HP and Compaq quality over the years

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440roadrunner · #1 Post by **440roadrunner** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:44 pm

They paid alot of money for the Thinkpad name, now they want to spend even more for something...not IBM or Thinkpad

I donnoo, I felt the same way when HP got into Comcrap, and still feel that way. Back in my Navy days, HP was known for high quality, bulletproof test equipment, and to see even a remote finger of the company associated with something as bizzare as Comcrap just floors me.

Thinkpaddict · #2 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:31 am

440roadrunner wrote:
They paid alot of money for the Thinkpad name, now they want to spend even more for something...not IBM or Thinkpad

I donnoo, I felt the same way when HP got into Comcrap, and still feel that way. Back in my Navy days, HP was known for high quality, bulletproof test equipment, and to see even a remote finger of the company associated with something as bizzare as Comcrap just floors me.

Yeah, HP is a good example of a company that has gone down the toilet. The HP line of calculators was the best. Nowadays, TI rules the marketplace. I would be hard pressed to point out a single instance in my recent college years where I have seen anyone sporting an HP calculator.

christopher_wolf · #3 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:59 pm

Thinkpaddict wrote: Yeah, HP is a good example of a company that has gone down the toilet. The HP line of calculators was the best. Nowadays, TI rules the marketplace. I would be hard pressed to point out a single instance in my recent college years where I have seen anyone sporting an HP calculator.

I still have those. HP 11, HP 29C, HP48G, etc. Do I know *that* story well.

Now what can you find? Not many of them. TI used to make calculators that were second to the HPs...but now, it is different in that they have somehow taken nearly the whole effecive market for them and easily replaced the 48G with the 89. Probably because most, non-serious, people that used them didn't like RPN or any of the other features that were branded as "esoteric" for one reason or another. The same thing happened with their Lab equipment....much to my chagrin.

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:25 pm

I still have my HP29C somewhere but do not use it. My HP15C sits in my desk drawer at home and remains a daily driver for home use. My HP42S is in my briefcase at all times and is a daily driver when at clients. My HP19B is also in my desk drawer at home, but is not a daily driver. That style had a weak case where the batteries went in, and HP replaced the original machine (broken case) with a whole new HP19B II. That is not the HP of today, so far as my experience tells me. You can tell from the series numbers that I only use RPN.

And of course as I have noted here before, I still have working HP606B, 200CD and 400D in the basement from an HP long ago.
... JD Hurst

#5 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:38 pm

I know I've posted about my work HP nc6220 here before. Well, it bit the dust this week. I had been having several recurring problems recently with the display, the keyboard and recent problems with over-heating. The display was replaced about three weeks ago (I was in the middle of replying to an urgent message before calling into a meeting when it went black - I went nuts since I had a deadline and didn't even have the passcode for the call.)

Last week, several keys stopped and started working intermittently. And the last straw was the day the keyboard was replaced, the whole thing heated up suddenly, and the fan came on and ran for hours.

I have a different work notebook now. Still an nc6220, but the issues I had with the keyboard on the other one from Day One don't exist on this one. This keyboard is responsive and feels like a TP. On the other hand, the pointing stick doesn't work as well as the first one did. Hmmm... Always a trade-off.

christopher_wolf · #6 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:49 pm

Overheating? For some reason that seems to be a problem on most HP, non-OmniBook, notebooks I have seen. One guy even rigged a fan to the back of his to eliminate the heat and it was supposed to be an ultraportable and several of mine have, next to their keyboard problems (they don't have metal backing, only some kind of hard plastic), overheated repeatedly and would, surpise, go to a blank screen suddenly. This would happen even though they generally had *2* fans the size of those used on the T Series. Last I checked on some HP forums, they were posting about the heating problems...but even that was some time ago.

#7 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:08 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:it was supposed to be an ultraportable and several of mine have, next to their keyboard problems (they don't have metal backing, only some kind of hard plastic),

This model has a metal backing.

christopher_wolf · #8 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:01 pm

That's definitely an improvement. How hot does it get?

#9 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:12 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Overheating? For some reason that seems to be a problem on most HP, non-OmniBook, notebooks I have seen.

It's a real shame the OmniBook line got killed off as those were, bar none, some of the best laptops around. HP really was better in the 90s, in my opinion. In the early 2000s, they started producing some pretty cheap looking machines and they replaced the infamous HP48 line of calculators with those things that look and feel like kid's toys. Coincidentally enough, the quality decline seems like it came and left with Carly though I can't prove at the moment that those two factors are related.

pianowizard · #10 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:21 pm

HP printers and scanners are still good though, no?

christopher_wolf · #11 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:57 pm

I still have my OmniBook running Windows 2000 and it still works too. Probably the best HP system I have owned.

