Any Car guys? Large PIC's

[killer]

That car looks just the job where you live, RBS. When we had a chalet in the Alps I used to drive an old Jeep Cherokee. It could go anywhere, regardless of weather or terrain. It would pass anything except a fuel station!
Is yours petrol or diesel?

[RealBlackStuff]

Naw, it's just petrol (they call it gas here). Diesel prices here are can be up to $1.- per gallon more than gas.
I get about 24MPG out of this 2.7 V6 with nearly 100.000 miles on the clock.
My previous gas-guzzler (Ford Explorer 5.0 V8) did an avg. 15MPG, too expensive with these rising prices.
For fuel prices see e.g. this: http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/

[killer]

$2.70 is the price per US gallon? I am going to need all my computing power to turn that into £ or € per litre as the US gallon is smaller then an Imperial gallon.

That said, it sounds really cheap compared to European prices. In the UK it is about £1.20 a litre for petrol and a few pence more for diesel. In France diesel is about €1.20 a litre and petrol is about €1.40 a litre.

Who's good at maths?

[ajkula66]

bgalakazam wrote:

I want to get a W123 diesel at some point, but hard to find low mileage one here.

And even if you end up finding one, it will likely come with a hefty price premium. Unlike Europe, diesel fuel is not subsidized by the government, so the price is pretty high, and mostly everyone who buys a diesel vehicle around here beats the living daylight out of it with mileage. Although the last W123s rolled off the assembly line a quarter of century ago, you could find Grandpa or Grandma somewhere in Germany or Belgium who bought it new and put 50,000 km on it over that period of time. Here, anything under 240,000 is low mileage for such a vehicle. And most of them are automatics which really does them no justice, at least in my opinion...

Good luck with your noble quest.

[RealBlackStuff]

MPG to KM/L converter: http://www.vangeyn.net/mpg/
24 MPG (US) converted to KM/L (L/100KM) is 10.2 KM/L (9.8 L/100KM)

[Norway Pad]

Although the last W123s rolled off the assembly line a quarter of century ago, you could find Grandpa or Grandma somewhere in Germany or Belgium who bought it new and put 50,000 km on it over that period of time. Here, anything under 240,000 is low mileage for such a vehicle. And most of them are automatics which really does them no justice, at least in my opinion...

Yes, the diesel engines in W123s, next some some older Volvo engines, must be the most durable engines ever made. In Norway these were used as taxi cars all the way up to the 90s, and some of them had an insane amount of miles on them. The highest number I ever think I saw was 850 000 km (530 000 miles). Unfortunately they rusted to pieces before you wore the engines out, so not many of them are left today. And before we got the blasting 300TD (Which was really the top-of-the-line diesel back in the days) they were not really fast, particularly not as an automatic, like George says. But ever lasting. So with no rust, and a engine that has had it's oil changed regularly, the mileage should really be no concern.

The later W124 used turbo charging and higher hp outputs in most models, which I think impacted the durability to some extent. But I have seen a couple of these the W124 with over 350 000 miles on them too.

[ajkula66]

Norway Pad wrote:

Yes, the diesel engines in W123s, next some some older Volvo engines, must be the most durable engines ever made.

Actually, the ones used in W115s were even better. I've seen them with 600,000+ miles and still running. The biggest problem with W123s is that they rusted through very quickly, unlike their older siblings...

There was an elderly gentleman from Slovenia who owned a W108 280s with 1,000,000 miles (yes, you read it correctly - 1,6 million km) without the engine ever being opened. Had all types of medals and cerificates from DB back in the days - over 20 years ago. Was offered pretty much next to anything and everything to give the car back to DB, but he refused...and yes, I have seen the car in person...immaculate, if unremarkable on the outside, run-of-the-mill-W108...I wonder what had happened with the man, as well as with the vehicle...

I've always had a soft spot for high-mileage cars. Some of my past vehicles included:

a) '69 W115 220 Benz, bought with 800,000 km (500,000 miles) from the original owner. Sold it to a taxi driver who threw in a diesel engine once the original one finally died. Probably scrapped by now...

b) '85 W126 380SE Benz, bought with 438,000 miles. Scrapped due to a lack of storage and failing trans when we were moving from NY to PA.

c) '62 Citroen ID 19, bought from the original owner with 230,000 miles. This car is still in use. Engines in these vehicles were next to impossible to destroy as long as they had oil and coolant.

I currently drive a '00 Explorer bought with 217,000 miles...

[j-dawg]

My dad's old 380SL bit the bullet at 300,000+ miles. It was in fantastic shape until he got it. Several years later, deferred maintenance reared its ugly head and the timing chain slipped off the cam sprocket, having been ignored despite thousands upon thousands of miles of startup clatter.

