OK, now we descend into the STOLEN election

[BillMorrow]

i suspect there will be a lot of crap thrown at me by my democrat admins and forum members but this is real..
*****
SO, i have a pod cast from a lawyer at the Pittsburgh vote counting place.. he tells you how the dems cheatm are cheating.. here is the link.. it is ok, no ads..

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/11/06/ ... KVjlSdiJ9

if this man, and others who witnessed the dem cheating, can not get the federal courts to force a fair count, then the legislature should give the entire PA election to trump..
same for nevada, arizona, georgia's democrat controlled counties, etc..
the cheating is BLATANT..

[exTPfan]

Actually Bill, most of us live in the real world, and so don't really care about this stuff.

In the real world, Biden won with at least 279 electoral votes, and probably 306, and he won the popular vote by about 7,000,000. End of story. Bye Bye.

[Ibthink]

This whole thing reminds me of this good old Simpsons clip.

[ajkula66]

the cheating is BLATANT..

That's PA for you. Reports of election fraud are all over the map, from Erie to Pittsburgh to Philly...

I can't and won't speak of other states but 1001% stand by what I wrote on this forum a few days ago regarding the only path for Biden's win in PA being fraud.

[dr_st]

This whole thing reminds me of this good old Simpsons clip.

Let me start by repeating what I've said before (maybe not on this forum) - that I personally believe Trump's chances of overturning the election results in court are very very slim. Even disregarding the actual question of what can and cannot be proven - I am not certain that there actually was a fraud on the scale that change the identity of the winner.

But I am curious, since you obviously consider this evidence to be conjecture and hearsay - what would you, personally, consider to be actual evidence?

The saying that "when there is a doubt, there is no doubt" applies to a variety of legal topics, where there is no need to prove there was an actual violation - it is enough to show that due process was not followed to discredit the result. As far as I know, this principle does apply to elections, in most jurisdictions.

I don't know if this man told the truth, but I've certainly heard multiple sources to the claim that "poll-watchers were not allowed to watch" in various locations, in PA specifically. The same poll-watchers, which, as I recall, you mentioned in the other topic, as the tools by which election integrity is ensured.

If, hypothetically speaking, someone could provide acceptable proof, that certain watchers, with the certified mandate to oversee the counting were denied this at a particular location, this would be grounds for invalidating all votes counted at that location.

But, that's theory. Practice is another matter.

[rkawakami]

The Daily Signal is owned / was created by the Heritage Foundation whose mission statement is (bolding is mine):

The mission of The Heritage Foundation is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

When non-partisan / non-profit news organizations start publishing articles about how the election was "stolen" and offers proof (written, traceable documentation; multiple, neutral party eyewitnesses), and when MSM picks up the story and confirms it's a thing, then I'll consider believing something like this. Is this a liberal biased view? Yes. You can believe in your conservative media propaganda and I can believe in mine. While it's at the level of a freebie Republican lawyer saying that there were some shady things going on, nah...

As to Democrats cheating... (and I can't believe I'm about to fall into a what-aboutisms) What about the cheating (and the lying that came from McConnell) that occurred when Republicans blocked the Merrick Garland nomination? Mitch said that there shouldn't be any SCOTUS considerations during an election year, about nine months before the 2016 election, then completely reversed himself for the 2020 presidential election. What about all the changes that were made to USPS operations by DeJoy in the months prior to the election? It was an attempt, a quite visible and amateurish one I might add, at slowing down delivery of the US Mail when it was known that some states were allowing mail-in ballots due to COVID. It's quite well known that Dems use mail voting more than Republicans. Trying to disenfranchise voters by removing mailboxes and high-speed sorting machines to keep ballots from being postmarked/delivered on time sounds like cheating to me.

I guess the best reason why I don't believe in any of this voter fraud business is because the vote counts are so close in the battleground states like PA, GA and AZ. If either side were truly cheating by altering vote counts, don't you think that the differential would be greater? Why take a chance at a guaranteed recount if you had the opportunity and means to change the results? Did some fraud take place? Undoubtedly, but only at the several dozens level. Nothing that would alter the statewide results and by extension, the national results.

