What aspect of a laptop matters most to you?

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pianowizard · #1 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:10 pm

What aspect of a laptop matters most to you? Of course, the answer depends on whether it's a machine that you travel frequently with or one that you use mainly on your desk, whether you attach it to an external monitor or external hard drive, etc. For the purpose of this poll, let's just consider the laptop that you use most often. Also, let's assume that we are considering only relatively modern machines powerful enough for Win XP and all of the most popular applications (e.g. Office 2003/2007, iTunes, Photoshop...).

For me, I use my laptops mainly on a desk in my office, and I try to avoid relying on external monitors whenever possible. For such laptops, display resolution is the most important thing to me. When I travel, of course I want my laptop to be as light as possible, and in this case weight is the most important factor. But I travel with a laptop only about 3 times a year.

#2 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:25 pm

weight/durability.

#3 Post by **JaneL** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:28 pm

User interface (ie screen/keyboard/pointing device)

Purcy · #4 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:53 pm

I would have to say both the processor and the RAM, as I use several RAM intense apps. That being said, I look rather foolish owning a T22 but I love it.

#5 Post by **gator** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:17 pm

Purcy wrote:I would have to say both the processor and the RAM, as I use several RAM intense apps. That being said, I look rather foolish owning a T22 but I love it.

Purcy, according to me, the T2x is the neatest looking T-series, I don't think T2x owners are foolish in any way, infact they are conoisseurs!

As for the poll, my primary points would be to have a sturdy (but not too heavy), good looking, easy-to-upgrade-by-yourself design, interegrated with a good keyboard and great display. I hate computers that don't have a good screen!

Processors have become so advanced (and the baseline RAM is not 1 GB), even the entry level core 2 duos is very adequate for most buyers. I am not even to going to mention the insanely large amounts of HDD sizes available today (both internal and external).

#6 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:51 pm

All !

Puppy · #7 Post by **Puppy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:18 pm

Non-TN display, keyboard layout closer to standard PC keyboard

Turbo Audi · #8 Post by **Turbo Audi** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:36 pm

Battery life and weight. Hence my X60s.

Purcy · #9 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:32 pm

Turbo Audi wrote:Battery life and weight. Hence my X60s.

Pete, are you really considering joining the Army/Airforce, like your signature says?

Purcy · #10 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:36 pm

gator wrote:
Purcy, according to me, the T2x is the neatest looking T-series, I don't think T2x owners are foolish in any way, in fact they are conoisseurs!

Why thank you Sri. Yes, I am a conoisseur of fine vintage things

#11 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:44 pm

No one thing stands out as most important. I need small size, light weight, fast hard drive, fast CPU and two spindles.

As this point, I don't want wide-screen but that may change. Everything else is negotiable when I work out specs for a new machine.

The T23 has the best overall form factor, size and weight. My T41 is currently very adequate for my needs.

The next machine does not exist. It will be a T23 with fast CPU, good graphics and Vista. Like I said, such, sadly, does not exist.
... JDH

Turbo Audi · #12 Post by **Turbo Audi** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:38 pm

Purcy wrote:
Turbo Audi wrote:Battery life and weight. Hence my X60s.
Pete, are you really considering joining the Army/Airforce, like your signature says?

Oh yes!! I see you missed this thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=44618

Pretty sure about the Air Force. As of now I would like to be at BMT by Xmas!

Don't worry I'll keep y'all posted.

Purcy · #13 Post by **Purcy** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Turbo Audi wrote:
Oh yes!! I see you missed this thread:

Yup, I sure missed that one, just read it. I am proud of you Pete; and Mike is a good one to look up to.

I really admire the PC you built, that is impressive. I must say, you cleaned your room!

Stargate199 · #14 Post by **Stargate199** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:17 pm

I can't choose. The RAM, CPU, graphics chip, the screen, and the pointing device are big selling points for me. The RAM and HDD I can upgrade easily, the other stuff not so much. Any laptop that I buy have one requirement, it MUST BE A THINKPAD!

Website · #15 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:39 pm

I voted for weight, but that isn't really true...I just enjoy the overall "portability" of laptops/notebooks. I don't really care about the weight, unless it is a 20lb laptop.

