commonwealth. Once again, you have absolutely zero idea about what's going on here.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#220 Post by cadillacmike68 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:04 pm
The really funny thing to me is that the Democrats are supposed to have manipulated the election - but only the presidential election. All the other elections that took place that day, such as the state parliaments in Pennsylvania which went Republican again, are of course 100 % totally legit. :lol:


That would have required too much EFFORT. I'm sure that all the fraudulent ballots had ONLY presidential votes on them. In fact this has already been mentioned elsewhere, and it is a SURE SIGN or fraud.

They are Legislatures, not parliaments. Maybe you should stick to your own national politics.

And brush up on your chinese and russian! You're going to need it.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#221 Post by BillMorrow » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:33 am

Ibthink wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:52 pm
I don't see you complaining about people from other countries commenting here and I don't see a reason why I should stay quiet, even if its annoying to you.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 am
Justice Alito ordered that the ballots received past 8pm on Election Day must be separated here in PA. That order was not followed through. At this point, there is no way of proving how many "late" ballots were included in the final count.
A decision which doesn't matter, since the ballots in question were too few to make a difference. Just like all the other Republican efforts in court fell apart, so did this one as well.

Also, the order was followed through. In fact, most counties were separating those votes even before it was ordered, because it was known beforehand that Republicans would try to put those votes in the bin. A directive to separate them was created on October 28 2020 by the Secretary of State in Pennsylvania.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pm
has zero idea about decades of voter fraud - including politicians going to jail not that long ago
Which doesn't prove anything for a current election. Germany also has a history of being a Nazi state, but we aren't currently one, thank god.

In fact: Pennsylvania having a history of such things and a politician having to go to jail can also mean that its elections now are safer than elsewhere, because they are watched more closely.
ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:20 pm
There are numerous sworn affidavits - you DO understand that these being conviction for perjury if proven untrue - detailing how thousands of ballots were dropped which only had the Biden's name on them.
Like this one? https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... story.html Wonder why he took back his allegations so quickly - probably because he wanted to avoid a conviction for perjury?

@ontopic,
Arizona just certified the election results: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... over-trump
eeeeekk, :cry: too much to edit so may i please just reply..

NAZI Germany ended, more or less, depending the success or not of the de-nazification efforts after 1945 in 1945..
the PA vote rigging goes on today as can be seen by the efforts to prevent the republican vote count observers from observing..
to the point of erecting covers on the windows behind which were the repub observers..

i think hopkins, the postal worker mentioned above in a wapo article recanted his recantation..

a question was posed asking the diff between mail in ballots and absentee ballots..
mail in ballots were mailed out in the millions to any and all voters, living, dead, moved, newly married, etc..
with dozens to many addresses..
when received back, at least here in GA, the signature thereon was not compared to the original voter registration signature but only to the signature on the outside of the envelope.. thus anyone could vote with no way to tell if it was the correct voter..
in PA the outside envelopes

absentee ballots are requested by each voter with i.d. being required before one can be sent out..

IMO there is a strong case for vote rigging in the key counties.. i expect all this to be in court filings..

i hope trump is successful and biden goes on to be investigated for his collusion with china, russia, ukraine and others not yet known..
who among you have seen the hunter laptop story..? how does a senator get rich enough to own, at one time, a dupont estate in delaware..? not to mention the 24% interest people pay on their CC balances when most states limit interest to 18%.. thanks to bidens work for delaware based CC corporations..
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#222 Post by mpcook » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:05 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:33 am
eeeeekk, :cry: too much to edit so may i please just reply..
.
.
.
when received back, at least here in GA, the signature thereon was not compared to the original voter registration signature but only to the signature on the outside of the envelope.. thus anyone could vote with no way to tell if it was the correct voter..
in PA the outside envelopes
Yes, too much fake news to address/edit...just one to quote the facts:
"Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, said that not only is it entirely possible to match signatures, but that the state requires it.

When a voter requests an absentee ballot on a paper application, he or she must sign it. Election officials compare that signature to the signature in voter registration files before a ballot is sent to the voter, Raffensperger said.

When those ballots are returned, the required signature on the outer envelope is compared to signatures in the voter registration system.

This process was spelled out in detail in the consent decree, a legal settlement that was signed March 6." This consent decree was between the state and Democratic organizations to help ensure all valid votes are counted, and invalid votes are not counted. I repeat myself.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#223 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:24 am