[BillMorrow]

Actually Bill, most of us live in the real world, and so don't really care about this stuff.

you BEST care about "this stuff".. want to pay $10/gallon for gas and $15 for diesel..? and have your electric rates double..? and watch illegal alien persons crossing the southern border in the tens of thousands and ALL of them wanting and getting free health care..? or medicare for all..? the dems tax for control, nothing more..

no matter who you are it will matter to you.. if not immediately in a year once "they" crank up their regulation machine..

i was skeptical about trump until i watched what he did.. you can't ignore a mid east peace deal that might actually work long term.. nor the lowest unemployment EVER for black and hispanic workers.. or 4 peace prize nominations..!

then the dems run the most flawed candidate and vp candidate EVER.. his son, hunter, the "bag man" for the whole biden clan living off graft and corruption..
all while the news ignores it, and attacks trump 24/7 for 4 + years..

/end rant/

[cadillacmike68]

You won't get any crap from me Bill. I'm with you.

[ajkula66]

When non-partisan / non-profit news organizations start publishing articles about how the election was "stolen"

There's no such thing as "non-partisan" news organization in this country.

[rkawakami]

There's no such thing as "non-partisan" news organization in this country.

NPR comes close. They have been accused of having both liberal and conservative bias before. If a news organization is blamed by both sides of having some slant against them, then I then to believe that they are telling the truth.

As a side note: I'm encouraged that FOX News has been sliding away from the nonsense that comes out of the WH. Is it because they see the end coming and are abandoning the ship? Maybe. But I still blame them for promoting the current administration's beliefs and actions. However, other conservative news outlets are picking up the mantle of Trumpism.

[cadillacmike68]

What about the cheating (and the lying that came from McConnell) that occurred when Republicans blocked the Merrick Garland nomination? Mitch said that there shouldn't be any SCOTUS considerations during an election year, about nine months before the 2016 election, then completely reversed himself for the 2020 presidential election.

I guess the best reason why I don't believe in any of this voter fraud business is because the vote counts are so close in the battleground states like PA, GA and AZ. If either side were truly cheating by altering vote counts, don't you think that the differential would be greater? Why take a chance at a guaranteed recount if you had the opportunity and means to change the results? Did some fraud take place? Undoubtedly, but only at the several dozens level. Nothing that would alter the statewide results and by extension, the national results.

Mitch neither cheated nor lied. He only applied the rules that were set by former sen ldr reid some years earlier. As to the 2020 SCOTUS nomination, nearly 30 past presidents made nominations in in an election year.

As far as fraud goes, They only need to do it in the largest cities where they can much more easily "stuff the ballot boxes" illegally.

I would like to see a manual recount in NV and see how many ballots were marked with sharpies vs pen for dems vs reps.....

And don't count on biden being in office for long I've mentioned this earlier. Even pelosi is maneuvering to get him out rapidly...

NPR started "liberalizing" itself back in the clinton era. They are now as far left as Fox news is to the right.

[BillMorrow]

The Daily Signal is owned / was created by the Heritage Foundation whose mission statement is (bolding is mine):

The mission of The Heritage Foundation is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

When non-partisan / non-profit news organizations start publishing articles about how the election was "stolen" and offers proof (written, traceable documentation; multiple, neutral party eyewitnesses), and when MSM picks up the story and confirms it's a thing, then I'll consider believing something like this. Is this a liberal biased view? Yes. You can believe in your conservative media propaganda and I can believe in mine. While it's at the level of a freebie Republican lawyer saying that there were some shady things going on, nah...

