Forum Newb with some perhaps stupid questions

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Domain · #1 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:42 pm

..please forgive me.

I'm thinking of getting a T43, primary for school work and browsing. Light gaming would be nice but is hardly essential.

My main concern is with the fan noise. I've checked the forums and have heard mixed responses. I plan to use this in a classroom environment, so it is imperative that the notebook be very quiet. (If it quietly spins up for a short time without a ton of noise - big deal. If I can throttle it down with and IBM management utility I'll be happy.) I currently have a Pavilion ze5300 notebook which has fans like a vacuum cleaner. Either way, how loud does it really get?

Battery life of the 6 cell and 9 cell, respectively. Worth it to get the 9 cell?

And perhaps the dumbest question: What's the difference between a T43 and a T43p? Please, no flaming.

Thanks in advance. The insight that I've read so far has been very helpful.

Trip · #2 Post by **Trip** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:19 pm

You'll get lots of different answers about the fan, but here's mine: the fan produces (what I consider) an extremely irritating buzzing noise, and it runs constantly. To my knowledge, there's nothing that can be done about the fan aside from Power Manager settings and undervolting, neither of which helped me. There is no way to directly control the fan from Windows.

That said, I don't think I'd call it particularly loud, but it's probably enough to annoy anybody sitting next to you in a quiet classroom. When it really gets going, though, it's very loud. Fortunately, that hasn't happened to me much.

The difference between the T43 and T43p is just the video card, I believe. T43p models have a FireGL card that outperforms the integrated and X300 video cards found in regular T43 laptops. Unless you do some 3D modelling, or want to play some more demanding games, you won't need it.

christopher_wolf · #3 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:38 pm

Well, if you ask me...Fan Noise is not a problem on the T43. I haven't heard any "buzzing" or anything similar and my fan stays off for almost one hour when I boot my system up from a cold start. This has been discussed quite a few times; so far, the power manager and NHC seem to do the most good. I haven't noticed anything I didn't like about my T43's Fan...Which leads me to believe that 90% of all the fan noise problems out there are originate from the user and not the Thinkpad. You can do all of that, plus some heavier-than-light gaming on it; not like a Custom Desktop rig...but it sure packs a punch. As for quietness in a Classroom? I haven't *ever* heard my fan in a classroom. Period...Sometimes, it may be audible in a Library, but that is only if I find the quietest corner I can on the quietest day of the week in the library. If you go mobile alot, you will find the 9-Cell Battery quite helpful, as did I. I rarely use anything else other than the 9-Cell Battery; I carry around the 6-Cell as a Spare. I used to have a ze5700, the T43 has Fans *NOWHERE NEAR* that Noise level.....Really, that noise level I save for dustbusters, it really annoyed the heck out of me. If you really want quiet, get an X40 that rarely turns its fan on, would that be reasonable? Given the performance increase over the T42, I think it is quite reasonable to have the fan stay on a bit longer, it may have more levels than the T42 Fan...but does a much better job of cooling the Thinkpad. In a classroom, as stated, it has barely gotten loud enough for me to hear...much less the person sitting next to me.

Domain · #4 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:41 pm

Sounds good, thanks to you both. I'll probably go with the T43 pretty soon. Though I can't say for sure when. There is that money thing going on, kinda have to save. Haha.

Just out of curiocity, Christopher, after the hour and the fans come on, do they eventually turn themselves off? Or do they keep winding for the duration?

christopher_wolf · #5 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:48 pm

They stay on at about Level 1 for half and hour to 45 minutes at max then they go to level 2 and stay there until I suspend/hibernate/shut down. Strange thing that happens, when I plug it in after it has been at level 2, it goes down to Level 1 and then, sometimes, shuts off...I haven't isolated as of yet why it actually does this as I have it setup to Max Performance when on AC, but it does seem to work everytime. Level 1 and Level 2 are pretty quiet from what I have heard while booting up and Level 1 is barely audible, Level 2 is more of a muffled "whooosh" that you have to put your ear against to differentiate from the Hard Drive spinning with a lot of disk Activity. I only get the Fans to go for the duration if I am plugged in to start with and after that "warm-up" period and run PyMol, MATLAB, Visual Fortran, Visual C++, 25 Firefox Tabs, and BOINC (SETI@Home and Folding@Home) at the same time.

I feel your pain with that HP....UGhhhhh

Trip · #6 Post by **Trip** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:50 pm

When my fan comes on (after about 5-10 minutes - you must tell me how you're going without an hour before it turns on, christopher_wolf) it stays on, and doesn't turn off until the computer goes off (or is put into standby/hibernation).