Had he been good about upkeep, I don't doubt that it would have gone to 400,000 and beyond. But he had taken it to a cheap body shop to get some damage repaired, and the Bondo began giving way to rust after a few years, so the car's lifespan was already limited. It had been entirely rust-free until that point, despite two decades of Chicago roads.

[Norway Pad]

Actually, the ones used in W115s were even better. I've seen them with 600,000+ miles and still running. The biggest problem with W123s is that they rusted through very quickly, unlike their older siblings...

c) '62 Citroen ID 19, bought from the original owner with 230,000 miles. This car is still in use. Engines in these vehicles were next to impossible to destroy as long as they had oil and coolant.

I currently drive a '00 Explorer bought with 217,000 miles...

He, he. Interesting. I have no experience with the older Mercedes cars, as they were not so common back home for some reason. Or maybe it was before my days. Anyway, I know some of them and also the bigger W126 had some amazing mileages clocked up, like you say. And I know stories about the random taxi W123s with 1 million km and more on the clock, even though I have never seen any myself. But I wasn't aware of the fact that the Citroen IDs had good engines.

Another story: Even though Opel is a low cost brand, they made some durable engines, the 20SE, for use in their 90s Omegas. Sadly, the car itself was sh**, and rusted and literally fell apart. But I got a hold of a trashed Omega with 200 000 miles on it, built the engine and the Motronic system into my old Ascona and used and abused it for another 5 years and probably another 100 000 miles. I finally sold the car off for parts, but the engine still ran fine. However, you beat me with mileage. My present BMW has "only" 180 000 miles on it. It runs fine, even though many engines from the M52 generation has failed due to their Nikasil issue.

[ajkula66]

Speaking of Opel Omega/Vauxhall Carlton/Cadillac Catera, I wouldn't mind owning one of these...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Carlton

[killer]

George, that Lotus Carlton would have been a perfect unmarked police car, except for the word Lotus which people have used as an acronym for 'Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious'.

Their unreliability tended to keep the police well away from purchasing. It is sad really because Colin Chapman was such a brilliant designer in his day.

[mediasponge]

The predecessor of the Lotus Carleton was the Lotus Cortina. These are quite popular in vintage racing in the US, UK, and elsewhere. They often run with full-race Lotus twincam motors producing around 180HP in a car that probably weighs half what the Carleton does. Whee!

[killer]

Lotus Cortinas are still used in vintage rallying events. I saw some at the Goodwood Festival of Speed during the summer. They are amazing. Thanks for the memory.

[Norway Pad]

George, that Lotus Carlton would have been a perfect unmarked police car, except for the word Lotus which people have used as an acronym for 'Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious'.

Their unreliability tended to keep the police well away from purchasing. It is sad really because Colin Chapman was such a brilliant designer in his day.

Ok, this will be my last post in this thread, I promise. You guys are getting tired of my car talk. Just had to comment on this one.

I was a part of a Opel Motorsport Club back in Norway, so me and a friend bought each our Omegas. He bought the Lotus Omega # 380, I bought an Omega Evo 500. The performance of his Lotus was breathtaking, and left my Evo in the dust. The days the Lotus worked, that was. So the above statement about the unreliability is NO joke. On top of it all, parts for both this cars were extremely expensive and mostly listed as NLS (No Longer Serviced) at the Opel dealer. After struggling for years and finally changing the entire GMP4 EMS system into an aftermarket programmable one, his Lotus now runs better. My Evo started rusting, as Irmscher unfortunately did a really bad job of rust protecting the arch extensions and the other modifications they did to the car. It got too expensive, so I sold it. But both were awesome lookers, and real head turners going down the street.

[RealBlackStuff]

I never took any photos of this, but back in the late '60s I had a Hillman Imp, in which I put the drivetrain and 425 cu. V8 engine of a (front wheel drive) Oldsmobile Toronado. Since the Imp had a rear engine with rear wheel drive, I had to take out the rear seats and cut up part of the chassis to accommodate this huge mother of an engine. To keep the front wheels on the road, I had to put 8 bags of cement in the (front) boot.
Now THAT was a dangerous and adventurous car, but it was great fun to drive!
It lasted all of 3 weeks before it tore the chassis to bits, that engine-concoction was way TOO much for this tiny car!
FYI: I started my working life as an automotive engineer, before I switched over to the (much cleaner) world of IBM.

[ajkula66]

Norway Pad wrote:

and real head turners going down the street.

In more ways than you'd imagine...Evos were used in several (politics-related) assassinations in my hometown back in the days...that was a car one most certainly did not want to see in a rear-view mirror...

