Toughbook Y7/Y5 versus T6x

Message

pianowizard · #31 Post by **pianowizard** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:09 pm

sb37, that's fanTAStic! I still find it hard to believe that the Y7 can have all these great features and yet it's only 3.4 lbs, 0.6 lbs lighter than the minimally equipped Thinkpad 570E currently sitting on my lap (and scorching it big time too!). You will be the first forum member to have a Y7, and probably the second or third one to have a Y-series Toughbook. I look forward to your review.

Puppy · #32 Post by **Puppy** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:12 pm

The Panasonic keyboard layout is horrible. Even small size ThinkPad X keyboard is still better. As for weight, I'm wondering what is actually the real weight. As for T61, I'm waiting for T62 to see whether things can be improved (read, to be at least as good as T60

)

sb37 · #33 Post by **sb37** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:19 pm

I was a bit worried about the keyboard layout, but not so much anymore. I can just use some simple key mapping software to make the keys do what i want. It's not like I look at the keys when I type anyway. it also has a nice big enter key like UK keyboards, which I've always liked when I've used UK computers, so looking forward to having that. will post my experience with the keyboard and the international layout when I spend some time with the machine.

Tholek · #34 Post by **Tholek** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:15 pm

I've always wanted to demo one first hand.

Their tag line should be: "A laptop you could drool over....literally".

sb37 · #35 Post by **sb37** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:28 pm

i see you're in new york -- buy me lunch and i'll let you look?

Tholek · #36 Post by **Tholek** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:52 pm

sb37 wrote:i see you're in new york -- buy me lunch and i'll let you look?

*Looks in wallet*

You got a hot dog cart outside, by any chance?

#37 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:33 am

FWIW, you guys..

it's 5:35am and i want to get some sleep, so i cant read all the posts herein..

but i want to make two quick comments..

we have a user in japan who, i will bet, would be happy to send toughbooks to the US for a reasonable fee for his trouble..

toughbooks and thinkpads are obviously not in the same ballpark..
and this IS a thinkpad forum..!
but i see no reason not to let this thread go forward..

sb37 · #38 Post by **sb37** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:00 am

Thanks Bill! At least the original point of this point WAS comparing thinkpads to toughbooks; while it has veered a bit since then, I think that's still the general idea. Indeed, my choice was between a toughbook and a thinkpad, and any review I post will be in part dedicated to comparing the two devices. While the two machines are in different ballparks, the Ys are direct competitors to Thinkpads, since both machines are conisdered amongst the strongest and best-built laptops around.

bigtiger · #39 Post by **bigtiger** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:53 am

Hey, it is nice to know a direct competitor of TP. I enjoyed the Monkey Movies very much.

Please do post a detailed review of the Y7.

sb37 · #40 Post by **sb37** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:54 am

Y7 arrived yesterday. Still working out some kinks but liking it so far. Will post a full review in the near future.

RasmusP · #41 Post by **RasmusP** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:16 pm

It is really impressive what Panasonic have been able to fit into this laptop. I will look forward to your fully illustrated review

pianowizard · #42 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:17 pm

RasmusP wrote:It is really impressive what Panasonic have been able to fit into this laptop.

If they could make the 14.1" display UXGA, it would be a perfect laptop.

sb37 · #43 Post by **sb37** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:08 am

i've only been using it for one day, but it seems to be everything i was hoping for.

there's only one kink left now - can't seem to get it to go to sleep on battery, although it works fine when plugged in. Anybody have any ideas? Dynamism is looking into it, hopefully will have a fix soon.

Give me a week or so and i'll write up a full review w/ pictures.

RasmusP · #44 Post by **RasmusP** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:21 pm

pianowizard wrote:
RasmusP wrote:It is really impressive what Panasonic have been able to fit into this laptop.
If they could make the 14.1" display UXGA, it would be a perfect laptop.

I think UXGA is small enough as it is on my 21" UXGA screen

I have not had much time tweaking it, though.
-Rasmus

pangloss · #45 Post by **pangloss** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:29 pm

sb37 wrote:Give me a week or so and i'll write up a full review w/ pictures.

It's been a week!

In all seriousness, I'm also curious to know what video card the Y7 has. Dynamism says it's a Santa Rosa laptop but it doesn't look like it's using X3100 so far as I can tell. Also, is there truly no bluetooth?

sb37 · #46 Post by **sb37** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:10 am

sorry for the wait! i've been traveling so haven't reviewed it yet. i'll do it when i get home from work.

sb37 · #47 Post by **sb37** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:11 am

it runs the x3100 graphics card. it has no bluetooth, and no N wireless (it's the 965AG) despite panasonic's claim.

sb37 · #48 Post by **sb37** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:55 am

didn't get to finish the review, will work on it more today. in the meantime, feel free to throw questions at me if you have any.

