First real problem with my new T60 - reason unknown!

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Muse · #1 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:22 pm

I don't know what's at play here. One of my programs is acting very screwy, one I'd think about the least likely to do so.

I use a "3rd party" email and newsgroup program, Forte-Agent, version 1.93, which came out about 2004. There are newer versions, but I'm happy enough with this version. One of the finest features of this program is that it's about as easy as it gets to move it to another location or system. It makes no entries in the Windows registry and is entirely self-contained in its own directory tree. You simply copy the tree to another location or computer and run the EXE and you are up and running.

However, when I do so with the Agent I use on my desktop system (Windows 2000) to my new T60, the program goes all screwy. People say they've had no problems running on XP SP2, so I know it isn't my OS version at fault.

Somehow, for some reason I find unfathomable, the program gets the wrong strings into fields, evidently from the INI file, agent.ini. As a consequence, incorrect entries are made to the INI file and the program is impossible to run. After the initial download of email, subsequent attempts to download fail. The wrong strings appear in fields in the configuration screens and 1/2 those screens, when accessed from the menu, appear for a split second and disappear. I posted in the Agent newsgroup (alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent) and so far no one can imagine why I'm getting this bizarre behavior. Does anyone have a suggestion concerning what might be at play here? TIA!

PS: Here's the thread I posted at the Agent newsgroup: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usen ... bd47631a68

#2 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:13 pm

Try booting into SAFE MODE and check the permissions on the folders and files of Forte-Agent by right-clicking on each and choosing the security tab. I have never used Forte-Agent, but it seems possible that if the permissions were lost in one or more of the folders or files, that may prevent you from running the program.

Another possibility is if you copied those files to a CD/R then copied them from the CD to the next machine, they are probably marked Read Only.

Muse · #3 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:49 pm

GomJabbar wrote:Try booting into SAFE MODE and check the permissions on the folders and files of Forte-Agent by right-clicking on each and choosing the security tab. I have never used Forte-Agent, but it seems possible that if the permissions were lost in one or more of the folders or files, that may prevent you from running the program.

Another possibility is if you copied those files to a CD/R then copied them from the CD to the next machine, they are probably marked Read Only.

Thanks. I tried to boot to Safe Mode (on my desktop system you press F8 during initial Windows boot) but what I got was the Thinkpad Rescue and Recovery utility. I see no "Safe Mode" in there and searching on Safe Mode in the help comes up with nothing. I scanned the R&R contents and didn't see anything that looked promising, so I chose "Restart." That's the only thing that seemed to make any sense.

I copied the files using a flash drive and I don't believe anything got marked Read Only, certainly not the agent.ini file, which appears to be the file that's getting read incorrectly. I know because I intentionally went in there and remarked the agent.ini file Read Only in order to prevent wrong information from being written into it. When I tried to run the program it said it couldn't open the agent.ini file, so I marked it readable again. I'm flumoxed.

The program is running, it's just not running correctly. It's acting as though it's misreading the INI file, coming up with the wrong strings when it goes to look for information.

#4 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:05 pm

Muse wrote:Thanks. I tried to boot to Safe Mode (on my desktop system you press F8 during initial Windows boot) but what I got was the Thinkpad Rescue and Recovery utility.

That does not seem like normal behavior to me. Normally it is F11 that brings you into Rescue and Recovery. Try turning the computer completely off, then turn on and press F8 about once per second until you get the SAFE MODE menu.

Another possibility is that you Forte-Agent is sharing a common file name with another program or else the path needs to be specified in the Environment Variables.

Muse · #5 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:31 pm

GomJabbar wrote:
Muse wrote:Thanks. I tried to boot to Safe Mode (on my desktop system you press F8 during initial Windows boot) but what I got was the Thinkpad Rescue and Recovery utility.
That does not seem like normal behavior to me. Normally it is F11 that brings you into Rescue and Recovery. Try turning the computer completely off, then turn on and press F8 about once per second until you get the SAFE MODE menu.

Another possibility is that you Forte-Agent is sharing a common file name with another program or else the path needs to be specified in the Environment Variables.

Thanks. I'm succeeding getting into Safe Mode now and the TP is booting.

OK, in Safe Mode, so far the program runs OK! At least I can get into the configuration screens and the correct (not obviously incorrect) data is in the various fields I'm looking at.

I cannot download email or newsgroup messages. I don't know if that's just because the TP is in Safe Mode or because of another problem. The message I get says there is an error loading the Winsock driver. Reason: WSAENETDOWN (Error 10050)

#6 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:55 pm

If you select "safe mode with networking" you should be able to connect. "Safe mode" (without networking does not enable network connections of any kind.

Muse · #7 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:12 pm

tomh009 wrote:If you select "safe mode with networking" you should be able to connect. "Safe mode" (without networking does not enable network connections of any kind.

Ah, thanks, I'll try that. I bet it will work fine. Back in ordinary mode, I'm finding that I can download mail and newsgroup messages, but the configuration screens are again going nuts. Inappropriate information in text boxes and some screens will only open for a split second and collapse (close) spontaneously.

Muse · #8 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:47 pm

Booting to Safe Mode with Networking is stalling at the "Checking the status of the embedded security chip..." screen. It's been 15+ minutes. It will get past this, right? I have not as yet done anything with the security or CSS (IIRC) other than scan my fingers and set up a Windows password. I have not yet accessed the BIOS and set up BIOS password.

Edit: Got past the security chip check...

