Desktop equivalent of T series

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gte204i · #1 Post by **gte204i** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:19 pm

Since my old desktop (Dell XPS-R400) broke, I'm looking into getting a new one. What would be the desktop equivalent of a T series?

Basically, who makes a solid, reliable, not filled with junk software, does everything it's supposed to and nothing it's not desktop computer these days?

Dell?
IBM?
Other?

Thanks for the input.

#2 Post by **K. Eng** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:35 pm

This probably belongs in the OT forum, but the answer is You... If you are willing to invest some time doing research on components and actually building the system.

I had a Dell Dimension XPS T (similar to R but with Pentium III) that I recently replaced. I spent about $400 in total for parts and built a modest desktop system:

Antec SX630II case (solid, steel case), Abit AN7 motherboard, Barton Athlon 1.83 GHz, 512 MB RAM, recycled my 7200 RPM drives and Radeon 9100 video card, monitor, speakers, & keyboard. It's far sturdier than most consumer midtowers, and my Windows XP install is just a genric OEM one - no junk.

gte204i wrote: Basically, who makes a solid, reliable, not filled with junk software, does everything it's supposed to and nothing it's not desktop computer these days?

#3 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:36 pm

Other.

Go to your local computer shop and have them put together a nice computer for you.
It will be made to the specs you want and it will have local service.
It won't be the cheapest computer you can buy but it will be better than the standard consumer level computers from dell, gateway, etc.
Just make sure you go to a reputable shop and don't buy the cheapest thing they offer.
I switched to custom built computers 5 years ago and I will never buy a pre-built computer again (except thinkpads).
My .02

gte204i · #4 Post by **gte204i** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:04 pm

K. Eng wrote:This probably belongs in the OT forum,

Oh yeah - sorry about that - I'm just so used to posting in this forum. Admin feel free to move.

G-Man · #5 Post by **G-Man** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:09 am

Moved. By the way, Dell has really good prices, but of course I would never touch a Dell. IBM's desktops are more expensive, but you can put together a really nice model for a reasonable price. Check out the ThinkCentre A Series. What's your price range? Do you play games (are you a hard core gamer)?

Regards,
G-Man

budder · #6 Post by **budder** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:12 am

I'm going to have to second the DIY route. I've always built my desktops because I could get the parts I wanted (down to the manufacturer), I would spend less money, and I would gain the increased knowledge and ability to fix many things myself.

The downside, of course, is time. It takes time to research what you want and then a couple more hours to build it, install an OS, and then install the programs you want to use. However, this means that you only get what you want, in terms of both hardware and software.

If you're willing to make the time investment, I would offer my help in researching/troubleshooting and would reccomend reading the forums at episteme.arstechnica.com and maybe checking out their reccomended systems if you don't feel like researching parts.

gte204i · #7 Post by **gte204i** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:28 am

Well it looks like DIY is the general consensus. It's too bad because I need something quick and really don't have the time right now. I may do something really cheap and then do it right when I do have the time.

I really don't have very many requirements. I'm not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination. I just need something for my wife to do some word processing and internet surfing. I just don't want to buy a piece of junk, either.

Thanks for all the input. I will look into building one myself when I get some more time. The link to the Ars Technica site was interesting reading.

#8 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:44 am

I just buy IBM Desktops. They are good, solid reliable machines. I had a PC-300 PL that is still running in the basement doing odd jobs that I purchased in 1999. I have a NetVista A30 as my main desktop that I purchased in 2003. Both machines run 7x24 non-stop and do yoeman duty. ... JDHurst

AssPenny · #9 Post by **AssPenny** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:49 am

To be fair and honest, for the most part, all retail desktops are pretty junky. My old compnay we used Dell, typical problems. Current compnay, we use ThinkCenters, typical problems.

Ive used them all and they are all junk. I would get something cheap and replace it often. Build your own if you have the skill. Or buy a slamming custom build (Alienware, FalconNW, etc..) if money isnt an issue.

The idea of one desktop being better than the other is pretty much a thing of the past, Bing Lin Chow Long Duck Dong is making the same parts for all the different brands. Lot of it comes down to customer support / warranty / software bundle.

Have fun!

gte204i · #10 Post by **gte204i** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:00 pm

What is the general consensus on e-machines - their lowest end model is $399 after rebate. I'm thinking this would fit the bill.