@mpcook
Did you notice that you quoted the part of Bill's reply that talked about mail-in ballots, but your own quote was actually about absentee ballots?
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#224 Post by mpcook » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:44 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:24 am
@mpcook
Did you notice that you quoted the part of Bill's reply that talked about mail-in ballots, but your own quote was actually about absentee ballots?
Thanks dr_st -- Two points on this.
1 - Bill was referring to Georgia, where the mail-in ballots are all requested by the potential voter. The two terms appear to be used interchangeably in GA (I have seen it referred to either way), and you don't have to claim "absentee" to request a ballot to mail back.
2 - Overall, the terms "mail-in" and "absentee" are somewhat arbitrary and vary by state. I voted in Ohio this year, and had to request my mail-in ballot with a paper application, similar to how it was done in GA. I was not "absentee". As in some other states, it is not an "absentee" ballot because I don't have to claim to be "absent" to request one. I have done this for quite a few years in Ohio. Only in a couple of those years was I actually "absent" spending the month in Switzerland. So the distinctions among "absentee" and "mail-in" and also "vote-by-mail" are somewhat specious. Now, that might not be the case in some other states.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#225 Post by mpcook » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:03 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:33 am
.
.
.
how does a senator get rich enough to own, at one time, a dupont estate in delaware..?
Just one more about the fake news...
"Joe Biden sold this property back in 1996, so he hasn’t lived in this home in 24 years—and, although the Greenville, Delaware mansion looks grand, it didn’t look exactly like that when Biden purchased it. Thanks to two decades worth of restoration work, Biden transformed this once-abandoned mansion (for which he paid just $185,000 back in 1974) into a sprawling property that he went on to sell for $1.2 million in 1996. That means Biden sold the home for just over $1 million more than the price he originally paid for it."

here's some interesting facts, if you care to look https://www.realtor.com/news/celebrity- ... al-estate/

And, let's not go back and rehash the computer repairman who said in an interview that he is legally blind and could not be sure whether the man was Hunter Biden but asked his name to fill out a work order, and the man then identified himself as Hunter Biden. He said the man came to his shop twice but never returned to retrieve the computer or an external hard drive on which its contents had been stored. And so on. Still waiting for Trump's DOJ to indite someone.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#226 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:10 am

@mpcook
Thanks for the clarifications. I feel that the large variance of definitions and processes between the states is, perhaps, the biggest factor that makes it hard to get to the bottom of all the claims, and separate fact from fiction, especially for foreigners.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#227 Post by mpcook » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:19 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:10 am
@mpcook
Thanks for the clarifications. I feel that the large variance of definitions and processes between the states is, perhaps, the biggest factor that makes it hard to get to the bottom of all the claims, and separate fact from fiction, especially for foreigners.
Actually, IMHO one of the great strengths of the voting system in the US is that each state handles it on their own. Although yes, it makes it harder to separate fact from fiction, apparently for even US citizens, because there's a whole lot of fiction tweeting around in the US lately. :lol:

But if you examine what was said by the head of Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security for the 2020 election, most of us think we are on solid ground and our current president will hit the road on Jan 20. https://www.yahoo.com/now/ex-u-cybersec ... 00055.html He has every right to run again in 2024. I hope he does.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#228 Post by dsvochak » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:30 pm

In one of the latest lawsuits frivolously (and falsely) alleging fraud in the election one of the declarations (which appears to be an affidavit) asserts the declarant witnessed something fishy in “Edison County in Michigan.” There is no “Edison County” in Michigan, or apparently anywhere else in the USA.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 475368002/

Things like this go a long way toward explaining why these suits haven’t gained any traction in the courts.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#229 Post by mpcook » Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:35 pm

dsvochak wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:30 pm
In one of the latest lawsuits frivolously (and falsely) alleging fraud in the election one of the declarations (which appears to be an affidavit) asserts the declarant witnessed something fishy in “Edison County in Michigan.” There is no “Edison County” in Michigan, or apparently anywhere else in the USA.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 475368002/

Things like this go a long way toward explaining why these suits haven’t gained any traction in the courts.
There might be an Edison County in Venezuela.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#230 Post by rkawakami » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:04 pm

BillMorrow wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:41 pm
you remember jerry brown..? the brown dynasty in california..?
Not too much of it as I wasn't politically aware / active then. But I do remember the Governor Moonbeam moniker....
BillMorrow wrote: well, i went to west portal school with jerry and we were, sort of, friends there.. in about 1943 MOL.. SORT OF.. until his father learned of it.. then jerry was gone.. <snip>
So sorry to hear of your experiences there. I can't recall any discrimination during my school days; at least nothing that has stayed with me to this day. Maybe because I wasn't the only one of Japanese descent around. And there were plenty of other non-Anglo representations growing up. I do know that when my wife (then girlfriend) and I went out for dates / dinner / social gatherings, a couple of times I seemed to detect some stares in our direction but nothing overtly racist (she's Caucasian). This was in the 1980's.
BillMorrow wrote: forget not the virologist who says this was developed, not something that jumped from animal to human..
This one: Li-Meng Yan? The short answer is that her claims were not scientifically vetted. They also were propagated by groups associated with Steve Bannon. It can be essentially thought of as a blog statement and we all know how much validity you can assign to those. Again, it comes down to who you believe is telling you the facts; scientists (CDC, WHO, virologists) or Fox News.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/li-me ... id-19-lab/
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... racy-theo/
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... check-cvd/ (Cached version since NatGeo requests email to read article)
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#231 Post by pianowizard » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:09 pm

