Are you considering buying a non-Thinkpad laptop?

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pianowizard · #1 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:39 am

For my next laptop, I am thinking about getting the HP nc2400. It's nice because it's only 2.8 lbs (very slightly heavier than my X40) but has an integrated DVD/CDRW drive. It also has a widescreen display, which I prefer to the 4:3 type. And it's relatively inexpensive at $1,470 (okay, that's still a lot of money for me, but it's at least within my budget), and it should get cheaper in the near future. My Dell Inspiron 700m's warranty will expire in two months and I will probably sell it for $600. This HP would be a nice replacement. One final reason for getting it is that I have never owned or even touched an HP laptop before, so it would be nice to try one.

Is anyone else planning to get a non-Thinkpad for your next laptop?

tselling · #2 Post by **tselling** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:21 pm

The only thing bad I can see in the specs is that it uses 1.8" 4200rpm drives like the Thinkpad X40 series.

MobileGuru · #3 Post by **MobileGuru** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:42 pm

What about the V100 .. good config .. built in optical .. webcam .. and cheap prices?

MG.

mfratt · #4 Post by **mfratt** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:11 pm

If youre going non-thinkpad, hp business is the way to go, but they still dont match up to thinkpads. They are less solid overall, fewer features, etc. I also have never been a fan of the "squishy" feel of hp's keyboards on the business models. The HP is still much better than the a dell or consumer hp, but do yourself a favor and get a thinkpad.

pianowizard · #5 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:23 pm

mfratt wrote:The HP is still much better than the a dell or consumer hp, but do yourself a favor and get a thinkpad.

I have owned about ten Thinkpads, am familiar with their exceptional quality and love them, but what I want is to replace my Inspiron 700m with something that also has a 12.1" widescreen (very important) and an internal DVD drive (not critical, but nice to have one) but even lighter (also very important). There isn't a Thinkpad model that meets these criteria.

#6 Post by **archer6** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:57 pm

pianowizard wrote:I have owned about ten Thinkpads, am familiar with their exceptional quality and love them, but what I want is to replace my Inspiron 700m with something that also has a 12.1" widescreen (very important) and an internal DVD drive (not critical, but nice to have one) but even lighter (also very important). There isn't a Thinkpad model that meets these criteria.

I agree with you on the niceties of a widescreen display. I find many benefits of widescreen. However, this is the _only advantage_ I see in the HP vs. ThinkPad evaulation.

The problem as I see it, is that you _have owned many ThinkPads_ and are used to their excellent build quality, fault free keyboards etc. I think you would be disappointed. Especially since now they are so much more expensive than the X series. In my company we place a high value on TCO, "Total Cost of Ownership". Taking into consideration that ThinkPads last a very long time, are fully supported for years, and are completely reliable, they end up being far less expensive to own than the other brands. Even when we consider initial purchase price, an equally equipped ThinkPad X model is not any more expensive and if purhased from an authorized reseller is easliy a few hundred dollars less than the HP.

I paid under $1300 for my X60s and it's fast, quiet, cool running and very stable. To me, thats what counts.

Finally there is the concern of HP service and support. This is a model that is new, has no track record and is therefore an unknown. Only time will tell if it will perform reliably and be kept in their lineup for any period of time.

Puppy · #7 Post by **Puppy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:29 am

Review of nc2400: http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=3449 ... I like it

I still hope Lenovo will compete with a ThinkPad <1.5 kg 12" widescreen model including internal DVD drive. Lenovo branded V100 is promising but far from ThinkPad standards and little bit heavy comparing to Sony or (now) HP.

#8 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:20 pm

if h/p support for their business class laptop is ANYTHING near to the support and concern i received when the toner cartridge went a little crazy on a 2 month old laserjet (semi cheap model) then i would take h/p..

the guy (yeah, an indian guy but he said he was in canada) called me back several times to find if i was satisfied with the service and the speed of their replacing that bad toner cartridge..

he did not even really care if i returned the old one but since this was a really strange failure, i did return it to a person, not an RMA # and the garbage dumpster..

i would equate this as level with lenovo/ibm's support..