HP Printers are pretty much now the lifeblood of HP and most are pretty good, their cheaper scanners and printers, however, have had some problems...but, overall, their high-end is pretty good. I switched to a Canon scanner as well as a seperate Canon printer because of several things that I noticed with the HP inkjet I got and the HP scanner;

1.) The printer guzzled *expensive* ink; I couldn't find cheap cartridges for it.

2.) The scanner slowly malfunctioned and came with extra software that wasn't really needed and wasn't optional during the install. It was large and unecessarily bulky for no real reason when it could have done the same job with a smaller case.

3.) The printer eventually died around the same time the scanner did and the drive belt literally disintegrated.

The Canon LiDE 80 scanner is small, thin, and runs off of USB power only so it is pretty portable. The Canon printer has done the job easily and hasn't jammed at all. I have also been tempted to try and get another LaserJet because I simply haven't seen those problems with the HP LaserJets.

#12 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:05 pm

The LaserJet is the one thing that HP has always done right. Those printers will last forever and if you use a color one, the image quality is almost magazine quality.

dsigma6 · #13 Post by **dsigma6** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:23 pm

I actually work with printers, and my company uses HP exclusively for printing. We have about 25 HP4100's, and they are absolutely solid machines. We have two older HP4550N's, and they are a complete disaster. I just ordered a 2600N on Friday, we'll see how that goes...

Thinkpaddict · #14 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:46 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:
Thinkpaddict wrote: Yeah, HP is a good example of a company that has gone down the toilet. The HP line of calculators was the best. Nowadays, TI rules the marketplace. I would be hard pressed to point out a single instance in my recent college years where I have seen anyone sporting an HP calculator.
I still have those. HP 11, HP 29C, HP48G, etc. Do I know *that* story well.

You have an HP 11C? Cool...I plan on one day owning the complete 1xC line, as long as I don't need to sell my soul to get the 15C. Right now I have the 16C. Very neat programmer calculator. Extremely solid, elegant.

I also have: 48SX, 48GX, 48G+, 42S, 200LX (two of them, extremely cool DOS minicomputers that run on AA batteries forever), and 95LX. I would like to get in the near future: 100LX, all of the 1xC series, 28C, and a few others

The 48SX was *the* calculator to get if you were going to engineering school in the early 90s. Back then it was the ones with the blue LCD, manufactured in Singapore, and of superior quality to the later black LCD models that were manufactured in Malaysia (I think). The later one's keyboards are just not as good as the Singapore ones, but if you go to eBay sellers pushing the later models claim that they are better than the old ones, which is not true.

Sadly, RPN (although far better than "intuitive" arithmetic syntax) was never very popular amongst the dumbed down masses.

I must say that I used a TI89 exclusively for the past 4 years in college. Not a bad machine, but just not in the same class as a 48GX with respect to design, sturdiness, and keyboard quality. I don't know about programmability, since I didn't have to do any.

Thinkpaddict · #15 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:51 pm

jdhurst wrote:I still have my HP29C somewhere but do not use it. My HP15C sits in my desk drawer at home and remains a daily driver for home use. My HP42S is in my briefcase at all times and is a daily driver when at clients. My HP19B is also in my desk drawer at home, but is not a daily driver. That style had a weak case where the batteries went in, and HP replaced the original machine (broken case) with a whole new HP19B II. That is not the HP of today, so far as my experience tells me. You can tell from the series numbers that I only use RPN.

Yeah, RPN is great. You have two of the best all-time calculators: 15C and 42S. The prices at which these two go for in eBay is pretty incredible as well. I remember an eBay auction a few years back where a new in the box 15C went for around $1000.

In many respects I consider the classic HPs to be the Thinkpads of calculators. Great designs, sturdy, well supported, and the best keyboards in the business. It is just sad that they don't make them anymore.

#16 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:14 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:How hot does it get?

Hot enough to be annoying. I didn't measure it. I just got rid of it.

christopher_wolf · #17 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:33 pm

The 11C is great; and I do know that the SX was one of the "hot" calculators to have if you were in engineering. Now, however, we are left with whatever the hexk they did to the latest 48G to make it look like a piece of integrated office furniture. The TI89 is probably TI's best overall calculator, and fairs just as well as the 48G did in programming. Still, to this day, I have yet to find a calculator with the kind of tactile feedback and firmness that the HP calculators had. The HP11C is a great advanced, slimline calculator that I can keep in my pocket. Yet, at some point, HP just got rid of their calculator operations up in Corvallis, I think they outsourced most parts of it, and things begin to go downhill from there.