#49 Post by **gator** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:07 pm

I am waiting for your review with pics

How hot does the machine run?

sb37 · #50 Post by **sb37** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:28 pm

it does get hot sometimes, particularly when on the high performance power setting, but it's not too bad. under normal cpu usage (web-surfing, word, etc), it doesn't get hot at all. the fan is super-quiet and you barely hear it, even in a quiet room.

furrycute · #51 Post by **furrycute** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:56 pm

I thought the Y series doesn't come with a fan?

And have you tried to upgrade the RAM yet? Is it easy to do?

What about the keyboard? Especially with regard to the right shift key's position and half size.

sb37 · #52 Post by **sb37** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:03 am

y's have fans, at least since the y5. i upgraded the ram to 2gb, and it was incredibly easy. review coming very soon...

schmaud · #53 Post by **schmaud** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:22 pm

Hi,

I was talking to someone with a w2.

He had bassically 2 issues with the system:

- odd shaped touchpad / no track point
- rather noisy CD-drive

same should apply to the Y-series.

But yes it is a very serious competition for the thinkpads.

ralf

pianowizard · #54 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:25 pm

schmaud wrote:- rather noisy CD-drive

There might be a "silent" option in the BIOS, just like for Thinkpads (some of which also have noisy optical drives).

sb37 · #55 Post by **sb37** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:42 pm

*WILL POST PHOTOS SOON*

Size, Weight, and Appearance

The size and weight are what drew me to the machine, and certainly are impressive. The machine really is about 3 pounds - you pick it up and can't believe there's a computer inside, let alone an extremely powerful one. The machine is rather thin, although it gets thicker towards the back which gives the keyboard a welcome pitch.

The computer is quite beautiful. I got the gunmetal grey color, which cost $100 more but I figured would add a nice touch to the machine. The design has a lot of nice touches, from the ridges in the cover to the round touchpad and

Durability, Heat, and Builid

The computer is fully amde of a Magnesium Alloy, and feels great and durable. The thing is so light that the first time you hold it it just feels like a plastic shell, but it is truly very well engineered. All parts are very firm, and there's no flex at all anywhere (as you might expect with 14" standard form factor).

Heat can be a bit of an issue. The machine gets hot on high performance mode and if you're doing some heavy lifting. Under normal use (word processing, web surfing, etc), it stays pretty cool. There's a fan, but it's very quiet. Since the thing is metal the heat really does conduct throughout the entire bottom-side of the unit. It has never gotten too hot to keep on my lap, but perhaps a game would bring it there. The heat seems to be coming exclusively from the CPU, not the hard drive.

Screen

I was apprehensive about the screen since I knew little about it, but I have been very happy with it. First off, since you're all wondering, it's very bright! I'm not quite sure what the nit rating is, but it is far far brighter than my T60P FlexView screen (both on brightest setting), and significantly brighter than my coworkers MacBook Pro on brightest setting. The viewing angles aren't great, but not terrible either. The screen doesn't give me headaches like the LG FlexView did.

The screen is a bit blue and is not quite as vibrant as the flexview. There is a fair amount of light leakage at the bottom, but you only notice it when you have a full black screen (ie widescreen movie). I'm very happy with the screen - even coming from a flexview. I also think that SXGA+ 14" screens are the ultimate form factor for mobile users, and am happy to have that back.

Performance - Speed

I've been rather impressed by the speed. It has a low-voltage L7300 Santa Rosa 1.4Ghz chip, which is meant to boost the battery life, and the max 2GB of RAM. I'm running Windows Vista without any speed trouble, and it runs the programs I need fine, and having them all open at the same time is not a problem (generally Photoshop, Zend Studio, Word, and Putty). Vista ranks the processor as a 4.6, memory as a 4.7, and hard disk as a 4.8. I believe these are comparable scores to my T60p, although I'd be lying if I said the speed were identical. I notice a significant difference in speed when performing truly CPU-intensive tasks (ie converting a video), but in daily use I see no trouble with the speed of the machine, at least for the time being.

Performance - Graphics

The graphics are fine - it is running the new Intel X3100 graphics; supposedly a new driver is coming out which will make this integrated chip even better. It runs Aero without any trouble. I do notice some weird artifacts when using an external monitor at UXGA resolution, but none of these problems on the internal display. I don't do a fair amount of gaming so can't comment there, but video looks great.

Battery life
I haven't tested battery to the max, but my best guess is a little over 5 hours in Windows Vista with Aero turned off and a dim screen. With a bright screen and Aero, i've been getting a little over 4 hours, which I'm quite happy with compared to my 2.5 on the t60p and 9-cell battery. I'm quite happy that the battery is quasi-internal - no sticking out like on the t60 with extended cell

The machine has an eco mode which I've been using - it doesn't allow the battery to be charged above 80 percent (hardware enforced). Supposedly this can double the battery life, although i'm not sure how accurate these claims are.