I just like the fact that I can take it to the basement with me to use while watching something on my big screen tv....and to travel with.

skitty4gzus · #16 Post by **skitty4gzus** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:10 am

all this shopping for a new TP has me leaning towards screen size, resolution, aspect ratio. man i sure wish they made a flexview in the new t61!

#17 Post by **rkawakami** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:33 am

I think you missed a choice in the poll, but one that is not easily quantifiable... and that is "ruggedness". (I initially was going to say "reliability", but that should be a given). I don't mind not having the fastest T7700 processor, nor 4GB of DDR2 memory, the light weight of an X41, or even a 160GB 7200rpm hard drive. What I want from my system (okay, systems) is something that gets the job done, day in and day out, despite being handled roughly or treated without some minimum amount of care (not that I would do this, mind you!). I want a laptop that turns on even after being shipped halfway cross-country in a box just big enough to contain it and one layer of bubble wrap (a T23 in a USPS Flat Rate box, what else?), being dropped on a corner hard enough to crack the back panel around the DC input jack AND break a tab off the hinge cover, yet it still works correctly.

If left to choose from the existing aspects, then I would have to go with "battery life". Even though I almost always use my laptops plugged into an AC adapter, it's nice to be able to go outside (like I did today), sit in the backyard for an hour with an X22 and search eBay.

pianowizard · #18 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:44 am

jdhurst wrote:The T23 has the best overall form factor, size and weight. My T41 is currently very adequate for my needs.

I am surprised that you like the T23 more. The T41 is practically the exact same size, but is slightly lighter and of course more powerful.

rkawakami wrote:I think you missed a choice in the poll, but one that is not easily quantifiable... and that is "ruggedness".

I started with 5 more choices and "ruggedness" was indeed one of them, but I got a "You entered too many choices" error.

leoblob · #19 Post by **leoblob** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:24 am

keyboard and display

SHoTTa35 · #20 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:44 pm

Well there are too many in there that matter. For me tho it's:

Screen - gotta be nice if i'm staring at it all day.
Weight - gotta be light if i'm carring it all day.
Battery - well.. you get the idea

CPU a lil and RAM yeah but not so much as the above.

#21 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:25 pm

pianowizard wrote:<snip>
I am surprised that you like the T23 more. The T41 is practically the exact same size, but is slightly lighter and of course more powerful.

I am not wanting a T23 - I want the T23 form factor. It is noticeably smaller in width and depth, and is the same thickness as a T41 and also the same weight (within a few grams). I had a T23, then a T30 (thicker and heavier) and I was mortified when I got my T41 to find that it is wider and deeper than is reasonable and barely fits in my briefcase. Any machine a millimeter wider and a millimeter deeper is not going to fit. The T23 fit with room to spare.
... JDH

#22 Post by **gator** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:59 pm

jdhurst wrote: I am not wanting a T23 - I want the T23 form factor. It is noticeably smaller in width and depth, and is the same thickness as a T41 and also the same weight (within a few grams). I had a T23, then a T30 (thicker and heavier) and I was mortified when I got my T41 to find that it is wider and deeper than is reasonable

I completely agree 100% with JDH on this, I have fallen in love with the T2x series after I started using my T22 ... It is slightly smaller than the T41 (though very slightly thicker), but it feels great to handle, the weight is distributed very evenly. And it is much more rugged than the T41, and looks nicer than any thinkpad I have owned, including my T60.

I like the T2z form factor very much, I am selling my T22 to upgrade to a good T23.

qviri · #23 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:29 pm

processor - not really, anything is fast enough. If I was running Solidworks (not unlikely in three years' time), maybe
RAM - can be upgraded, 1 GB is enough unless you're a Photoshop junkie or run Vista
hard drive - can be upgraded
video card - of no relevance to me right now. If I was running Solidworks, maybe
display (aspect ratio, resolution, Flexview, etc.) - quality, brightness, etc, yes. Resolution is not that important, just don't give me a 15" with an XGA. I am ambivalent as to aspect ratio - widescreen looks "cuter", but I have more use for vertical size than ability to work with two documents side by side. A thing that'd be awesome to have would be a widescreen display that can be swivelled into portrait mode as the notebook is running.
weight - yes
presence of an internal optical drive - no
pointing device (trackpoint? touchpad? both?) - trackpoint, yes. Also keyboard is important.
battery life - yes. The more the merrier.