I got a free antistatic bag and casing for my 48G when I sent in for it and all the offers for neat equipment that would actually *work in a serious lab setting* was awesome. Not to mention the literal *novels* of manuals I got with it. Not this expensive toy of data collection that they like to call CBR/L II which is used with TI calculators. It may be kinda conveinent for classroom work, but the CBR is otherwise rather useless for anything more serious whereas you could actually link up a 48G in a structured network with the capability to perform calculations on the inbound data from an engineering library *on the calculator itself*. Again, that is something that I have only seen in computers and only vaguely in some PDAs.

#18 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:42 pm

Thinkpaddict wrote:I also have: 48SX, 48GX, 48G+, 42S, 200LX (two of them, extremely cool DOS minicomputers that run on AA batteries forever), and 95LX.

I've got a 200LX myself and I still use it.

When I first bought my $600 200LX, I bought a $400 PCMCIA Motorola PM1000 radio modem for use with it, for sending email wirelessly. When Ardis (the wireless carrier) no longer supported the DOS OS, they lost me as a customer. It was my brother that originally turned me on to the LX line when he had his 95LX. He since bought (2) 200LX's, but one just recently bit the dust. He is worried what he will do when the other one goes belly up. He relies on his 200LX quite a bit. He'll probably talk me out of mine when his last one is gone - then again, maybe not.

bigtiger · #19 Post by **bigtiger** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:15 pm

HP used to be good? Never heard of it. The first computer I ever used was a compaq desktop. That was in 1997. The machine works for about a year and then various problems. The technical support was close to nothing. I bought a compaq laptop (inspiron 1700) in 2000, hoping that the laptop might be different. It was crap. It freezed up like crazy.

pianowizard · #20 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:23 pm

bigtiger wrote:I bought a compaq laptop (inspiron 1700) in 2000, hoping that the laptop might be different. It was crap. It freezed up like crazy.

Although, if it ran Windows 98, then it's probably mainly the operating system's problem.

Besides printers, another category of products that HP was pretty good at were the handheld PCs. I owned a Jornada 720 and while it couldn't satisfy my needs very well, many people find these HPCs very useful. HP discontinued making HPCs several years back, but if they ever resume this product line, make them slightly bigger (so that the keyboard becomes easier to use) and increase the display resolution somewhat (half XGA would be great, i.e. 1024x384), then I might consider giving them another try.

Miller88 · #21 Post by **Miller88** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:58 am

I know that HP peripherals are pretty good. I was given an all in one 6110 that had a chronic jamming problem. Aparently it's wore out? Works good now that I fed about 500 sheets of paper through it nonstop.

At home, my parents have a compaq. Had it since 2001. It came with Windows ME - terrible operating system. It wasn't until I installed another copy of ME that I realized Compaq sent us a buggy reinstall CD (required a reinstall after 6 months) As far as the quality of the computer itself, it isn't that bad. We ran it for 3 or 4 years with only 128mb of ram and the hard drive hasn't failed yet. The only original part that has failed was a cooling fan for the cpu thanks to my pinky finger.

I also have a Compaq Ipaq 3600. I love it, but the OS on it is outdated so there isn't too much that can be done with it. The only complaint I have about that is the serious lack of battery life.

snessiram · #22 Post by **snessiram** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:56 am

christopher_wolf wrote:HP Printers are pretty much now the lifeblood of HP and most are pretty good, their cheaper scanners and printers, however, have had some problems...but, overall, their high-end is pretty good. I switched to a Canon scanner as well as a seperate Canon printer....

Used to have HP deskjet and HP scanner. Now both are replaced by canon. (printer: IP3000, scanner: SC5200, something like that)
Main reason is that the HP printer didn't print straight and the canon is cheaper (in use).

I also have a HP laserjet (black/white), that must be around 8 years old at least and still works perfectly.

@Miller88: Before getting my TP I used a compaq (PIV 2.6Ghz, 512ram,geforce mx 100/200) for around 3-4 years I think. I added firewire-card and ethernet card, a 80GB harddrive... Used windows xp, ubuntu and xubuntu... Everything just worked great and my system ran really smooth. It starts up in less then 1 minute (xp) and has no problem running 20+ windows at the same time (like I usually do, programs like firefox with +10 tabs, msn, ms word, winamp, magix video deluxe plus 2004, photoshop...).
PS: my compaq is now used by my brother
[edit]The compaq is a desktop[/edit]

Miller88 · #23 Post by **Miller88** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:44 pm

Its running XP now, works great. Can get a little sluggish; 1.1ghz isn't too great with multimedia stuff. But with 640mb of ram it's not terrible slow.