Of course, this may vary from notebook to notebook, like the fan problems apparently do.

christopher_wolf · #7 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:53 pm

Usually a light to medium load...and from a Cold Start; around 32 to 35 Degrees for the CPU when I first get a chance to check it...I have *everything* turned down; no undervolting and PowerPlay managing the ATI with my Wireless and Bluetooth on. I have also been able to do presentations like this as well and have had no problem.

Domain · #8 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:54 pm

Thanks - the HP ze5xxx notebooks were an engineering disaster with regards to the cooling. I finally got tired of it. That and 45 minute battery life.

What. The. Frig!

IBM HERE I COME! Good Lord.

christopher_wolf · #9 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:04 pm

Mine had the worst cooling problem I have ever encountered; you would expect with at least three significantly large fans it could have at least cooled off a 32MB ATI 7200 Radeon and the CPU...Nope, GPU would overheat to crash the system and discolor the plastic grilles on the fans. Combine this with the ability of not being able to boot two times in a row and you have pretty abysmal HP Laptop. That HP Laptop was my only really bad mistake (Windows actually saved it several times; and when Windows saves your Butt...that is a good indication that you are pretty bad) Plus, it had 3 year old BIOS drivers out of the box...I have never seen a worse example than what I got with my old HP Laptop. I have had many laptops over the years and can say that the Thinkpad and Powerbooks have proven to be the best time and time again.

Trip · #10 Post by **Trip** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:04 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Usually a light to medium load...and from a Cold Start; around 32 to 35 Degrees for the CPU when I first get a chance to check it...I have *everything* turned down; no undervolting and PowerPlay managing the ATI with my Wireless and Bluetooth on. I have also been able to do presentations like this as well and have had no problem.

Thanks.

Hmm, and yet I have my processor running at 0.700V (well, 0.716V right now - had a couple of lockups that might have been voltage related), and everything else set up like yours, and the fan still goes on right off.

And you said you only hear a 'whooshing' sound from the fan - you don't hear any mechanical noise?

christopher_wolf · #11 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:06 pm

None...I have to get really close to the fan to actually hear the rotor + bearings interaction noise. That noise isn't any louder over what I have heard of my Friend's T42 and X40 You can just barely high a high pitch constant noise that sounds like a needle gently touching a moving nylon strip if you get really close and stay there for a few minutes. Best way I can describe it.

Domain · #12 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:06 pm

Interesting thing about HP Tech support too. I was told to update the BIOS to aid in fan noise, which it did to a MINOR extent. I had to ask if the person was in the US or a foreign country, but they refused to answer. That's another indication of something.

christopher_wolf · #13 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:14 pm

I actually didn't even try the support, I already knew it was a goner; from the moment I saw it power up, and hang forever, on the BIOS loading screen...I knew it wouldn't last long...That is when I started saving for a T43 with what I could and that was a few years ago. I am really glad I have it now.

christopher_wolf · #14 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:15 pm

I actually didn't even try the support, I already knew it was a goner; from the moment I saw it power up, and hang forever, on the BIOS loading screen...I knew it wouldn't last long...That is when I started saving for a T43 with what I could and that was a few years ago. I am really glad I have it now.

Domain · #15 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:18 pm

How many fan levels are there?

christopher_wolf · #16 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:26 pm

I have heard around ~7 Levels during a hot bootup; I haven;t heard them for very long as the Fan spools down at the Windows XP Bootup Screen. There are similar "Levels" in the Power Manager. Welcome to the Thinkpad Forums

Domain · #17 Post by **Domain** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:39 pm

Haha, Level 7 Pavilion LIke?

Thank you for the welcome, as well!

christopher_wolf · #18 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:40 am

No....No, Never. The loudest it can, or could ever get with that Fan, pales in comparision to the multipurpose Hairdryer/Low-Performance/Paperweight Laptop that HP was; much like a Mouse breathing compared to a Human after an exercise regime consisting of scaling Mt. Everest with a letter opener and dental floss...the wheezing in also modeled extraordinarily with the HP's Fans.

davidspalding · #19 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:23 am

ROFLMAO....

Domain · #20 Post by **Domain** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:31 am

christopher_wolf wrote:No....No, Never. The loudest it can, or could ever get with that Fan, pales in comparision to the multipurpose Hairdryer/Low-Performance/Paperweight Laptop that HP was; much like a Mouse breathing compared to a Human after an exercise regime consisting of scaling Mt. Everest with a letter opener and dental floss...the wheezing in also modeled extraordinarily with the HP's Fans.

Haha, okay, thanks man. You win a prize for that post, though I don't know what.

