20" widescreens?

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snessiram · #1 Post by **snessiram** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:29 pm

I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions for 20" widescreens.

I currently own a macbook, thinkpad R60 and an old crt (XGA @ 85Hz) that ain't going to last long anymore. They are connected using firewire and I share an external keyboard and mouse between them.
Photo.

I'm into webdesign in my spare time and love using textmate on mac as my editor but I like having more lines of code on the thinkpad. I also love adium on mac (IM) but that takes up screen space again. The screen of the macbook is just too small (for when I'm at home).

I'm currently studying applied informatics and next year I might choose multimedia as specification (still doubting between multimedia and networking). Although I currently don't use it often I'm planning on working more in photo editing programs (mainly for site layouts in my case). I also love video editing (made a james bond movie with some friends a year or two back) but sadly I haven't spent much time doing so lately. However, I plan on doing it more often (my biggest problem is having an idea) in the future.

At this moment I use my thinkpad as my main computer in front of me. When I'm working on css (webdesign) I usually have e texteditor (only windows editor I could find that comes a little close to textmate, but I surely prefer textmate) on my thinkpad as wel as 4 browser windows and photoshop. This is the thinkpad + crt. On the macbook I mostly have mail.app, iterm (terminal + use of svn through terminal), local webserver (apache), cocoamysql and adium (webdesign is a hobby at the moment, I don't get paid so I don't need to focus on it fulltime) open, so basicly side stuff.
It works quite well but I would love to work with textmate and would love the extra screen real estate.

I now was thinking about buying a 20" external monitor to extend my mac screen so it would move the actual coding and photoshop work etc. to the mac. (as much as I love my thinkpad, I just really like OS X)
A 22" seems useless as it has the same resolution as 20" and 24" seems too expensive (and it doesn't have a vga port so I wouldn't be able to connect my thinkpad and although I don't initially plan to it's always nice to be able).
I'm also doubting about which panel I should get. I know TN is "bad", but it's also cheap and I'm not used to anything better. I recently bought my macbook which is another reason I don't want to spend a hell lot of money on a screen.

So today I went to some stores and the only monitor that interested me was a Samsung 205BW which has a TN panel (I haven't really played with it, I mainly wanted to see what the stores offered) and was priced at 260 euros. The 206BW is also available and 40 euros more expensive.

I think this also gives you an idea of my budget although I'm open to other suggestions and if it really is worth it I might raise the budget.

I personally like to buy at local stores (easy to go back etc) and have really good experiences with the store offering that Samsungs.

What do you guys think?

snessiram · #2 Post by **snessiram** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:22 pm

Guess you guy's aren't really into this kind of stuff?

pianowizard · #3 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:35 pm

snessiram wrote:A 22" seems useless as it has the same resolution as 20"

Exactly. 19" 5:4 LCDs and 22" WS LCDs are superfluous because they have the same resolutions as 17" 4:3 LCDs and 20" widescreens, respectively.

snessiram wrote:and 24" seems too expensive (and it doesn't have a vga port so I wouldn't be able to connect my thinkpad and although I don't initially plan to it's always nice to be able).

My Dell 2407WFP has both VGA and DVI. My T60 and R50p both drive it pretty well.

snessiram wrote:So today I went to some stores and the only monitor that interested me was a Samsung 205BW which has a TN panel (I haven't really played with it, I mainly wanted to see what the stores offered) and was priced at 260 euros.

I have used only one Samsung LCD, namely the SyncMaster 204B (20" 1600x1200), and it has horrible drifting ripples. Make sure you check for blemishes like that.

snessiram wrote:So today I went to some stores and the only monitor that interested me was a Samsung 205BW which has a TN panel (I haven't really played with it, I mainly wanted to see what the stores offered) and was priced at 260 euros.