As to Democrats cheating... (and I can't believe I'm about to fall into a what-aboutisms) What about the cheating (and the lying that came from McConnell) that occurred when Republicans blocked the Merrick Garland nomination? Mitch said that there shouldn't be any SCOTUS considerations during an election year, about nine months before the 2016 election, then completely reversed himself for the 2020 presidential election. What about all the changes that were made to USPS operations by DeJoy in the months prior to the election? It was an attempt, a quite visible and amateurish one I might add, at slowing down delivery of the US Mail when it was known that some states were allowing mail-in ballots due to COVID. It's quite well known that Dems use mail voting more than Republicans. Trying to disenfranchise voters by removing mailboxes and high-speed sorting machines to keep ballots from being postmarked/delivered on time sounds like cheating to me.

I guess the best reason why I don't believe in any of this voter fraud business is because the vote counts are so close in the battleground states like PA, GA and AZ. If either side were truly cheating by altering vote counts, don't you think that the differential would be greater? Why take a chance at a guaranteed recount if you had the opportunity and means to change the results? Did some fraud take place? Undoubtedly, but only at the several dozens level. Nothing that would alter the statewide results and by extension, the national results.

replying to some of ray's remarks..

IRT merrik garland nomination for SCOTUS..
it came when the dems had the WH and house and no such nomination was ever successful in the past.. no republican senate would have confirmed garland..
so where is the lie..?
obama tried by nominating a soft leftist unlike Sotomayor & Kagan who are firmly on the radical left since he knew no eftist would get through a repub senate, much like the iran giveaway/deal was not a treaty because it was so flawed no senate would confirm that as a treaty..

IRT close vote counts: how can you know WHAT the real vote count IS with all the refusal to allow monitors in to, well, monitor.. aside from the millions of ballots mailed out to anyone and everyone..

ray, i have a LOT of trust and respect for you or you would not still be an admin here and i know you're a dem but even you should be able to see the facts..
in states run by republicans trump won by an average of what %..? way higher than needed.. some states by 65% MOL.. as for georgia, there are the democrat counties or county that are going to have a recount and, i suspect, the ballots will be scrutinized more closely..

ok, on to the USPS & dejoy issue.. the mailbox removal was, i understand, in place long before the china virus came to town..
please remember: Rahm Emanuel "Never Let A Good Crisis Go To Waste" and this virus is one great crisis for the dem party faced with the trump economy BEFORE china sent their infected citizens all over the world and especially to italy..

EDIT: i should add here that trump was a suprise outsider who actually got in, a businessman who had to get things done to be successful and obviously was clean in his dealings otherwise the mueller fiasco would have found SOMETHING and they did not find ANYTHING.. so in comes trump to drain the DC swamp (something i have a tiny bit of knowledge about) and end the gravy train of corruption (i merely point to biden, aka china joe) and the swamp is fighting back.. the never trump republicans and so called conservatives who made $$ from the swamp and this includes the corrupt dems and others.. all becoming millionaires on a government salary..

ok, ot i must go to other tasks..

[ajkula66]

There's no such thing as "non-partisan" news organization in this country.

NPR comes close. They have been accused of having both liberal and conservative bias before. If a news organization is blamed by both sides of having some slant against them, then I then to believe that they are telling the truth.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. NPR leans left. IMO.

As a side note: I'm encouraged that FOX News has been sliding away from the nonsense that comes out of the WH. Is it because they see the end coming and are abandoning the ship? Maybe. But I still blame them for promoting the current administration's beliefs and actions. However, other conservative news outlets are picking up the mantle of Trumpism.

For years now Fox has been getting rid of free-thinking people with their own viewpoint and replacing them with folks spewing groupthink. John Stossel was the first victim of this trend and Trish Reagan the last one so far. But there will be more. Tucker Carlson will be gone sooner than later IMO and he was about the last interesting individual left there.

[rkawakami]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. NPR leans left. IMO.

How about PBS? I don't watch them at all but my wife tunes in. I think they pick up some stories from some of the international media, BBC News comes to mind. And again, I think that the Beeb has been accused of having some political bias by both / many sides so it falls under my hypothesis that if everybody complains to you about being biased, you have to be telling some truth.