#24 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:16 pm

Thinkpaddict wrote:Yeah, RPN is great. You have two of the best all-time calculators: 15C and 42S. The prices at which these two go for in eBay is pretty incredible as well. I remember an eBay auction a few years back where a new in the box 15C went for around $1000.

In many respects I consider the classic HPs to be the Thinkpads of calculators. Great designs, sturdy, well supported, and the best keyboards in the business. It is just sad that they don't make them anymore.

You guys are just missing out on the best HP calculator ever: the 41C/41CV/41CX. The first flexible LCD calculator display, and the best calculator keyboard HP ever made, before or since. The Model M of the HP world!

I couldn't afford one in university but bought one on eBay maybe five years ago. It's not small but it works great on my desk, and still on the same batteries (no, I don't have a power supply for it). And if I'm on the road, I'll just run the V41 emulator on my X31.

#25 Post by **jdhurst** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:06 pm

tomh009 wrote:<snip>
You guys are just missing out on the best HP calculator ever: the 41C/41CV/41CX. The first flexible LCD calculator display, and the best calculator keyboard HP ever made, before or since. The Model M of the HP world!

I couldn't afford one in university but bought one on eBay maybe five years ago. It's not small but it works great on my desk, and still on the same batteries (no, I don't have a power supply for it). And if I'm on the road, I'll just run the V41 emulator on my X31.

I had a 41CV. I can't find it. I found the cards; I found my HP29C, but I cannot find the 41. I think it may have broken (leaking battery) and I probably turfed it. ... JD Hurst

#26 Post by **rkawakami** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:26 pm

I should have an HP-16C somewhere around here, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Maybe I should try harder now that I've checked the prices on eBay

.

I also have an HP-45 at home, but with a dead battery pack. I still should have the AC adapter somewhere; wonder if it is worth it to try to find another battery?

Have had an HP 5L laser printer for many years with the only problem being worn pick-up rollers going hard. Replaced them myself about 4 years ago and it still works fine. This is the workhorse home printer. The other HP printer is a HP1100d Business inkjet. No problems after 5 years and a second set of cartridges (don't use it all that much). Thought it was bulletproof enough to get another one for my college-bound daughter a year ago. Got a used one off of eBay which cost less than the four cartridges that it needed

. So far she hasn't complained about it.

#27 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:30 pm

jdhurst wrote:I had a 41CV. I can't find it. I found the cards; I found my HP29C, but I cannot find the 41. I think it may have broken (leaking battery) and I probably turfed it. ... JD Hurst

I'd like to get one of the older series -- 31E. 32E. 33E, 33C or 34C -- but the prices on eBay are insane: $100-200!

#28 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:39 pm

rkawakami wrote:I should have an HP-16C somewhere around here, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. Maybe I should try harder now that I've checked the prices on eBay .

I also have an HP-45 at home, but with a dead battery pack. I still should have the AC adapter somewhere; wonder if it is worth it to try to find another battery?

I think your HP-45 should fetch a pretty penny. It's got some historic significance -- the first use of the shift key -- but for some reason they don't seem to be in really high demand. I did see some battery packs on eBay, though.

rkawakami wrote:Have had an HP 5L laser printer for many years with the only problem being worn pick-up rollers going hard. Replaced them myself about 4 years ago and it still works fine. This is the workhorse home printer. The other HP printer is a HP1100d Business inkjet. No problems after 5 years and a second set of cartridges (don't use it all that much). Thought it was bulletproof enough to get another one for my college-bound daughter a year ago. Got a used one off of eBay which cost less than the four cartridges that it needed . So far she hasn't complained about it.

I can beat that: my LaserJet IIp is still running, though my brother has now inherited it.

Never had to do any service on it.

christopher_wolf · #29 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:50 pm

41C, I have seen those, always wanted one. I make good due with the 11C as it is one of the best pocket advanced scientific and engineering calculators I have ever come across. Now I see what the HP12 Gold is still popular as a business/financial calculator, it is a powerful system in a slim case.

I did manage to get a new battery for the 29C even when I had the adapter, wasn't easy though, so there should be a way to do it.

hobbes · #30 Post by **hobbes** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:31 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:41C, I have seen those, always wanted one. I make good due with the 11C as it is one of the best pocket advanced scientific and engineering calculators I have ever come across. Now I see what the HP12 Gold is still popular as a business/financial calculator, it is a powerful system in a slim case.

I'm still using the same 11C that I bought in 1985 and it still works like a champ. Never felt the need to get a new one. The batteries last forever on the thing as well.

HP and Compaq quality over the years

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