Keyboard and Touchpad
These are the least favorite parts of the machine, coming from a thinkpad. The keyboard isn't bad, but is a step down from the thinkpad. The keys don't have the same kind of feel and travel as you get on a thinkpad.

The Japanese layout is a bit annoying, but i'm slowly getting used to it. For the time being, I've been using it primarily in the office so with an external mouse and keyboard. Dynamism includes a keyboard map for the keyboard so the keys are what they say, which I didn't love, so i created a custom keymap using the MS Keyboard Layout Creator. I moved the position of the quotes keys, for instance, since we use them a lot more frequently than Japanese people. I replaced the Yen key with the British Pound, for instance, and changed a few other things so they're not what they say on the keyboard. I assume that I'll get used to these things as I use the keyboard more. It's easy to switch between keyboard layouts using hotkeys and the MS language bar.

The trackpad is very nice. It has a nice feel to it and its round-ness is actually a nice function --- you can use it like an ipod scroll-wheel to move up and down pages, which is really nice. The buttons are also really nice -- they have a really nice and firm click to them, which is something I found lacking in Thinkpads.

Expansion

I upgraded the RAM to 2GB in about 5 minutes -- it's just one screw on the bottom to lift the latch. I found the 1GB expansion RAM online for $128 -- surprisingly cheap, considering Dynamism charges 549 for it. I spent the extra money on a second AC adaptor (also not from dynamism -- i bought a y5 adaptor, which works fine) and a dock, which is backordered and hasn't arrived yet. It's the same dock as some y5s, but not the older ones (it's the BU, not the AU). The only difference, as far as I can tell, is support for gigabit ethernet.

Problems

The only real problem I've had with the machine is with sleep on battery power. It's not only my problem -- supposedly all of Dynamism's Y7 customers are having this problem, and they claim to be working on it and say they'll release a fix this week. Hopefully that will come soon, as it's quite annoying to turn the computer off rather than sleeping.

Hope this answers your questions. Please ask me anything else you'd like to know.

pianowizard · #56 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:58 pm

Thanks so much for the update. It's obviously a wonderful ultraportable laptop!

sb37 wrote:Under normal use (word processing, web surfing, etc), it stays pretty cool.

Sounds like it's cooler than the Thinkpad T60, which gets very warm even under normal use.

sb37 wrote:I haven't tested battery to the max, but my best guess is a little over 5 hours in Windows Vista with Aero turned off and a dim screen. With a bright screen and Aero, i've been getting a little over 4 hours

And it might last for over 6 hours in Win XP.

sb37 wrote:The keyboard isn't bad, but is a step down from the thinkpad. The keys don't have the same kind of feel and travel as you get on a thinkpad.

That's a very minor issue IMO.

sb37 wrote:The Japanese layout is a bit annoying

This is one of the two reasons I haven't bought a Y7. The other reason is money. I will need to wait until units with English-only keyboards are available.

sb37 wrote:I found the 1GB expansion RAM online for $128 -- surprisingly cheap, considering Dynamism charges 549 for it.

1GB PC2-5300 for $128???

sb37 wrote:The only real problem I've had with the machine is with sleep on battery power.

But can it hibernate okay?

sb37 · #57 Post by **sb37** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:24 pm

it can't hibernate or sleep on battery power at the moment. hopefully that will be resolved today or tomorrow.

#58 Post by **gator** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:01 pm

Thats a very nice review, sb37. Thanks for posting it ... I am really eager to see your pics.

You should consider submitting a review to notebookreviews.com!

furrycute · #59 Post by **furrycute** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:55 pm

Nice review.

Could the screen by any chance be an LED backlit display? Those screens a supposedly very bright. The just released Dell 1330 supposedly has a 330 nits rating.

And how are the colors on this Panasonic screen compared to the flexview?

MayaTlab · #60 Post by **MayaTlab** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:03 pm

Battery life
I haven't tested battery to the max, but my best guess is a little over 5 hours in Windows Vista with Aero turned off and a dim screen. With a bright screen and Aero, i've been getting a little over 4 hours, which I'm quite happy with compared to my 2.5 on the t60p and 9-cell battery. I'm quite happy that the battery is quasi-internal - no sticking out like on the t60 with extended cell

The machine has an eco mode which I've been using - it doesn't allow the battery to be charged above 80 percent (hardware enforced). Supposedly this can double the battery life, although i'm not sure how accurate these claims are.

Hello, can you explain us in what conditions you run this test of 4 hours ? were you using at the same time Photoshop, Zend Studio, Word, and Putty, as you wrote before ?

If I use only word without Wifi and bluetooth, screen at 1/3, can I expect to reach the six hours mark in your opinion ?

Thank you for your answer.

(Sorry for my english, it's not my mother tongue

)

Toughbook Y7/Y5 versus T6x

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