Both Opel and Vauxhall (I'm less familiar with Holden but my understanding is that their cars were built on the same ideas as these two) had some stunning-looking yet affordable coupes in the late 60s and early 70s...Commodore GS/E and VX4/90 come to mind...

Yes, I've owned both, in several versions... ...the good old days...

[Norway Pad]

In more ways than you'd imagine...Evos were used in several (politics-related) assassinations in my hometown back in the days...that was a car one most certainly did not want to see in a rear-view mirror...

Really? I didn't know it was used for such purposes. Only 320 were ever made of the road going version. Some of them were actually given to celebrities within sports and politics in Germany, but I had no idea they were known for such things. I did a lot of research about this car in the days and even made a website about it and wrote some articles for the Opel Motorsport Club magazine in Norway.

The older Opels with 6 cylinder engines and rear wheel drive were my favorites when I was a kid. Cars like Commodore GTE Coupe and the Monza GSE. Unfortunately Opel stopped making rear wheel drive cars, so that's why I switched to BMW.

(Last post.. I know, I promised.. But next to computers, cars is my other big passion)

Interesting to hear about your project car, RBS. I bet it had some interesting handling capabilities. He, he.

[ajkula66]

Norway Pad wrote:

I did a lot of research about this car in the days and even made a website about it and wrote some articles for the Opel Motorsport Club magazine in Norway.

Well, yeah...I'm sure you did, but I can't see anyone related to Opel (or any other manufacturer for that fact) boasting that a totalitarian government's thugs proudly utilized their high-end vehicles in brutally silencing the system's opponents...

I've done my fair share of research on Citroen's DS/ID series (I'll get to writing a book about them if I last long enough) and have never found any mention of these vehicles being favoured by Securitate (Romanian secret political police under Ceausesku) but have been repeatedly told that by quite a few of my Romanian friends whose stories I have no reason to doubt whatsoever...

There are certain relationships one would be wise not to advertise, I guess...

[Norway Pad]

No, you are right about that. Even if I had known, it would probably not included it in my articles. But an interesting piece of information I wasn't aware of.

[killer]

I never took any photos of this, but back in the late '60s I had a Hillman Imp, in which I put the drivetrain and 425 cu. V8 engine of a (front wheel drive) Oldsmobile Toronado. Since the Imp had a rear engine with rear wheel drive, I had to take out the rear seats and cut up part of the chassis to accommodate this huge mother of an engine. To keep the front wheels on the road, I had to put 8 bags of cement in the (front) boot.
Now THAT was a dangerous and adventurous car, but it was great fun to drive!
It lasted all of 3 weeks before it tore the chassis to bits, that engine-concoction was way TOO much for this tiny car!
FYI: I started my working life as an automotive engineer, before I switched over to the (much cleaner) world of IBM.

Hillman Imps were fun cars. The standard engine was a detuned Coventry Climax so they could be made to go really fast with a bit of tweaking. It is hard to imagine a V8 in an Imp. 'Quart into a pint pot' is an expression that springs to mind.

[poshgeordie]

Thought I'd take an excursion onto another thread here instead of T4x's!!

Hillman Imps - I used to own a Clan Crusader which was made here in Washington, Co Durham, UK and had an 875cc Imp Sport engine. Used to go like stink even with the tiny engine due to the high power to weight ratio.

http://www.classic-kitcars.com/20/226/226picgallery.htm

And a great view of the engine bay, and yes those are Weber Twin 40 carbs!

http://www.classic-kitcars.com/20/600/600picgallery.htm

In 1985 my wife and I drove from the top of Africa, through the Sahara Desert, Zaire (now DR Congo) and onto Kenya and then down to Malawi in an ex Dutch Post Office VW Type II Transporter which had very few modifications other than an engine and gearbox guard.

We found it extremely robust - more so than 4WD landrovers! - and completely reliable too. This was not helped though when "on safari" in a Kenya Game reserve looking for Rhinos, and managed to run over a huge boulder which bent the front axle so badly that we could only steer to the left!

It was also in Kenya that we watched a stage of the Marlborough Safari rally that seemed to consist of big rocky steps that we could hardly walk up, never mind drive through at stupid speeds!

Enjoyed my little excursion here and may visit again...

[mediasponge]

My toy. Click on the pictures for a larger view. No, it's not streetable. I only get to drive it around 3 times a year, usually at Infineon Raceway, Sonoma, CA. The pics at the link are from Laguna Seca, in 2008 celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Formula Junior class. The car is a one-off, and was driven by Nick Reynolds of the Kingston Trio.