Domain · #21 Post by **Domain** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:41 pm

Also: Earlier you mentioned that your settings were as low as they go - how low? I'm assuming you mean the CPU speed and all that. How much does it all slow down as you've configured it?

christopher_wolf · #22 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:52 pm

The range can go from 2.0GHz all the way down to 800MHz for the Sonoma, as for the ATI...it downclocks quite a bit, this saves alot of battery life although doesn't impact performance that much unless you are doing high-refresh rate intensive rendering. I have been able to run PyMol, MATLAB, and Visual FORTRAN/C/C++ along with Firefox and Winamp at the same time at these settings and haven't had much of a problem. This, though, reflects on a single fact...I added 512MB of RAM to up it to 1GB of Memory in Total. This is imporant on just about any system I have seen. I still have an SGI box that runs at 100MHz but can blow away most desktops when it comes to rendering and huge file jobs simply because it has more memory and can thus handle more quicker rather than having to swap it on disk. If you are getting it, you might want to think about getting the 512MB Basic Config, then upping it to 1GB later on. Remember, you can always upgrade the Memory, it is *far* more difficult to upgrade the CPU and impossible to upgrade the video card. I find that 1 GB is enough for what I use and then some. You can also look at the thread here talking about swap space. I haven't encountered any time difference in suspend since upping it to 1 GB from 512MB, but I haven't gone to the limit of 2GB so I can't say what that would do to the hibernate times though.

Domain · #23 Post by **Domain** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:48 pm

I'm planning on this setup:

Any one of the CPUs, they all seem fine for what I will need, will try to go 2.0 GHz budget providing.

-512 base, 1 gig budget providing (Right now I could live on 512 comfortably, though I will occasionally need to run InDesign CS2.)
-CD RW/DVD Rom
-64 meg Radeon
-14.1 screen (higher res)
-Cheap Wi-Fi.
-60 gig hd, probably 5400 RPM

I am curious how hot the machine would run with all components at full though. And the resultant fan noise..

christopher_wolf · #24 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:03 pm

Depends on the CPU you get if you are concerned about the heat...but it has never gotten really hot whenever I have used it on my Lap; I also use it on my lap for 2 hours at a time most days and haven't ever felt uncomfortable. That looks like a pretty good setup there. The fan noise is in response to temperature, if you keep the temperature down (and everything from the CPU to the WiFi cards make heat on all laptops) and the ambient temperature at room temperature or cooler. There should be no problems at all; even when I ran my T43 in an ultra-quiet meeting where the room temperature was slightly hotter than normal, I noticed little, if any, deviation in the Fan behavior.

Domain · #25 Post by **Domain** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:35 pm

But my point is, assuming I'm at full 2.0 GHz, full video, etc, is the fan at a troublesome level? I'm not even saying classroom, I'm saying at home doing work. Pavilion Level I was really ticking me off...

christopher_wolf · #26 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:12 pm

Short Answer:

No.

Longer Answer:

In addition, the good thing is that it doesn't waver around that much. It picks a low level and sticks with it.

Domain · #27 Post by **Domain** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:27 pm

Lenovo is ticking me off - I can't custom configure my machine as I wanted. I can't get the 1.73 with the high res screen, or with the ATI graphics. If I go to better overall units, I price myself out of it. Then, I go to managers picks. The 2.0 GHz machine is great, but still a tad pricy. I could pull it off, but man. I'm not rich. I'm a high school student. I'm lucky to swing what I can.

davidspalding · #28 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:52 pm

If a T43 is getting expensive for you (and I presume you're using a copy of TABOOK.PDF to find which models have what), maybe a T42 would bring your purchase price down. There isn't that much in a T43 that's indispensible. Some people around here are pretty adamant about T42s being "better" than T43s (a very subjective perspective, I think).

christopher_wolf · #29 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:05 am

But remember that a similar spec T43 is actuall less expensive than the same T42 with similar features in most cases....Do a Forum Search and you will find that out; sometimes, the difference can get as large as $300. It has to do with IBM/Lenovo wanting to get the latest model out to the consumers as quickly as possible.

Domain · #30 Post by **Domain** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:57 am

Interesting about the price difference. Fortunately, I'm not in a rush to buy, but I'll most likely cave into the extra price. If I absolutely have to - but if it's simply too much, the cash sits in the bank. I have no problem with that; you hear me Lenovo!

I believe Christopher_Wolf stated earlier that the T43 has better cooling than the T42, and that is definately a big factor for me.

Though I do wonder why this got moved into Off Topic...

Forum Newb with some perhaps stupid questions

Forum Newb with some perhaps stupid questions

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