When did torture became a legal form of interogation?

[mattbiernat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14897315/?GT1=8506

"Arar, now 36, was detained by U.S. authorities as he changed planes in New York on Sept. 26, 2002. He was held for questioning for 12 days, then flown by jet to Jordan and driven to Syria. He was beaten, forced to confess to having trained in Afghanistan -- where he never has been -- and then kept in a coffin-size dungeon for 10 months before he was released, the Canadian inquiry commission found."

now whom should we be more afraid of? our gov't or the terrorists?

[mfratt]

When did it become legal? Its not.

There are three points I need to make.
1. We are not torturing, the Syrians and Lebonese are.
2. What we do is called "coersive interrogation," which includes cold and hot temperatures, sleep depravation, making them stand or sit for a long time, and playing loud music.
3. Such methods of interrogation (and shipping them out for other forms of getting answers) though brutal, became necessary when they declared Jihad on us and started trying to kill us and flying planes into our buildings.

My suggestions to you:
1. Watch the clips from 9/11 again. Watch the planes strike the buildings, and the people jumping out because they did not want to burn to death. Think about what that means. Think about the mommies and daddies who were slaughtered. Think about every one of those people who were murdered because of some anachronistic 9th century "religious" fanatic Islamo-Nazis who insist that everyone not like them must be murdered. Think about that before you question what methods must be used to stop them.
2. Dont let the liberalness of UC corrupt you. I know UC Berkley is bad in this manner, I would guess Irvine is no better. Scrutnize *everything* you are told, analyze it, think about it. Dont take anything for granted.

PS Sorry for the politically loaded post, but it was to a politically loaded thread.

[christopher_wolf]

2. Dont let the liberalness of UC corrupt you. I know UC Berkley is bad in this manner, I would guess Irvine is no better. Scrutnize *everything* you are told, analyze it, think about it. Dont take anything for granted.

Oh...I don't know; I think I am going to give this the next post or so to explain itself, you know. Mind you it has to be a *good* explanation, and not a bad one.

I'll be waiting...

[DIGITALgimpus]

2. What we do is called "coersive interrogation," which includes cold and hot temperatures, sleep depravation, making them stand or sit for a long time, and playing loud music.

According to our own government that is considered torture and has not been debated... similar techniques were used against our own soldiers in previous conflicts (the hot/cold reminds me of a story about Vietnam) and it was considered 100% against Geneva conventions.


The questions being asked (without media re-wording) are simply:
1. What obligation to the Geneva Conventions do we have?
1a. Who would be accountable?
2. Can we have other governments do it by proxy, and what is the accountability?


That's about all there is to it. Ask MSNBC and FoxNews, and they will spin the debate to their appropriate viewpoints, but that's all that's really being discussed. Nobody in government is debating if it is/isn't torture, the closest they have come is "is it enough? or is it too much?". The difference is *gigantic*.

So stop the fud.

[christopher_wolf]

Still waiting for somebody to give a, sane, reason for mfratt's post; besides just refuting it (which DIGITALgimpus did a very good job of already)....No?

Very well then.

[mfratt]

Still waiting for somebody to give a, sane, reason for mfratt's post; besides just refuting it (which DIGITALgimpus did a very good job of already)....No?

I wasn't really attacking UC **** in specific, but the overall left-winged agenda of most universities today. Over here is the Commonwealth, we have this modest little school known to Bostonians as Haaavad, which allows men such as Khatami to come speek, but shuns away anyone remotely conservative.

[mattbiernat]

1. We are not torturing, the Syrians and Lebonese are.

did you read the article carefully? it says that we transported prisoner to foreign country where he was beaten (beaten = tortured).

2. What we do is called "coersive interrogation," which includes cold and hot temperatures, sleep depravation, making them stand or sit for a long time, and playing loud music.

again the prisoner was beaten...

3. Such methods of interrogation (and shipping them out for other forms of getting answers) though brutal, became necessary when they declared Jihad on us and started trying to kill us and flying planes into our buildings.

I see you are a great supporter of a very well know philosopher Mill. Nothing wrong with that. You can choose to have whatever ethical believes you want to have. But there if we agree to torturing to achieve personal goals we also agree to slavery. Both methods use a human being as a tool to gain personal benefits of the greater amount of people.

My suggestions to you:
1. Watch the clips from 9/11 again. Watch the planes strike the buildings, and the people jumping out because they did not want to burn to death. Think about what that means. Think about the mommies and daddies who were slaughtered. Think about every one of those people who were murdered because of some anachronistic 9th century "religious" fanatic Islamo-Nazis who insist that everyone not like them must be murdered. Think about that before you question what methods must be used to stop them.
2. Dont let the liberalness of UC corrupt you. I know UC Berkley is bad in this manner, I would guess Irvine is no better. Scrutnize *everything* you are told, analyze it, think about it. Dont take anything for granted.

PS Sorry for the politically loaded post, but it was to a politically loaded thread.

you are making an emotional appeal. UCI is not liberal. it is built at a conservative and republican Orange Count.
anyways what does the place where i live at has to do with US gov't torturing people? And if you really want to know where i was raised there you go: 14 years Poland, 5 Years Hollywood, 5 Years UCI.

now before you provide more arguments to support torturing people im going to share with you an adivce. "don't do anything that you wouldn't want others do to you" - i got this very simple advice from one of my ethics professors when asked how to deal with ethical problems in life.

[christopher_wolf]

I said a *good* reason; had I, on the other hand, said "Please provide a highly evasive, irrelevant, and backpedaling reason" then, yes, that might very well fit in quite well.

Many universities and colleges have speakers from both sides as well as students from both sides of the politcal specturm; stereotyping one or the other as "corrupt" brands based on group-held catchisms and fume-inspired retorts brands one ignorant and borderline redundant. This was not required nor welcome.

Although I suppose a real life example of such had to be put forth to, indeed, showcase why doing such is am extremely bad idea in the first place. I guess that might warrant a "good job" as a form of usefulness in some way.

Much like this

They do say that a picture says 1000 words, you know.