If it breaks in two years, I'll just buy a new one...

hausman · #11 Post by **hausman** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:38 pm

jdhurst wrote:I just buy IBM Desktops. They are good, solid reliable machines. I had a PC-300 PL that is still running in the basement doing odd jobs that I purchased in 1999. I have a NetVista A30 as my main desktop that I purchased in 2003. Both machines run 7x24 non-stop and do yoeman duty. ... JDHurst

Ditto here. My 300GL was bought used. Even though it's only a 400Mhz PII, it works well as a spare workstation.

I also have a NV A30 with P4-2.2GHz that's used for CPU intensive stuff. It works so well that there's no need to upgrade my TP A21p

IMO a low-end IBM or Dell Dimension will satisfy most non-gamers needs. They're cheap to buy and are reliable. Also when comparing a built-it-yourself rig to one of these PCs make sure to factor in the cost of a WinXP license.

#12 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:24 pm

hausman - I put a Powerleap 1.4Ghz Tualatin processor upgrade in the PC300PL. I had to make a setting change in the BIOS, but the upgrade took and works well. It is currently building rainbow tables, and I think it will complete faster than the normal time for these tables (about 8 months). JDHurst

hausman · #13 Post by **hausman** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:21 pm

jdhurst wrote:I put a Powerleap 1.4Ghz Tualatin processor upgrade in the PC300PL.

Thanks for the recommendation. It's intriguing.

But here's my quandary. My 300GL has 128MB RAM and a 6GB HD. According to PowerLeap's Canadian website ( http://www.powerleap.ca/Products/PL-iP3T.htm ), their upgrade will cost CA$165. But then I'd have to upgrade RAM and the HD.

Now IBM will sell me a new ThinkCenter A50 with Celeron 2.6GHz box, 256MB RAM (of faster DDR that's also cheaper to upgrade further than the 300GL's SDRAM) and 40GB (faster 7,200 rpm) HD for CA$399. What's more, I get a brand new box, with a 1 year IBM guarantee and WinXP Home preinstalled. Surely all that is worth the extra ~$185. (See http://caipsgws001.can.ibm.com/store/pa ... =IBM+STORE )

#14 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:28 pm

I agree with you. I did the upgrade over a year ago when it cost me $220 Cdn. But the machine had 448Mb of ram (still does) and has a base 13Gb hard drive which is enough for what I want. It is still running Windows 2000, which also is good enough. In your shoes, it makes much less sense. ... JDHurst

yukit · #15 Post by **yukit** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:12 am

gte204i wrote:What is the general consensus on e-machines - their lowest end model is $399 after rebate. I'm thinking this would fit the bill.

I believe Gateway owns E-machines now, but it probably makes no difference. You basically get what you pay for.

For a mid class configuration, AMD based system is the best value.

Come to think of it, my DVDRW cost more than my CPU/MB & 512MB RAM combined.

gte204i · #16 Post by **gte204i** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:55 pm

Thanks for the help guys. Given my time constraints and limited budget right now (while I'm a student again), I have bought an older Netvista from Overstock. I figured it would be better getting a good quality slightly outdated machine than a cheapo new one - especially since it is only needed for word processing and internet. Anyways, here are the specs

Netvista
P3 - 1GHz
256 MB ram (which I will upgrade)
30 gig 7200 RPM HD
DVD-ROM (may add a burner later)
I have no idea about the video card - not really important to me
Windows 2000

Anyways, I figured I couldn't go wrong for $270 - It doesn't appear, from the website, to be refurbished either - kind of strange that there would be a supply of these beasts new out there

#17 Post by **carbon_unit** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:13 pm

That is probably a better quality machine than any of the low end newer ones.

#18 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:21 pm

That's a good find. Go to the IBM PC Support site and put your model/serial number into the warranty section. If it had a three year warranty, there may be some left.

And with respect to the system, Windows 2000 will run happily on 1 Ghz and 256 Mb. For what you said you would do, don't spend precious dollars just now on memory. Use it for a bit. If you do something that demands more ram, you can always do it later. I had a small laptop once that had 192Mb of ram, and it ran Windows 2000, VMware (V3 series) and a virtual machine.