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#232 Post by cadillacmike68 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:32 am

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#233 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:25 am

Do you really want these crooked Republican barrbarians in power?
Snopes FactCheck wrote:The Trump administration executed more people in five months than the federal government executed during the previous five decades.
....
U.S. Attorney General William Barr has scheduled five more people to die during the lame duck session, or the months between the election and the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden.
....
As president, Trump has explored giving drug dealers death penalties. He also initiated, in November 2020, a federal rule change allowing for outdated, more brutal methods of execution for federal prisoners, which could include firing squads, electrocutions, and hangings, depending on the state in which the sentencing occurred.
You can read here all about these facts, not fictions!

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#234 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:26 am



I'm glad at least someone in gov is capable of comprehending and communicating basic fact. :roll: The allegations, of course, go nowhere if no proof is produced, as they have gone nowhere and will continue to go nowhere. Love 'em or hate 'em, this is how courts work! :roll:
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#235 Post by imsoenthused » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:59 am

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:32 am


Prefaced with "TO DATE".
If anyone seriously thinks that with the bounties that have been offered for evidence and the investigations that have been performed that they wouldn't have presented some kind of evidence to keep all their assorted court cases from being thrown out at this point, then I have a perfectly splendid bridge in New York that they might be interested in buying. It's time to face facts, the vast majority of Trump supporters, the ones who aren't actually white nationalists, got suckered by a lying conman. It's time for them to stop giving that toxic clown power over themselves by listening to his unproven and unverifiable claims about election fraud. He can't give any evidence that holds up in court because there isn't any. This is just getting sad.

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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#236 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:27 am

cadillacmike68 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:32 am


Prefaced with "TO DATE".
Don't count on Barr finding anything, it's not going to happen because he's not looking.

I've said from day one that he was a horrible choice, being a Bushie swamp creature and he has most certainly proven that over and over again.

Which brings us to the bigger story about Trump's cabinet/personnel picks in general, but that topic deserves a thread of its own IMO.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#237 Post by mpcook » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:11 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:27 am
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:32 am


Prefaced with "TO DATE".
Don't count on Barr finding anything, it's not going to happen because he's not looking.
.
.
.
Not only Barr, but Dept Homeland Security, FBI, USPS Inspection Service, all of our state and local governments, and even Trump's legal team must not be looking, because no one has been able to produce evidence in a court of law.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#238 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:58 pm

mpcook wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:11 pm
because no one has been able to produce evidence in a court of law.
I'm going to presume that you've never been on the receiving end of proving a crime against yourself in the court.

I was there 15 years ago and truly hope that you never experience what I did.

Witnesses that suddenly withdraw statements, all of them.

State Police that just shrugs their shoulders.

And me with a ~$200K hole in my pocket, knowing who the culprits were and not being able to do anything about it without breaking the law myself.

So yes, I do believe that the legal system in this country is irretrievably broken based on what I've witnessed over the last couple of decades that I've been residing in the U.S.

To me personally, this thread was never about Trump. I've got a laundry list of grievances against him and his policies but I also don't kick people when they're down.

I'm not going to comment on what did or did not happen elsewhere, but here in PA the fraud was rampant. Can it be proven in court ? Probably not.

That doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#239 Post by dr_st » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:55 pm

One thing that's very clear to someone who followed even a couple of criminal investigations in their lifetime - is that the investigative forces (be it the police, the FBI, or whatever equivalent you have in whatever country) and the prosecution have all the power and all the cards. They decide what/who to investigate, how and to what extent.

If they want to find dirt on you - they will, or they will fabricate something up, and throw all their weight behind it, with the expectations to bully you into submission even before the case reaches the court. If, on the other hand, they don't want to dig into something, they simply won't, and there is nothing anyone can do to force them. These systems are just too big, powerful and bureaucratic. They will simply wear you down.

I've seen plenty examples of both in my own country, and see no reason that it would be any different anywhere else. Has this been happening in Trump's cases? No idea. I can believe that in some of the counties that are most hostile to him, the local police forces will not be very eager to help his investigations, but I have no reason to suspect the FBI or the DOJ to be particularly anti-Trump. I simply don't have sufficient familiarity with the US federal system and the key players.
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Re: OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

#240 Post by dsvochak » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:06 pm

George-

If you have personal knowledge of fraud in the election in PA, you should contact the President’s attorneys. I’m sure they would be overjoyed to hear from you.

If you don’t have personal knowledge, then what you have is a belief based on hearsay or hearsay on hearsay. Hearsay may prove that someone said something to you. It doesn’t prove that what they said was true.

This appears to be one of the problems with Trump’s election lawsuits.

PS: not being able to prove something occurred may not prove it didn’t happen but it sure does it make it more likely it didn’t.
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