I saw my first flexview screen today and WOW !!!

[wearetheborg]

Its gorgeous !! The 3.5 year flexview UXGA screen is even better than my 1 year old dell WUXGA 17" screen.
The blacks are really black, and the whites are really white. On the dell, the blacks are great, but the whites are a bit yellowish (I only noticed this now comparing it to the flexview).

I CANNOT belive there wasnt enough of a demand for IPS screens.

Oh, and the flexview is 1000000000000 times better than the T4x SXGA+ screens.

[gator]

Welcome the club. Now you know why we keep talking about the flexviews all over here.

[wearetheborg]

Welcome the club. Now you know why we keep talking about the flexviews all over here.

I thought I knew, seeing how my dell WUXGA screen was so much better than the T4x SXGA+ screens.
I expected the flexview to be similar in quality to the WUXGA.

I was wrong. On one hand I'm at having obtained such a screen. On the other I'm as they dont make such screens anymore.

[pianowizard]

wearetheborg, I assume that's the R50p you just bought?

The R50p's UXGA-IPS screen is excellent. I have no clue why I had such a hard time selling one for $139 a while ago.

[wearetheborg]

wearetheborg, I assume that's the R50p you just bought?

The R50p's UXGA-IPS screen is excellent. I have no clue why I had such a hard time selling one for $139 a while ago.

Yup, its the R50P. The screen is really good. There is only one bright area near at the right edge about an inch long. Only apparent on black background, and at high brightness settings. Otherwise its perfect

[ulrich.von.lich]

I wonder if all flexview UXGA screens are identical in A31p, T4xp and T60p, and how long their life usually is.

I'm thinking of getting a used A31p. The owner says its screen is in mint condition, however the machine was bought in 2002. That's 5 freaky years. I heard the life cycle of LCDs is about 3 years under intensive use, and then you'll have to replace the light bulb. Can it be done easily? I'm afraid of buying something that is about to break.

[Harryc]

Welcome the club. Now you know why we keep talking about the flexviews all over here.

I don't have anything meaningful to add to this thread except to say that I own (3) Thinkpads and they have all flexview LCDs. This was not a cooindicental occurence .

[beeblebrox]

I wonder if all flexview UXGA screens are identical in A31p, T4xp and T60p, and how long their life usually is.

I'm thinking of getting a used A31p. The owner says its screen is in mint condition, however the machine was bought in 2002. That's 5 freaky years. I heard the life cycle of LCDs is about 3 years under intensive use, and then you'll have to replace the light bulb. Can it be done easily? I'm afraid of buying something that is about to break.

An LCD screen can run 10 years without problems, only the lamp will die after a few years. Replacing is easy if you know how to do it. There is a company that replaces the light tubes when you send in your Thinkpad. LCD4less or so, I forgot...

Technology advances, the first Flexviews (IPS) where [censored]. The most modern one is, for instance, the Apple 30" Cinema Display, which is a S-IPS. Fantastic display, but a litte bit too much IPS sparkling in my opinion.

Have a look at S-PVA displays, I like them better.

[dr_st]

Technology advances, the first Flexviews (IPS) where [censored].

But still better than anything in the TN/VA department at the time.

Now, it seems that S-PVA is technology that seems to (almost) catch up with S-IPS in terms of colors, angles and response time. Add the advantage in contrast in the S-PVA, and you get a good competition going. I take back a statement I made some time ago about S-PVA not being on par with S-IPS - it seems that it is. The differences are quite small.

[beeblebrox]

Technology advances, the first Flexviews (IPS) where [censored].

But still better than anything in the TN/VA department at the time.

Now, it seems that S-PVA is technology that seems to (almost) catch up with S-IPS in terms of colors, angles and response time. Add the advantage in contrast in the S-PVA, and you get a good competition going. I take back a statement I made some time ago about S-PVA not being on par with S-IPS - it seems that it is. The differences are quite small.

There is a HUGE difference:
- the major manufacturer of IBM's IPS displays was little BOE Hydis. Think about production volume, delivery and price.

- the major manufacturer of PVA's is SAMSUNG, think about quality, R&D, production volume and price.

The 24" iMac C2D has a Samsung PVA, which is fantastic. Great contrast and colors are really ok!

My colleague's old A31p Flexview died in yellow ghosting shades after only 3.5 years, out of warranty of course.

[dr_st]

The 24" iMac C2D has a Samsung PVA, which is fantastic. Great contrast and colors are really ok!

My colleague's old A31p Flexview died in yellow ghosting shades after only 3.5 years, out of warranty of course.

The problem isn't Boe-Hydis and its size. IBM/Lenovo would go with any supplier that would produce IPS/PVA panels for laptops, I'm sure. In the past they worke with BOE, LG-Philips and IDTech. Surely you are not going to claim that LG-Philips is a lesser brand than Samsung. I, for one, never considered Samsung quality to be all that high, based on several types of their accessories I owned. Maybe with panels they are better, though.