Once you get it, download and apply SP4 for Windows 2000, then put all the Windows patches to it. Make sure you have an AntiVirus/Firewall product, and download and install AdWare for free. Patch and update all this stuff, and you will be relatively secure. Make sure you have sturdy passwords for the Administrator account and any user account.

You have done well. ... JDHurst

benz · #19 Post by **benz** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:34 pm

jdhurst wrote:Make sure you have an AntiVirus/Firewall product, and download and install AdWare for free.

You might not want to install "AdWare", unless you enjoy being hammered by popups and viruses and crashes.....now AdAWARE on the other hand is what you're looking for.....

#20 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:24 pm

Thank benz - of course, I meant AdAware

gte204i · #21 Post by **gte204i** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:45 pm

If the machine will be behind a NAT hardware firewall, is there really any need for a software firewall. I have not been satisfied with the free offerings. I generally don't like the resources they use, and the rule based ones are too tedious to configure/maintain.

So I get that the purpose of the firewall would be to block OUTGOING connections, but Ad-aware, Spybot, McAfee should catch most of that stuff, right? I realize that the computer wouldn't be totally protected, but I think it would be reasonably protected. I'm really careful about what I do (and do not) download and install on my computer. I do not use Windows products for internet and e-mail (firefox & thunderbird)

#22 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:31 pm

You can probably get away without a firewall since you are behind a hardware firewall. I use BlackICE on my desktop (behind a hardware firewall). BlackICE is strong and is a good Intrusion Detection System, but it is much, much too difficult for the average user to figure out.
... JDHurst

#23 Post by **carbon_unit** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:45 pm

gte204i wrote:If the machine will be behind a NAT hardware firewall, is there really any need for a software firewall. I have not been satisfied with the free offerings. I generally don't like the resources they use, and the rule based ones are too tedious to configure/maintain.

So I get that the purpose of the firewall would be to block OUTGOING connections, but Ad-aware, Spybot, McAfee should catch most of that stuff, right? I realize that the computer wouldn't be totally protected, but I think it would be reasonably protected. I'm really careful about what I do (and do not) download and install on my computer. I do not use Windows products for internet and e-mail (firefox & thunderbird)

Adaware, spybot, etc will catch the things producing outgoing connections when you manually run them but you could easily pick up some spyware and it transmit some data before you catch it. A software firewall would stop the connection and alert you before the data is transmitted.
The firewall is watching all the time but the spyware removal proggys only run when tell them to.

Personally if I ran windows I would have a router and a software firewall. If I ran windows.

gte204i · #24 Post by **gte204i** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:09 pm

Right. I understand that there is a difference between the active protection of a firewall and the "passive" protection of spyware removers and virus scanners.

I'm just saying that is a risk I may be willing to take since

1) I run the scans very frequently AND
2) I don't download questionable stuff

BUT I may still decide that it is not worth the risk. My experience with software firewalls is that they are either

a) Ineffective
b) Too resource heavy OR
c) require too much investment to learn/configure for me right now

I still need to find a good firewall that is sort of a compromise.

benz · #25 Post by **benz** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:23 pm

I think the Firewall bundled with SP2 does a nice job, although I have never been attacked (to my knowledge) since I have been behind a router ever since I first connected to the internet (before I never ran any firewall software)

gte204i · #26 Post by **gte204i** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:26 pm

I had a Win98 computer with no anti-virus and no firewall behind a router (with NAT firewall) for years. It never had any problems as far as I know...probably because I only used to use web-based email.

#27 Post by **carbon_unit** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:31 am

gte204i wrote:I had a Win98 computer with no anti-virus and no firewall behind a router (with NAT firewall) for years. It never had any problems as far as I know...probably because I only used to use web-based email.

Me too.
I ran win98 with no firewall and anti-virus software from 1998 to 2002 and never had a problem but the internet is an ever changing entity.
Right now spyware and hijackers are the big things and you don't always have to download anything to get infected. Some websites will get you just by visiting.

I run a home town tech support business at night and this is what I spend most of my time doing, removing spyware and hijackers. It's bad out there if you are running windows and most people are, I see this stuff all the time.
It really is too bad that it has come to the point where you have to spend $50.00 a year and about 2 hours a week updating and scanning your windows computer just to be fairly safe on the internet.

Personally, all the computers in my house run Linux and my family does not know the difference. These issues are not a problem in my house. In fact I never get support requests at home, they just work.

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