That's too expensive. Do the stores have sale events? Wait for one of those.

ronbo613 · #4 Post by **ronbo613** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:22 pm

I have a Viewsonic 20" widescreen that I use for Photoshop, Premiere , Illustrator and Vegas and I love it.
The only advice I would offer is not to get an LCD with a TN panel, they suck unless you are playing games. Unfortunately, the cheaper and bigger LCDs all seem to have TN panels now, so it's tempting to buy one, but you'll be sorry.
Buying an LCD monitor at a retail outlet is a good idea. While I love my 20" Viewsonic, I bought a 22" Viewsonic(TN panel) at a local retailer, got three bad ones and finally demanded a refund. Getting a big monitor with a few red stuck pixels staring at you stinks.

snessiram · #5 Post by **snessiram** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:32 am

@pianowizard: Actually, 260 euros for that Samsung 205BW is cheap here (for store price), it's 300 in 2 other stores.
To give you an idea of prices: on this page (dutch) click "Toon resultaat" on the bottom right and you'll see some more prices.
I am eventually willing to buy second hand.

That dell you're talking about seems to be around 600, which is too expensive (offcourse I rather pay a little more if it offers a lot more like pixel count).

@ronbo613: which Viewsonic do you have?

Which non-TN 20" screens are out there and are they worth the price? (for example: 50 more for a 24" with higher resolution and equal quality wouldn't be so nice)

PS: Prices here are often around the same number as in the US, but it's euro instead of dollars so actually more expensive. (example: macbook: US: $1099, Belgium: €1049 = $1400)

#6 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:58 am

You may want to pop over to Switzerland. Prices there are a lot better, and their VAT is also quite a bit lower than Belgium.
Try this: http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php

pianowizard · #7 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:00 am

snessiram wrote:That dell you're talking about seems to be around 600, which is too expensive (offcourse I rather pay a little more if it offers a lot more like pixel count).

It has 1920x1200, which is awesome.

snessiram · #8 Post by **snessiram** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:57 am

@RealBlackStuff: thanks for the link, however I don't know if it's really cheaper. Looked up that Samsung 205BW I mentioned earlier which is 202 euros excl shipping, which probably would make the price the same as buying it in store here. The dell PW mentioned is 845euros.

@Pianowizard: I agree, it IS awesome... just not the price. I'm a student and with the macbook I bought recently I just can't afford it

.

ronbo613 · #9 Post by **ronbo613** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:19 pm

snessiram wrote:@ronbo613: which Viewsonic do you have?

I have the VX2025wm at 1680 x 1050. This model uses a P-MVA panel which produces pretty darn good color and contrast with an 8ms response time. Unfortunately, Viewsonic and many LCD manufacturers have gone to TN panels because they are fast and cheap, but have poor color rendition and contrast, bad for graphics and photo work.
S-IPS panels would be the first choice for graphics and photo editing but they are the most expensive LCDs by far. A PVA or MVA paneled LCD would probably be what you would want.
You can check out which monitors have which panels here:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

Turbo Audi · #10 Post by **Turbo Audi** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:46 pm

I think Kwoon knows everything there is to know about LCD panels. Period.

LCD/tech Guru should be your forum title.

pianowizard · #11 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:54 pm

Very funny, Pete. I am picky about resolution, that's all. Perhaps "resolution freak" would be an appropriate title for me!

#12 Post by **gator** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:23 pm

I am waiting for the day when PW buys the T221, and post pic for us to gawk and drool at. Seriously.

snessiram · #13 Post by **snessiram** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:31 pm

Thanks for the links ronbo613. I did a search on the tftcentral site but it only gave me your screen as an option (and it's only sold through ebay in the US). I also noticed that screen has fixed foot.
The other site I'm definitely going to use to look up info.

Mmmm, why don't I just buy that T221? Oh right, that's JUST above my budjet

(would love a post with pics like gator mentioned though

)

[edit]
I just looked at the Dell 2007WFP which has an S-IPS. (It's 380 euros for me). I do have a bad experience with a Dell screen but it probably is unfair to compare: my dad has a 19" Dell (came with pc, will be TN panel) and I find the colors truly awful.

ronbo613 · #14 Post by **ronbo613** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:01 pm

I purchased a Dell 20" LCD monitor some time ago because it had an S-IPS panel, but it was horrible, I returned it after looking at it for less than an hour.
That's the problems with LCD monitors, the quality really is all over the place, that's why you have to buy it at a place that will exchange it or give you a refund if you are not satisfied.

#15 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:16 pm

ronbo613 wrote:I purchased a Dell 20" LCD monitor some time ago because it had an S-IPS panel, but it was horrible, I returned it after looking at it for less than an hour.