[poshgeordie]

My toy. Click on the pictures for a larger view. No, it's not streetable. I only get to drive it around 3 times a year, usually at Infineon Raceway, Sonoma, CA. The pics at the link are from Laguna Seca, in 2008 celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Formula Junior class. The car is a one-off, and was driven by Nick Reynolds of the Kingston Trio.

What's the engine? I see from one of the photos the gearbox has VW stamped on it.

Any more info?

Thanks for the great pics!

[killer]

It is refreshing to see you on this channel of the forum, poshgeordie, and maybe there is a lesson to be learnt about 'All work and no play', etc.

It was very brave of you to take a Clan Crusader that far. How may miles/kms was the journey? I loved the pics of that engine. You don't see that sort of carb set up anymore.

Our new XF doesn't even have a dipstick! No key in the steering column either. Provided the key is in the car you just press the button and it starts. Amazing what they make in Birmingham these days!

[killer]

@mediasponge: That is a tasty looking machine. My eyes are dim and I didn't spot the VW mark. Hopefully someone will point it out.

[mediasponge]

There was a spec sheet on the conceptcarz site, complete with errors. The car is a grab bag of late 50's and early 60's parts. The engine is a Fiat 1100 (iron-block, pushrod) engine in full race trim (but still only about 85 BHP). A stock Fiat 1100 is rated at about 45 BHP. Weber DCO-3 carbs off an early Alfa Veloce. Wild cam grind on a factory cam (10.5 mm lift, 300 deg duration, 80 deg overlap). That's about the limit of what you can do with flat tappets (rollers not allowed). NOS Mondial racing pistons (could do better with Mahle or Venolia). The gearbox is actually a very early Porsche unit (519 single-mount hard synchro) from a 356 pre-A Sportster. Porsche was using the VW split-case outer with their own gears up till '55. Nice close-ratio gearset compared to the VW gears. The steering is British (early Sprite-Midget rack with A-H rod ends). The tube-frame chassis and Aluminum bodywork was built in Sausalito, CA by a builder named Nadeau Bourgeault. The chassis has aircraft-grade AN bolts throughout. AN plumbing for fuel and oil. The wheels are Borrani wires, 60-spoke in front, 72-spoke rear (massive overkill for a car that light). The tires are a vintage-mandated hard-compound tire from Dunlop Racing. The only good thing about those tires is they last forever. The disadvantage of a one-off is I can't get away with changing much of anything. It's too well documented. The good thing is when somebody gives me period photos of the car, I don't need to ask which car it's a photo of.

[mediasponge]

This is what I've been driving through the summer. Did some freshening up on the engine compartment and interior, but still a work in progress. It is a 1962 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider. I put a 1600 engine and hood in it at one point. It's a bit of a hotrod, but not a track-ready car. I also have one of the rare Pininfarina factory steel hard tops for it. I've owned this car since 1975. It was a $100 car! I used to autocross it heavily with the Alfa Romeo Association, and with SCCA, even at the Duel At DeAnza. No more autocrossing lately, not since getting the Bourgeault. The Alfa has heavy springs and swaybar, Panasport wheels, Yokohama tires, dual Weber DCOE carbs, steel tube headers. I subscribe to the Harley-Davidson motto: "Loud pipes save lives."

If you're a movie buff, one of these cars is featured prominently in the original version of "Day of the Jackal" where the assassin drives around in one of these half the film. It's white, too. The villain paints the car blue by the side of the road, then crashes it.

[poshgeordie]

thanks for that info Mediasponge. The track car sounds like a very interesting project and must be fun to use too.

[Turbo Audi]

Anyone looking into getting a 2012 Ford Focus? The car looks amazing for being what it is. I want to test drive it, and dump the bimmer.

[RealBlackStuff]

OOPS!
Thought you mentioned the new Fiesta, to which the stuff below relates!
Focus? I nearly got one for my daughter at an auction, but someone beat me to it.
I've rented a few in Europe, and the Focus is a great car. I only know the hatchback (not available (yet) in USA).
Very pleasant ride, well equipped cars. Very UN-Ford like compared to the other rubbish (Fiesta etc.) they sell in Europe.

This is about Ford Fiesta:
I've driven several of its predecessor models in Ireland.
The general consensus was: it's good for doing shopping, but not much else.
They were very sloppy in their finishing (huge gaps between boot, hood and body, doors and jambs), suspension was lousy and brakes not very good.
It didn't take long for the Fiesta to be renamed the Fiasco, and I agree 100%.
Mind you, in Ireland people usually buy only the most basic models, due to ridiculous import duties, and Ford UK (where they were produced) has/had a bad habit of sending less desirable versions, models and colors (Purple anyone?) to Ireland.
If the new one is now made in USA, I still wouldn't buy it.