DIGITALgimpus · #9 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:25 pm

My next purchase will likely be another Mac, but likely desktop before laptop (since my T43 will hold out longer than the weaker Mac mini rev1 I have). Not to mention I want to wait until they have a little more intel experience.

Always solid hardware and good support. I went Thinkpad to get a PC with Apple like quality.

#10 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:10 pm

and, FWIW, after i got this iPOD G5, i was so impressed by its design and fit and finish i asked if the apple laptops were of the same quality..

i think the answer was, more or less, yes..

/begin ramble

ya know, for years i had close connections to h/p when i lived in palo alto, los altos and los altos hills..
and i suggested to several people that they apply to h/p for jobs..
(at that time i had "connections")

h/p built excellent mini-computers, mirco-computers and, of course, scientific and technical instruments..
(though strangely, they used a LOT of DEC VAX machines in what became "old corporate", many more than the h/p 3000 machines that they made)

look up the h/p 1, sometime, for an interesting example of h/p whimsey..

i always experienced top tech support..

even on the first laserjet printer out their door..
an employee purchase and no one had ever seen one until that time..

i never even saw another apple from the time of the prototype apple-II shown at the homebrew computer club meeting until i got an apple lisa at a local high tech auction and dumped that thing as way too slow..

/end ramble

christopher_wolf · #11 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:09 pm

BillMorrow wrote:and, FWIW, after i got this iPOD G5, i was so impressed by its design and fit and finish i asked if the apple laptops were of the same quality..

i think the answer was, more or less, yes..

Oh, yeah. You could say that Apple has always paid a good deal of attention to the quality of their hardware; partly because they integrate their "design" aesthetics with the engineering where they can and as much as they can (think of how they would go about putting electronics into a modern art shell and you have a pretty good idea of how they start off on a new product in the rawest state)...which generally means it gets more expensive but for good reason from the standpoint of many of their users.

Although there are some veteran Apple users that really don't like to use OS X, the G4s and up, the iMacs, etc because they view it as part of the budding Jobs empire (Apple Consumer Electronics and Home Entertainment) and not all that well aligned with the old Apple (Personal Comupters and Research). Even though that is true to some extent, such as the iPod, it has indeed made Apple alot more money than they have been used to in recent years.

Although that is more of internal strife, which is seemingly a tradition in most of the Bay Area/Silicon Valley High Tech companies that become popular.

But, sssh, secrets, eh? Hurd, Fiorina, and Dunn might be listening.

NS · #12 Post by NS » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:47 am

The first laptop that i ever owned when i was 15 years old was an Acer, then at 16, i got my 1st T30 and then i proceed to work part time and used my 1st pay to get an R52 and so on... So far all the thinkpads which i have used NEVER disappoint me at all and i am very contented to be a proud owner of thinkpads.

Who knows later on i will try Fujitsu... But this is only a 20% possibility... I am too used to thinkpads and their support...

Many thanks...

pianowizard · #13 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:23 pm

pianowizard wrote:For my next laptop, I am thinking about getting the HP nc2400.

14 months after writing the above in the opening post, I finally got one, and love it! I will write a short review comparing the HP nc2400 with the Thinkpad X series shortly.

UPDATE: I've written the review in this thread.

bhurley · #14 Post by **bhurley** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:16 pm

Since I use both Mac OSX and Windows, I was seriously considering buying a MacBook Pro and running Windows on it using BootCamp. The MacBook Pros have been rated among the fastest Windows laptops on the market, and they run XP natively like any other Intel machine; apparently they can also run Vista just fine too. However, when I started doing the math it didn't look so good, mainly because XP Professional now retails for over $500 Canadian so you have to add that to the price. Apart from that, though, a MacBook Pro is actually more affordable than a comparably powerful ThinkPad: a 15" 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro with 2 gigs of RAM and a 120-gig hard drive goes for $2,200 Canadian. A 15" ThinkPad T61p with 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, 2 gigs of RAM and a 120-gig hard drive sells for $2,300 Canadian. The 2.4 GHz T61s are even more expensive, there's nothing exactly comparable to the MacBook Pro in a ThinkPad but the closest one is almost $3,000. It's having to buy Windows separately that makes the MacBook more expensive.

qviri · #15 Post by **qviri** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:35 pm

bhurley wrote:XP Professional now retails for over $500 Canadian so you have to add that to the price.

