Environmentalism

[pphilipko]

According to Bill McKibben in his National Geographic article, he stated that "environmentalism is mostly an American invention, one of the most powerful ideas we've offered to the rest of the planet..."

WTF?! Who said that we Americans are environmentally conscious? In fact, we might as well be the most environmentally unconscious country in the world (taking note of population).

Why are there so many jingoistic Americans out there, I wonder? *sigh*

[dsigma6]

That's a pretty bold/unrealistic comment. The US probably has 1 for every 100 environmentally conscious people across this planet.

Philly pride!

[christopher_wolf]

That may be, but I propose that we actually have 100 people who complain about it for evey 1 environmentalist we have for every perceived 100 in the rest of the world. A 100:1:100 ratio.

Thereby making it seem, by relativity, that we don't have that many.

[JHEM]

According to Bill McKibben in his National Geographic article, he stated that "environmentalism is mostly an American invention, one of the most powerful ideas we've offered to the rest of the planet..."

i haven't read the article yet, I'm saving this month's issue for a quieter time, but as an environmental engineer, a self professed environmentalist and someone who knows a bit about environmental history, I'd have to say that he's not wrong.

Nor is that jingoistic.

From the start of the Sierra Club in 1892, most environmental concerns, and awareness, have first been addressed in the US.

Read about the establishment of national parks, and where they started.

Read "Silent Spring".

Unlike the "private" hunting clubs that maintained protected lands for a privileged few in the UK and EU, Ducks Unlimited and Ducks Unlimited Canada have worked since 1937 to protect public wetlands.

I could go on, but you get the idea. The "environmental movement" began in the US. Unfortunately, of late the US has been among the first to allow environmental concerns to fall by the wayside in order to achieve greater profits.

Regards,

James

[christopher_wolf]

Read "Silent Spring."

*Highly* recommended, by the way.

[BillMorrow]

Phil..

OVERPOPULATION..!!!

[JHEM]

OVERPOPULATION..!!!

For that you can read Thomas Malthus or Paul R. Ehrlich.

Both are considered extreme cases of FUD nowadays.

James

[lucas]

yeah, because then you take a modern environmental economics class and learn the facts

[BillMorrow]

Both are considered extreme cases of FUD nowadays.
James

FUD ?

[DIGITALgimpus]

Considering how small the US population actually is (and especially if you account for the growth overseas especially in China and India) our polution output is really unacceptable. 2 billion people don't pollute as bad as a couple million americans. It's not that we can't improve. It's that we won't improve.

[BillMorrow]

It's not that we can't improve. It's that we won't improve.

the issue is much more complex than a simple "won't improve"..

look where all the raw materials are going right now..!
oil, cement, steel, etc..
china..!
and maybe india..

al gore, that global warming, carbon footprint, kyoto accords guy has three homes totalling what..? 45,000 sq feet..?
for one one married man..
whats HIS carbon footprint..?

most have < 2000 sq. feet for a family of 3.2~..

the future COULD be bright except for religious fanatics with bombs..
OUR religious fanatics are bad enough, those muslim extremeists are what will bring it ALL down if they get the "bomb"..

where is your environmental concern then..?

[AlphaKilo470]

How are we sure it's exactly the Earth causing all this wrming? What about sun spot activity or weather cycles? Position of the Earth to Sun? The fact that the universe is changing on a daily basis?

I'm not really trying to take a side here but many people arguing on global warming fail to completly link our actions to the weather cycles (though I'm sure we affect them to an extent) and in many cases refuse to look at any other possible causes. In most cases it seems to be more about the politics than the actual issue.

In a semi-related note, does anyone remember when "global cooling" was the talk of the media, environmentalists and politicians?

[JHEM]

FUD ?

Sowing Fear, Uncertainty and Doom!

James

[BigWarpGuy]

FUD is 'fear untruth deceit'. It is how some say Microsoft became the prominent leader in operating systems for computers.

[Kyocera]

I'm enjoying this global warming here in North Kakalaki! Been a great summer, not too terribly hot this year, no hurricanes.

Global warming rules

[JHEM]

How are we sure it's exactly the Earth causing all this wrming?

Because it's a CLOSED SYSTEM!!

Out of sight is NOT out of mind!

Dilution is NOT the solution to pollution!

Ultimately, we ALL live downstream of pollution sources.

Of course politics drives the issue, but those in the driver's seat (the current administration) are unwilling to force their well heeled friends to clean up their act!

James

[JHEM]

FUD is 'fear untruth deceit'. It is how some say Microsoft became the prominent leader in operating systems for computers.

Oh yes, how stupid of me.

The English language didn't exist before Microsoft!

Actually, the acronym is usually ascribed to IBM salesmen and deciphered as Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

James

[AlphaKilo470]

How are we sure it's exactly the Earth causing all this wrming?

Because it's a CLOSED SYSTEM!!

So the sun has nothing to do with this; that's you are implying? I know we are causing some of the stuff happening but it just doesn't seem to occur to anyone that there are many factors involved here. The first one in mind is a giant f**king star a couple of planets over from us that goes through changes from time to time.

In elementary school I learned that the universe was always changing. With this, after so long there are going to be differences over the decades, subtle as they may be. However, many of the given arguments I hear stay the same.

[DIGITALgimpus]

How are we sure it's exactly the Earth causing all this wrming? What about sun spot activity or weather cycles? Position of the Earth to Sun? The fact that the universe is changing on a daily basis?

The biggest reason is speed. Most minus solar activity (which is semi-obvious to those who study it) is pretty slow. The earth does have cycles of warmer and cooler times (we are somewhere in the middle now by most accounts), but the speed of the change thus far correlates pretty closely with the industrial age. Not to mention, the hole in the ozone (which many say was natural) started to heal up once stricter laws were passed.

It's amazing, but there's some theory that a 1 degree global climate change could kill many. Some even theorize that a 1 degree cooling influenced the plague in europe (colder weather caused rats to move indoors closer to humans, colder weather lowers immune systems, etc. etc.)

[bill bolton]

FUD is 'fear untruth deceit'.

FUD is actually an acronym for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt"... an IBM marketing speciality from way, way, way back!

Cheers,

Bill

[BillMorrow]

whatever the cause of global warming, the result is likely to be the next ice age..
when the atlantic conveyor stops (due to warmer and fresher water in the north atlantic from melting ice and siberian rivers, etc) it will bring on an ice age in the northern latitudes..

the only question is when..

it has happened before..

the last ice age ended about 1850..

the planet DOES go through cycles..

where i agree with mr. gore, the hypocrite, is we are causing some of this..
how much seems to be "pretty much" according to most of the impartial scientific community..
the only question is when..?
most of the above seem to agree within this century..
so, while global warming shows that the sea level will rise, the next ice age will reverse all that..

<sigh> FUD..?
maybe so, maybe not..

all i have to say is is fortune favors the prpeared..
which, along with luck, is how i survived about 10 hurricanes from bob thru andrew, hugo to irene and wilma..!
i just hope my luck holds..