Which model? Was it actually IPS? Dell is notorious for changing display panels inside the monitors without notifying anyone. Most of the 2001FP (which is what I have) are S-IPS, only the early 2007FP production is, the rest is PVA or TN.

ronbo613 · #16 Post by **ronbo613** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:20 pm

If I recall correctly, it was the 2001FP. Everybody gave it rave reviews, I reckon I got a lemon. That was in late 2006. These days, you never know what kind of panel you'll get with certain Dell monitors.
I've been told that when Dell sells monitors at a big discount(I think the one I bought was 25-30% off), they are unloading the tail end of a production run where the quality may not be as good as when they are first offered for sale. I can't say for sure if that's true or not, but I wonder what they do with all their RMA'd monitors.
I got a bad LCD monitor at Circuit City, exchanged it for another one that was worse and when I returned it again, I noticed there was a shipping label on the side of the box, somebody had mail ordered it and returned it to the retail store, they turned around and gave it to me hoping I wouldn't notice. That's when I asked for my money back.

#17 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:47 am

I think you pretty much have it right. If you bought the 2001FP new from Dell at the time, odds are it was a different (non-IPS) panel.

I'm thinking of getting a 20" for home, and I'm inclined to buy a used 2001FP to make sure I get an early production model.

#18 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:42 am

If you buy Dell, make sure you get their UltraSharp version!
They are the ones with faster reaction time and much better colours than the standard ones.
Avoid their basic models which start with an E as in E196FP

pianowizard · #19 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:10 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Avoid their basic models which start with an E as in E196FP

And I thought "E" meant "Excellent"!

#20 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:18 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:If you buy Dell, make sure you get their UltraSharp version! They are the ones with faster reaction time and much better colours than the standard ones.

Ultrasharp (like the 2001FP) should be better but be aware of how Dell manages the LCD panels and monitors so that what you get matches your expectations. Gory details here:

http://www.hardforum.com/printthread.php?t=1111100

#21 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:52 am

pianowizard wrote:And I thought "E" meant "Excellent"!

It's more like "E" for "Economy" or "Evil quality".

ronbo613 · #22 Post by **ronbo613** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:38 pm

It's tough shopping for a monitor when you don't even get to look at it. Generally speaking, if you get an S-IPS panel, that's about as good a chance as you have of getting a quality monitor, not to say there will not be any dead pixels, even on the highest price monitors, you just have to hope for the best.
It's a shame Dell has taken the low road on revealing which panels they use. I'd think long and hard before I shelled out a chunk-o-cash on one of their 24" or bigger LCDs when they won't even tell you what they are made of.

pianowizard · #23 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:50 am

ronbo613 wrote:If I recall correctly, it was the 2001FP. Everybody gave it rave reviews, I reckon I got a lemon. That was in late 2006.

I bought a 17" Dell SXGA monitor three months ago and I thought it was a lemon because it looked so fuzzy. Then I realized I had to press the Auto Adjust button. Are you sure that wasn't the problem with the 20" monitor you got?

Superego · #24 Post by **Superego** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:16 am

snessiram wrote: Mmmm, why don't I just buy that T221? Oh right, that's JUST above my budjet
(would love a post with pics like gator mentioned though )

Here's a link to some T221's if you want to see them.....they're definitely sweet!

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6391/ibmt221sft2.jpg

pianowizard · #25 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:38 am

Superego wrote:http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6391/ibmt221sft2.jpg

Take a look at this one:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Test/wilson/2xT221.jpg

That's very many desktop icons!

#26 Post by **gator** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:46 am

superego/PW, thanks for the pics. Using that monitor is one way to getting blind!

Here is another HUGE screenshot from the T221 to show the insane resolution of the monitor:

http://codehaus.org/~topping/screen.JPG

pianowizard · #27 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:57 am

gator wrote:Here is another HUGE screenshot from the T221 to show the insane resolution of the monitor:

That's an insane screenshot! Even on my Dell's WUXGA, I have to scroll a lot to see the whole thing!

#28 Post by **gator** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:01 am

I am surprised someone is using it for viewing code! I thought this was used only in very niche places.

Don't you need a converter box or something to drive this thingy?

Tholek · #29 Post by **Tholek** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:15 pm

Jesus. There should be a crowd of Japanese people running away from that.

20" widescreens?

20" widescreens?

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