Hmmm?

It's an OEM version, but seeing how you're going to install it on one laptop anyway that does not make a difference.

mikey pizano · #16 Post by **mikey pizano** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:29 pm

Not to spam companies but I think Acer computers are quite nice. I have a budget model and its still working great. HP are also nice.

#17 Post by **KristianJ** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:20 am

pianowizard wrote: 14 months after writing the above in the opening post, I finally got one, and love it! I will write a short review comparing the HP nc2400 with the Thinkpad X series shortly.

How much cheaper was it than the $1470 that you stated in that post, PW?

(that is, of course, if it was)

#18 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:53 am

since followup's seem to be popular, here's a quick one from me..

i picked up an apple macbook pro..
as was mentioned after my comment about the iPod, it is well made and has some nice feastures..

its main drawbacks are it is no where as configuerable as a thinkpad..
i.e. it needs to be disassembled to swap the HDD.. which means no easy route to OS experimentation..

i LOVE the way the AC adapter connects to the apple..
little magnet holds it to the macbook..
it DOES come off easily when i brush past it but the macbook does not fly off the stand..

another con is the accessories are expensive and proprietary when compared to the thinkpad..

i bought an extra AC adapter from an on line company called Mega Watts Computers in Tulsa OK and it arrived incomplete..
i.e. without the proprietary apple line cord..
can't get my money back or a cord from those liars..
oh, they'll give part of my money back but they still make their profit..

there are a few other negatives compared to the thinkpad but the macbook is a swell notebook..
really more art as it is a business tool..

bigtiger · #19 Post by **bigtiger** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:24 pm

I used to own a Macbook Pro for quite long. I do not like it. As said by BillMorrow, it is difficult to configure, hardware wise.

I used it to edit movies. I compared it to my X60S. It does not work significantly faster and smoother than my X60S. People claim a MBP never crashes but so does my X60S.

Another big drawback is that the case is not as sturdier as a Thinkpad X6X series. I took good care of my MBP but still there are quite a few small dents here and there.

bhurley · #20 Post by **bhurley** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:25 am

bigtiger wrote:Another big drawback is that the case is not as sturdier as a Thinkpad X6X series. I took good care of my MBP but still there are quite a few small dents here and there.

I'm a long-time user of both Apple notebooks and ThinkPads. In general I agree that the ThinkPads are better built and sturdier. Apple seems to have quality control issues; I've owned nine or ten Macs since 1985 and every one of them had hardware problems, either right from the start or within the first year. In contrast each of the four ThinkPads I've owned has been totally reliable (apart from the operating system of course).

I can't remember the exact statistic, but I last I heard something like 20 or 30 million people use Macs for business, and not just the graphics or music business. I used mine as a corporate business machine for years until I was forced to switch to Windows because one of my clients wanted me to use a program that was only available for Windows. Some pretty big companies are all Mac; I'm pretty sure Genzyme runs entirely on Macs for example. So does Apple

Puppy · #21 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:10 am

New HP/Compaq models are getting higher on my list. There are several reasons:

1. HP offers to select English version of preinstalled Windows and software at first boot (why this is still that difficult for Lenovo ????

)
2. Since Lenovo has given up on IPS displays, there is no added value of ThinkPad display quality anymore. Moreover HP seems to get better quality TN panels than Lenovo.
3. HP has more competitive pricing than Lenovo for similar configuration over here.
4. HP offers to extend warranty to up to 5 years and "Accidental damage" protection. ThinkPad Protection service is still not available here.

