Apple vs Intel redux

[SpaRood]

I bet the new laptops are quite usable and sturdy, perhaps the best there are. However, the screenshots do not look appealing to me, but no Thinkpad has ever looked appealing. It is still a black box. For nice design, Apple is the way to go, but I like the Thinkpads as well, because of its reliability, support and design for professional use.

[SpaRood]

I know many who will refuse to buy a Thinkpad, because of its design, and rather go with an Apple. The Thinkpad seems to be stuck in the past. And the "new" Thinkpads seem to be a continuation of this past. I have seen a lot of laptops next to each other, and the Thinkpad immediate caught my eye, not because of its beauty I have to say, not at all. It's the ugly duck among the swans. No flame or trolling intended.

[darrenf]

I know many who will refuse to buy a Thinkpad, because of its design, and rather go with an Apple.

Seriously? That's like deciding to buy a boat because the car you're considering isn't a convertible. The boat may have a bimini top, but it likely won't get you to the office on time.



-darren

[jongordo8]

Wow what a great analogy!

[amensi]

I know many who will refuse to buy a Thinkpad, because of its design, and rather go with an Apple.

Please tell those people who prefer to have a nice looking unit that is compatible with 20% of the software title out there, that is about 4 years behind in technology (dual core/centrino) and compatible with 2% of the nice hardware innovation of the last years, that we don't need them in the PC world (geek comment). Seriously, the only excuse any mac owner was ever able to tell me for not buying a pc is "There is no virus on a mac!!!" euh... Have you ever heard of a product called ANTI-VIRUS ? I hate mac and yes i had experience with the product and no i am not to cheap to buy one so i know what i am talking about!! If you think about it... Your mac will brake for sure (i used to be a tech for those) but something is certain, your black (maybe ugly) tank will resist almost any conditions.

[ZildjianKX]

I know many who will refuse to buy a Thinkpad, because of its design, and rather go with an Apple.

Please tell those people who prefer to have a nice looking unit that is compatible with 20% of the software title out there, that is about 4 years behind in technology (dual core/centrino) and compatible with 2% of the nice hardware innovation of the last years, that we don't need them in the PC world (geek comment). Seriously, the only excuse any mac owner was ever able to tell me for not buying a pc is "There is no virus on a mac!!!" euh... Have you ever heard of a product called ANTI-VIRUS ? I hate mac and yes i had experience with the product and no i am not to cheap to buy one so i know what i am talking about!! If you think about it... Your mac will brake for sure (i used to be a tech for those) but something is certain, your black (maybe ugly) tank will resist almost any conditions.

And your whole argument is about to become moot really shortly when the intel Powerbooks come out, maybe as early as next week. Being able to boot Windows kills the rest of your software arguments.

I love my T43 dearly, but I would love it a lot more if it ran OS X.

Note from Moderator: Both of you, take this argument elsewhere.

[ZildjianKX]

Please tell those people who prefer to have a nice looking unit that is compatible with 20% of the software title out there, that is about 4 years behind in technology (dual core/centrino) and compatible with 2% of the nice hardware innovation of the last years, that we don't need them in the PC world (geek comment). Seriously, the only excuse any mac owner was ever able to tell me for not buying a pc is "There is no virus on a mac!!!" euh... Have you ever heard of a product called ANTI-VIRUS ? I hate mac and yes i had experience with the product and no i am not to cheap to buy one so i know what i am talking about!! If you think about it... Your mac will brake for sure (i used to be a tech for those) but something is certain, your black (maybe ugly) tank will resist almost any conditions.

And your whole argument is about to become moot really shortly when the intel Powerbooks come out, maybe as early as next week. Being able to boot Windows kills the rest of your software arguments.

I love my T43 dearly, but I would love it a lot more if it ran OS X.

Note from Moderator: Both of you, take this argument elsewhere.

Note to moderator Thanks for flagging my post when he was the one to go off topic randomly about macs.

Anyways, the lack of a DVI port is really bums me out. I'll never get why it has taken so long for PC laptops to adopt the DVI port (I don't want to mention powerbooks again ).

[asiafish]

I know many who will refuse to buy a Thinkpad, because of its design, and rather go with an Apple.