Other stuff not in the poll:

ease of upgrade and dismantling - self explanatory. Switching out a hard drive is three minutes. Love it.
connectivity - I'd have liked to have gigabit in my X31. For wireless, strength of connection is more important than speed, I'll be doing file transfers while plugged in anyway.
overall smart design - this covers ease of upgrade mentioned above, but also things like the docking connector. I love that I can buy a dock, put a PCI card in it (hence doing away with a desktop), then plop both an X21 and a hypothetical T43p in it. (My friend with a Macbook Pro frequently hears about that one.) I love the interchangeable power adapters. The *60 series are a notable and unfortunate departure. (Seriously, what was the need for changing the power adapter?)

#24 Post by **gator** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:36 pm

qviri wrote: I'd have liked to have gigabit in my X31. <snip>

(Seriously, what was the need for changing the power adapter?)

Some X31 models indeed came with Giagbit ethernet - I had an X31 that did (2673-Y13).

Matt had a really good article about the need to change the power adapter for the *60 series here:
Why did my power adapter change?

qviri · #25 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:36 pm

gator wrote:Some X31 models indeed came with Giagbit ethernet - I had an X31 that did (2673-Y13).

I am aware of that - my comment was about my specific laptop. I'd have liked to have Gigabit, but with the limited availability on the used market in general and in Canada in particular 10/100 Mbit was an acceptable tradeoff for the price I paid.

gator wrote:Matt had a really good article about the need to change the power adapter for the *60 series here:
Why did my power adapter change?

Hmm, good to know that the article was written, but I'm still not entirely convinced.

As someone pointed out in the comments, the 16 V bricks ran P4-Ms, and CD/C2D use less power than P4-Ms. Video cards stayed put at best. They also quoted "standards like HD audio", yet HD audio chips do not use more than 3 W of power. The power consumption of notebooks as a whole has been, generally speaking, constant in the past few years, save for extremes like P4-M or ULV chips.

The point about resistance in the cord is acceptable, though my X31 cord does not get warm at all, so I doubt it was the pushing factor.

What probably happened is the production of two types of adapters was merged, and it was merged into the Lenovo line rather than the IBM line even though there are more IBM power adapters that could be reused out in the world. This seems like a design/management decision that Lenovo has later found acceptable engineering reasons for, rather an decision caused by engineering reasons.

I'm glad that they changed the plug after they decided on the voltage change, but I'm not convinced about the voltage change.

Meh, just a small rant.

#26 Post by **gator** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:46 pm

I think the idea behind changing adapters was to maintain the charging time for the batteries (which had improved in capacity a bit). Older adapters might have been compatible, but charging times would have been higher, and people would have complained non-stop.

I am shooting in the dark here, I might be 100% wrong. Can sometone confirm this?

anthean · #27 Post by **anthean** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:00 pm

Ultimately, there are just three categories here, and my own preference, from most important to least, is as follows:

1. Portability (weight, form factor, battery life, reliability and durability under mobile use)

2. User interfaces (display, keyboard, and touchpoint)

3. Performance (CPU, video card, hard drive, and optical drive)

qviri · #28 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:02 pm

gator wrote:I think the idea behind changing adapters was to maintain the charging time for the batteries (which had improved in capacity a bit). Older adapters might have been compatible, but charging times would have been higher, and people would have complained non-stop.

I am shooting in the dark here, I might be 100% wrong. Can sometone confirm this?

Changing the battery depends on watts, not volts, but that is a valid reason for increasing overall laptop power consumption (when charging, at least). Larger power consumption can be one of the reasons for upping the voltage due to efficiency reasons.

So yes, it's one of the reasons why higher voltage is a good thing. Was it the driving reason for the change? I doubt it, but I'm not going to try to convince everyone on Earth one way or the other.

#29 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm

qviri wrote:Changing the battery depends on watts, not volts, but that is a valid reason for increasing overall laptop power consumption (when charging, at least). Larger power consumption can be one of the reasons for upping the voltage due to efficiency reasons.

do you mean Charging?

Charging the battery depends on watts, not volts?

I'm not a Phd student in solid state electronics like gator, but volts does have something to do with it.

http://www.absak.com/tech/power_factors.pdf

qviri · #30 Post by **qviri** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:36 pm

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