For years now Fox has been getting rid of free-thinking people with their own viewpoint and replacing them with folks spewing groupthink. John Stossel was the first victim of this trend and Trish Reagan the last one so far. But there will be more. Tucker Carlson will be gone sooner than later IMO and he was about the last interesting individual left there.

Interesting is not the word I would use to describe Tucker .

[ajkula66]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. NPR leans left. IMO.

How about PBS? I don't watch them at all but my wife tunes in. I think they pick up some stories from some of the international media, BBC News comes to mind. And again, I think that the Beeb has been accused of having some political bias by both / many sides so it falls under my hypothesis that if everybody complains to you about being biased, you have to be telling some truth.

Lighter left than NPR but still left. As for BBC, any pretense of neutrality on their part for me died 21 years ago when they were blatantly lying about stuff unrelated to this topic.

Interesting is not the word I would use to describe Tucker .

Suit yourself and describe him any way you like but he doesn't fit the neocon mould of Fox whatsoever.

[BillMorrow]

NPR comes close. They have been accused of having both liberal and conservative bias before. If a news organization is blamed by both sides of having some slant against them, then I then to believe that they are telling the truth.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. NPR leans left. IMO.

As a side note: I'm encouraged that FOX News has been sliding away from the nonsense that comes out of the WH. Is it because they see the end coming and are abandoning the ship? Maybe. But I still blame them for promoting the current administration's beliefs and actions. However, other conservative news outlets are picking up the mantle of Trumpism.

For years now Fox has been getting rid of free-thinking people with their own viewpoint and replacing them with folks spewing groupthink. John Stossel was the first victim of this trend and Trish Reagan the last one so far. But there will be more. Tucker Carlson will be gone sooner than later IMO and he was about the last interesting individual left there.

quoting it all 'cuz it is time for my daily bike ride but i think all conservatives are now migrating to newsmax.. so the still vocal conservatives now on and from fox will soon have contracts with newsmax as soon as their fox contracts end..

[dr_st]

How about PBS? I don't watch them at all but my wife tunes in. I think they pick up some stories from some of the international media, BBC News comes to mind. And again, I think that the Beeb has been accused of having some political bias by both / many sides so it falls under my hypothesis that if everybody complains to you about being biased, you have to be telling some truth.

Everybody tells some truth. Although not living in the US, my understanding is that in terms of mainstream media it is quite similar to what we have in Israel - i.e., the overwhelming majority of the mainstream media leans left. This has been developing in this manner for decades, and causes a dramatic shift in what someone used to getting his information from said media perceives as "balanced".

Even disregarding that, someone who is strongly leaning to one side might consider anyone who is even slightly less "extreme" to be "biased" towards the other side. I've seen such attitude many times in the comments sections of both right- and left- leaning outlets. So the hypothesis that if you are attacked by both parties, you are probably neutral is not always sound.

The best approach I can advocate is to assume that neutrality does not exist, and everyone has an agenda. Then try to understand what their agendas are, and allow yourself to be exposed to sources with radically different viewpoints. This gives one a slightly more complete view of the world.

[ajkula66]

The best approach I can advocate is to assume that neutrality does not exist, and everyone has an agenda. Then try to understand what their agendas are, and allow yourself to be exposed to sources with radically different viewpoints. This gives one a slightly more complete view of the world.

This approach is the one I accepted years ago. It's a more entertaining path as well. IMO, that is.

[BillMorrow]

just FWIW and with a strong recommendation i suggest everyone who can, tune in to that awful FOX news cable and watch, at 11:00, the rerun of todays Life, Liberty & Levin for a good discussion of matters relevant to this presidential (and all) election(s)..
i record that show every week so i can watch it at my leisure AND save the time (usually about at least 15 minutes) of the same commercial messages and just get the meat of the subject matter..
it is a good and educational <hour..