Please tell those people who prefer to have a nice looking unit that is compatible with 20% of the software title out there, that is about 4 years behind in technology (dual core/centrino) and compatible with 2% of the nice hardware innovation of the last years, that we don't need them in the PC world (geek comment). Seriously, the only excuse any mac owner was ever able to tell me for not buying a pc is "There is no virus on a mac!!!" euh... Have you ever heard of a product called ANTI-VIRUS ? I hate mac and yes i had experience with the product and no i am not to cheap to buy one so i know what i am talking about!! If you think about it... Your mac will brake for sure (i used to be a tech for those) but something is certain, your black (maybe ugly) tank will resist almost any conditions.

What are you smoking? 2% of the hardware? I have a Mac and a PC, and everything I've ever bought for one always worked on the other with the single exception of the PC fax capability over network for my Brother all-in-one printer.

My PowerBook is a little bit slower than my ThinkPad, but not much, and has advantages and disadvantages in its design thathave nothing to do with style, just the fact that it was designed by different people with different design goals.

As for software, about the only areas in software where Mac users are at a disadvantage are games, which are far fewer and come out later (though we only to get the good ones) and the cheapo crapware that you either buy at the drug store or download for free with a bunch of spyware (also not a problem on the Mac) along for the ride.

Oh, one more thing. Anti-virus does not negate the threat, only reduces it, while adding annoyances of its own and negating much of any speed advantage a given PC might offer.

There are good and bad reasons for using both platforms, but if I was able to, I'd switch exclusively to Mac. Sadly I cannot at this point because of the place where I work (ancient NT4 domain and 1997 vintage calendar and billing software) and the lack of suitable hardware (nothing with more than 4 hours of battery life). Thats it. The day my office switches to newer software (or more likely when I start my own firm next year) and Apple introduces a small PowerBook that runs for 6+ hours, I will go exclusively Mac. I don't care about not being able to play Elf Bowling in December, I do care about being immune to all of the malware that is getting worse rahter than better.

Note from Moderator: Perhaps when you saw my earlier message about "both of you", you missed the implied "and the rest of you, too"?

[darrenf]

I am being mis-quoted. Just to clarify, that quote about foregoing a ThinkPad for an Apple wasn't mine. Mine was the sarcastic retort.

Rose, I agree - bottom-mounted vents would just about about close the door on the T60 for me. I really want the dual-core CPU and 256M VidRAM but if I can't use it on my lap then I might consider a full-fledged gaming laptop (or, more likely, keep the T42 and play older games).

I did notice that my T42 has indentions in that same locations as the "vents" in these pictures (center and back left), but I can't tell if they are vents or just depressions in the plastic. I've certainly never treated them as vents before.

Thanks for those pictures -- I kinda like the X60. Also, the T60 doesn't look as bad in some of those pics as it does in the first batch we saw. It may be the natural lighting or perhaps just the low resolution . Is there any way to see the full-res pics?

-darren

[amensi]

Please tell those people who prefer to have a nice looking unit that is compatible with 20% of the software title out there, that is about 4 years behind in technology (dual core/centrino) and compatible with 2% of the nice hardware innovation of the last years, that we don't need them in the PC world (geek comment). Seriously, the only excuse any mac owner was ever able to tell me for not buying a pc is "There is no virus on a mac!!!" euh... Have you ever heard of a product called ANTI-VIRUS ? I hate mac and yes i had experience with the product and no i am not to cheap to buy one so i know what i am talking about!! If you think about it... Your mac will brake for sure (i used to be a tech for those) but something is certain, your black (maybe ugly) tank will resist almost any conditions.

And your whole argument is about to become moot really shortly when the intel Powerbooks come out, maybe as early as next week. Being able to boot Windows kills the rest of your software arguments.

I love my T43 dearly, but I would love it a lot more if it ran OS X.

Note from Moderator: Both of you, take this argument elsewhere.

What's the point of buying a Mac if you wanna run Windows... It's like buying a white t-shirt with the intent of coloring it red!!! It's all rumored at this point your MacIntel stuff. It will likely happend on low-end machine but then again acording to appleinsider.com, all curent software for apple will not be compatible with the new generation intel equiped product. So your argument is based on speculation and on product that aren't even out yet so as far as i am concerned PC wins here.