Muse · #9 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:14 pm

The Agent application seems to work OK in Safe Mode (with networking). Well, what does this tell me? Any suggestions how I can suss out what's screwing things up? Is it possibly the CSS software? I see that at least some of that seems to be running in the present Safe Mode (I see some processes that look like it in Task Manager). I see that many people uninstall CSS, and I was thinking of doing so.

If I run Agent in normal mode the application data gets screwed up. While in Safe Mode I edited the data in the config screens and it seems to remain correct (i.e. exit and reenter the application and check the config screens and they look OK). I assume if I run in normal mode and open the application the data will get screwed up again, automatically as it were.

I presume there's something in the Thinkpad arsenal of programs that's interfering with my email/news client. Suggestions appreciated!

Gomjabbar - how might I set up an environment variable to resolve this? I know about them and have created them but don't know how that figures into this scenario.

#10 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:18 pm

You could try shutting down/killing the various apps one at a time, and trying Agent after each one to see which one is interfering with it. The first one I would try would be any antivirus software that you are running; after that, it could be almost anything.

Muse · #11 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:20 pm

tomh009 wrote:You could try shutting down/killing the various apps one at a time, and trying Agent after each one to see which one is interfering with it. The first one I would try would be any antivirus software that you are running; after that, it could be almost anything.

Thanks!! I'll report what I find, probably tomorrow. I'm attached to precious little on the machine. I figure to use a different AV than the preinstalled one, which is running. I've read quite a few posts about this type of thing -- how to determine what application is interfering with another, but I don't recall having this type of problem in the past, personally.

Muse · #12 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:32 pm

Closing down the IE window to this thread I got an error, perhaps a clue:

----------------------------------------------------
Client Security Solution
----------------------------------------------------

There was a problem connecting to a critical service. It is possible that anti-virus or firewall software is blocking the connection. Also, check to make sure that the TPM device driver is installed and enabled.

OK
----------------------------------------------------

Muse · #13 Post by **Muse** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:53 pm

tomh009 asked "What does the entire directory path to the .ini file look like? Did you try running it from a flash drive as well as from the hard disk?"

The path is:

c:\data\agent\data\agent.ini

I did try running from the flash drive and the same problems occurred.

Muse · #14 Post by **Muse** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:42 am

Today, Agent seems to be running OK from the flash drive. I thought it wasn't yesterday.

#15 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:08 am

Check that the original (W2K) path is the same as the new (XP) path.
If you installed your proggie on another drive-letter than it was on W2K, there might be a path conflict in that .ini file.
Have you tried running that program in Compatibility Mode?
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/usin ... ompat.mspx

Muse · #16 Post by **Muse** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:23 am

realblackstuff wrote:Check that the original (W2K) path is the same as the new (XP) path.
If you installed your proggie on another drive-letter than it was on W2K, there might be a path conflict in that .ini file.
Have you tried running that program in Compatibility Mode?
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/usin ... ompat.mspx

At the moment I have Symantec Antivirus and the Symantec Firewall disabled and problems are right now abated. I suspect it's the firewall. It's set to flip back on in 20 minutes. Don't see a way to reset that at the moment. Sticky little problem this. I don't think there's any pathing stuff going on in the INI file. The Agent application was written to be very portable and they didn't hardcode any pathing. If I continue to have problems I'll look into that compatibility mode. I will check it out regardless... that sounds interesting.

Assuming the problem is the firewall, it's OK. I was thinking of uninstalling it anyway and installing a free version of Zonealarm, the only firewall I'm familiar with.

It's looking to be the Symantec Firewall as the problem. I have it permanently disabled right now.

Agent is for the first time behaving "normally" on the TP. Granted, it's not the exact tree I copied over but I don't think that is important. Right now I'm using a fresh install with the data copied over, but I believe the significant thing here is that the firewall is disabled. Very likely I'll be uninstalling the firewall and installing Zonealarm in short order.

Muse · #17 Post by **Muse** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:20 pm

Well, my theory that it was the firewall was just shot to hell. I copied over the Agent tree again from my flash drive and it ran screwy whether the firewall was up or not. Only my fresh installation with the data copied over runs OK, firewall up or down. The reason escapes me.

#18 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:20 pm

Someone's comment on the latest version 4.1

Problems with loading and getting to run on XP Home. Needed to install as admin and run and config as limited users. Forte needs to address this problem from the install point of view. Kept getting access denied messages... had to call tech that I knew. Did anyone test this on the average PC for the average home user first?

Your 'oldie' must have even more problems. Try the compat-mode.

Muse · #19 Post by **Muse** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:11 pm

realblackstuff wrote:Snipped overly long, nested quote.

What is compat-mode? Is it a setting for Windows or Forte-Agent? Thanks!

Don't know that it's an issue, but I'm the only guy using the computer and I have administrator rights (Well, I think so! I'll have to check to swear by it, but can't see it any other way.). What's so crazy is that I'm not getting the types of errors you expect with applications, i.e. windows with messages, cryptic or otherwise. The errors are the most puzzling sort, the kind you almost never see, where information meant for certain fields in screens is winding up in other fields! That's nutty stuff.

#20 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:16 am

compat = Compatibility, see my previous post in this thread.

Muse · #21 Post by **Muse** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:30 pm

realblackstuff wrote:compat = Compatibility, see my previous post in this thread.

Oh, I see it now:

realblackstuff wrote: Have you tried running that program in Compatibility Mode?
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/usin ... ompat.mspx

Well, it's running now with the "new" install running the old data. If problems crop up again I'll try compatibility mode. Thank you!

First real problem with my new T60 - reason unknown!

First real problem with my new T60 - reason unknown!

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