[bgx]

The communist Fox News (probably paid by Moscow) said that Biden won, and the leftist Rick Santorum said there is no indication of large scale fraud...
More and more conservative are getting offboard the trump reck train. Why arent u?

I dont get it. Trump told the world 2 months ago what is plan would be since he knew he could not win the election fairly:
He annonced you that there would bemassive fraud, because it is the only way for him to steal the election: pretend there is a fradu and he won.
He relies on non educated people (his electorate) to spread the BS. Are you non educated Bill?
HIs plan was here for a while:
Ask his electorate not to vote early, to vote on the day. While democrat do exactly the opposite.
This create an artifical look of fraud for the non educated ones, because the situation is then very different from usual.

What happened: state who count early vote first get very blue, and the Red came back (Florida, Ohio, Arizona, etc.).
State who count in day voting first get red first, and then blue come back (Wisconsin, PA, Georgia, Michigan, etc.).
Looks fishy compared to usual years, but 100% normal if you think about it.
And notice it goes BOTH WAYS. do you think the red shift is also a massive fraud by Republican officials in Florida?
That republican officials owning Georgia are letting democrats stuff the ballots?


Did Biden win more in Phyladelphia than Clinton? no. same percentage. Where is the massive fraud?
Wake up. You ve been coned. For 4 years. Welcome back to reality.

[unix_joe]

Do you know what would solve the allegations of voter fraud?

Requiring an ID to vote.

[ajkula66]

Do you know what would solve the allegations of voter fraud?

Requiring an ID to vote.

Amen.

[TonyJZX]

I dont think there's any way to cheat on a level that the numbers state...

its at 290/215?

75 mil vs 71 mil?

that difference is of a scale just too big to put it all on "cheating" or "russia"

but they said it was cheating last time and they won so whether they win or lose its cheating

[TonyJZX]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-BB1aLkeJ

There's lot of this.

WHo was in charge of the USPS? Who was in charge of dismantling sorting machines??? I wonder....

[Scrolls]

Who cares? Last time I checked this was a ThinkPad forum, not my grandpappies Facebook page.

[unixed]

Thinkpad forum, right section :
Off-Topic Stuff
Talk about "WhatEVER !"..

[bgx]

Do you know what would solve the allegations of voter fraud?

Requiring an ID to vote.

Amen.

For sure. I understand it depends on state: some requires it and others do not. Not sure why it is not the case of all of them.

Anyway, I read that the communist G W Bush also congratulated Biden and say the voting process was fair.

While i perfectly understand that you dont like a democrat to win, Trump want to be reelected only for his own sake, his own money, his own agenda, with a 6yo brain, who cant understand you may win in the long term if you agree on something which cost you today. You are certainly the last one of his preocupation. You can see all the republicans who were working in the administration and who voted for Biden, speaking out about it, and you should understand there is something very wrong with this administation which never happened before under no president, Rep or Dem.

[exTPfan]

Calls are pouring into the Trump hotline:

One person rang in to report that he had discovered an envelope marked, “INSIDE: 100,000 Trump ballots Pennsylvania. Very important do NOT lose!!!”

Another: “So I saw a man, he walked into this building,” he said, on a recording of his call to the hotline. “And he was wearing a – he had a black hat, a black mask, striped shirt and a red tie. And I believe there were hamburgers in his bag? And he was saying, ‘Robble, robble,’ as he was exiting the building, like a burglar. You know, I think he’s probably Antifa. Can I speak to Rudy Giuliani?”

[TonyJZX]

Who cares? Last time I checked this was a ThinkPad forum, not my grandpappies Facebook page.

I think the owner of this forum has the last say on that... even though I dont agree with him, its still ultimately his choice.

[axur-delmeria]

I chuckled a bit when Trump's statements like "last night I was leading" and "I was cheated" sounded very much like a certain Filipino politician who lost his vice-presidential bid, filed an electoral complaint, got recounts on 3 provinces where he alleged voting fraud had occurred, only to end up losing by an even greater margin.