[christopher_wolf]

Well, I don't think you can run Windows on an Apple Intel iBook when they come out at first; just like when you try to install OSX on an Intel system, it is regulated by the TPM Security Chip. Another "Gift" of "Trusted Computing."
There is little, if any, difference in quality between my Thinkpad and my Powerbook. If OSX runs on a Thinkpad, as has been done to some extent, great; if Windows runs on the Intel iBook, great. I can't see anything that warrants getting worked up over the looks of either and how they work. I doubt, though, that you will be unable to load Windows because Apple doesn't want to get into the Laptop market at large. Why? The profit margins in the laptop business are thinner than watered down beer...Apple has a very strong user base and a good reputation; then again, IBM/Lenovo is very similar to that and just as large. What about going up against Dell? That would be difficult from the get go. Do I care much how a Laptop looks? To some extent, yes...Is this enough for me to choose one of two high end laptops over the other? Of course not. As long as I get the job done, it matters little.

[AndyL]

I bet the new laptops are quite usable and sturdy, perhaps the best there are. However, the screenshots do not look appealing to me, but no Thinkpad has ever looked appealing. It is still a black box. For nice design, Apple is the way to go, but I like the Thinkpads as well, because of its reliability, support and design for professional use.

As an engineer (well an ex-engineer - I am a software engineer now, which I don't count as real engineering ) it really bugs me when people refer to styling as design. The Apples may have great styling, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are well designed. To me, good design in a laptop means robustness, reliability, ergonomics and functionality. All of which are present in spades in Thinkpads, and none of which are greatly affected by whether they decided to make it black, white or silver. Personally I will be quite happy if Lenovo continue IBM's tradition of concentrating on making products that work well, whilst letting Apple sell cool-looking machines to people who work in marketing

[christopher_wolf]

You are certainly a Hardcore Engineer; the comments about design and marketing certainy hint at that. Well said. I like the Powerbook because it does indeed perform well, it has areas which it excels in and is almost as mobile as my Thinkpad (I don't mind a Widescreen Form Factor/Footprint anyway).

/me is still laughing at the software engineer quote

You sound like some of my EECS friends.

[Michael1980]

Apple make the prettiest laptops out there (followed by Sony and Asus).
But ask any CEO what laptop they would like to pull out in front of a client, and I bet the vast majority will say a Thinkpad.

[christopher_wolf]

Sony and Asus...Pretty? Ummmm, the majority of the larger Sony laptops I have seen don't look great, yet the smaller ones look good; same goes for Asus. They have some really good lookers in there, but these are generally their highly-specialized models and they cost alot more; generally, I haven't seen a unified design across *all* of those models. The Powerbook and Thinkpad would hold the highest place for Good Looks in my book; followed by Toshiba and the rest of the places are up for grabs. I like the black, sleek lines of the Thinkpad; same goes for the Powerbook. I would, however, agree that a CEO would indeed want to put a Thinkpad in front of the Client.

After all, Business is IBM's Middle Name...Literally;)

[SpaRood]

Apple has launched the new Macbook Pro. It looks like the previous powerbooks. I think I'd rather go with a Thinkpad, as I have read that Powerbook owners complain their notebooks are less sturdy and start to wear out after a year. I believe a notebook should be a long term investment, so it should be very sturdy, especially for that price.

[Michael1980]

Apple has launched the new Macbook Pro. It looks like the previous powerbooks. I think I'd rather go with a Thinkpad, as I have read that Powerbook owners complain their notebooks are less sturdy and start to wear out after a year. I believe a notebook should be a long term investment, so it should be very sturdy, especially for that price.

As a previous owner I think I speak for every Apple laptop owner out there when I say that the current Al's are much more sturdy that the previous Titanium.

However they are not as sturdy as the Thinkpads, for they do tend to dent, which is normal for aluminium.
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For me, Apple used to have a very Thinkpad-like laptop , the Pismo. But since then they have dropped things such as the changeable dvd/battery/hdd bay which is a must for any business user.

Apple also fails to cater to the traveller by not releasing a 14" laptop, since the 15 is too big to travel with (some people find it okay though).

[SpaRood]

If I accidentally drop a Thinkpad, I think the machine will survive. However, I have seen horrific pictures of powerbooks that have fallen and got ugly dented case that is impossible to bend back. I also think that the support for the Thinkpad is better.