Main reason against getting HP for me is that latest widescreen models caused changing of keyboard layout to unuseable one

#22 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:13 pm

bigtiger wrote:I took good care of my MBP but still there are quite a few small dents here and there.

The aluminum alloy casing seems to have been a dent magnet for many years now. I remember seeing PowerBook G4's with lots of small dents in them

My biggest problem with the MBP is the keyboard. It is mushy and shallow compared to the T61. This strikes me as odd, considering that the consumer grade MacBook has a very solid keyboard.

dr_st · #23 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:48 pm

Puppy wrote:Main reason against getting HP for me is that latest widescreen models caused changing of keyboard layout to unuseable one

And unfortunately that's probably not going to change. So now it's only Thinkpads and some Dell Latitudes that still have the keyboard layout of the six navigation keys not screwed.

When I started my job and I heard that it was possible that I would be getting an HP laptop, my heart skipped a beat for this exact reason - keyboard crappiness. I was so happy to get a T60!

pianowizard · #24 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:29 pm

As I wrote in the opening post, I was planning to buy an HP nc2400 back in Aug 2006. I didn't buy it until Oct 2007, and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life. The laptop was inexpensive ($620), very portable (2.81 lbs with optical drive taken out, and 3.16 lbs with optical drive), as well built as any Thinkpad, and has a serious-looking design that suits what I use it for (giving talks/seminars at conferences and other institutions).

I've been disappointed by pretty much all Thinkpads released after the T60, so once again I am considering buying another non-Thinkpad laptop. This time it will most likely be the Dell Latitude E4200, which seems even better than the nc2400 although it won't have an internal optical drive.

It seems to me that many people on this forum are also not happy with the latest Thinkpads. So, what alternatives are you considering? (I think this thread is not only a "just for fun" exercise but can also help people dissatisfied with the current Thinkpads find an alternative.)

mpcook · #25 Post by **mpcook** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:39 pm

I have an HP 2510p which I think is excellent. I have had many TP's as you can see, and the HP is close to older ones in quality, feel, etc. I only have the HP because that's what I get at work, but for the first time, I am not disappointed with a non TP.

Mike

#26 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:50 pm

I base laptop decision on quality, support, smallness, lightness, strength and other issues. Up until now, ThinkPads have always won out for me. YMMV.

One overriding concern is the mouse. I will not purchase any laptop that doesn't have a trackpoint. And, yes, that means if Lenovo stops offering trackpoints and no one picks up the ball, I will not buy another laptop.

And for those who wonder, I have made every effort and serious effort to learn how to use a touchpad. Two things:

1. Every touchpad on whatever computer set whatever way that I have ever used executes commands that I don't issue.
2. Because of 1, well over 90 percent of the people I observe using touchpads (a) use two hands, AND (b) encounter the same errors, thus making mistakes of deletes, copies, program launches and other like errors.

Your mileage may well vary and you may be much more successful than me in using a touchpad. I report only how I see what affects me. However, it is a very serious issue for me and is a determining factor in what, if any, laptop I will purchase.

... JDH

mattbiernat · #27 Post by **mattbiernat** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:14 pm

I am considering the new Dell Lattitude E series. I am simply going for the plain looks, better screen quality and a cheaper price. The E series also has trackpoint so there should be no problem for me adjusting.
here is the link: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=65826

#28 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:19 am

Looking at those Dell E5400 and E5500, it makes me wonder if Dell tries to usurp the Thinkpad customers that are jumping ship from Lenovo...
(Dell is the new black).

mattbiernat · #29 Post by **mattbiernat** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:27 pm

if they only offer trackpoint on the e4300 models i bet you a lot of people here will be sold on those...

#30 Post by **schen** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:43 pm

jdhurst wrote: One overriding concern is the mouse. I will not purchase any laptop that doesn't have a trackpoint. And, yes, that means if Lenovo stops offering trackpoints and no one picks up the ball, I will not buy another laptop.

Exactly why I rule out virtually all other notebook computers. If Apple would put a trackpoint on a PowerBook, I might buy one. But as other have already stated; they'd still have to improve their KBs.

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