The point is that no manufacturer was willing to invest into high quality panels for laptops. If Samsung was willing to produce PVA to replace the IPS panels, Lenovo would jump on it, I'm sure.

As a technology, when you consider the overall package, IPS was always the superior of the three, because it would produce the most consistently good image, which is the most important part of a monitor. Only now PVA is catching up.

[ajkula66]

Having had more A31p machines than most people see during a couple of incarnations, along with other FlexView ThinkPads, here's my $0.02:

I have a supplier with a large stock (hundreds) of late-generation, hi-end A31Ps, that they unload a few at the time, every once in a while. Personally sold well over two dozen over the last year, all over the map-from Switzerland to Ukraine to Israel. All the ones that I've sold are still up and running, period. No LCD issues.

Went through about a dozen of R50Ps over the last six months, and these babies are pushing 3+ years now. Apart from occasional pressure mark or two or five, no reported LCD issues there either.

My opinion, simply enough, is that the Flexview machines are no more gamble than a regular ThinkPad when it comes to LCDs, and are overall of a better build quality than their peers. And it costs pretty much the same to replace a bulb in an A31P as it does for a T23...

[beeblebrox]

The 24" iMac C2D has a Samsung PVA, which is fantastic. Great contrast and colors are really ok!

My colleague's old A31p Flexview died in yellow ghosting shades after only 3.5 years, out of warranty of course.

The problem isn't Boe-Hydis and its size. IBM/Lenovo would go with any supplier that would produce IPS/PVA panels for laptops, I'm sure. In the past they worke with BOE, LG-Philips and IDTech. Surely you are not going to claim that LG-Philips is a lesser brand than Samsung. I, for one, never considered Samsung quality to be all that high, based on several types of their accessories I owned. Maybe with panels they are better, though.

The point is that no manufacturer was willing to invest into high quality panels for laptops. If Samsung was willing to produce PVA to replace the IPS panels, Lenovo would jump on it, I'm sure.

As a technology, when you consider the overall package, IPS was always the superior of the three, because it would produce the most consistently good image, which is the most important part of a monitor. Only now PVA is catching up.

Well, when you go on Philips's website about their technology they say that IPS has proven to have the best color reproduction. However the contrast is poor.
On the other hand PVA based tech has only very good color but very intense contrast reproduction.
I like IPS screens, but they are not good for laptops. Too heavy and energy sucking by nature.
Desktop LCDs in S-IPS and S-PVA are drop dead gorgeous.
I am not a gamer, so I don't care about TN displays, but for notebooks TN is still the way to go. Nothings beats them, it all depends on TN quality which can be extremely different, e.g. a big gap between El Cheapo ACER screens and the great Sony X-Black.

[wearetheborg]

Well, when you go on Philips's website about their technology they say that IPS has proven to have the best color reproduction. However the contrast is poor.

Thats wierd. I've founf the flexview screens to have the best contrast ratio. Blacks are black, whites are white.

[ajkula66]

I guess that it comes down to what you get used to. Personally, nothing beats FlexViews in my book. I still have to see a laptop with better picture, colours and contrast, including the new Lenovo widescreens...

When Z series came out, a friend of mine bought a high-end one, paid an arm, leg and a kidney for it and brought it to my house to make me suffer...well that's what he intended anyway...Nice. Fast. Different...

However, when we placed it on the same table with one of my A31Ps and watched a pretty elaborate (that's probably an understatement of the millenium) presentation created by my wife on both machines at the same time, about 2.5 minutes into the presentation he just slammed the lid of his laptop and said: "This piece of...... is now going back!" and walked out. Some time later he bought a T60P with FlexView, and as difficult as it is for me to admit it, that is a better FlexView than the original one, period.

To each his own. I'm sticking to FlexViews. And will get a T60P with one someday soon.

[pianowizard]

a T60P with FlexView, and as difficult as it is for me to admit it, that is a better FlexView than the original one

Do you remember how bright that T60p's screen was compared to your A31p's? I've used five Thinkpad Flexview screens and all of them were slightly dimmer than standard Thinkpad screens. The caveat is that all five screens were 3 or 4 years old. Perhaps newer Flexview screens are brighter.

[wearetheborg]

Do you remember how bright that T60p's screen was compared to your A31p's? I've used five Thinkpad Flexview screens and all of them were slightly dimmer than standard Thinkpad screens. The caveat is that all five screens were 3 or 4 years old. Perhaps newer Flexview screens are brighter.

Arnt u'r new QXGA screens also flexview ? How do they compare in brightness ?

[pianowizard]

Arnt u'r new QXGA screens also flexview ? How do they compare in brightness ?

Yes they are Flexview and they are among the five Flexview screens that I referred to. Both QXGA seemed unused when I bought them, but they were probably made three years ago. All five were/are equally dim. They aren't "very very dim" as someone complained in another thread, but certainly dimmer than most other non-Flexview Thinkpad screens I've used, e.g. my T42's 14.1" UXGA screen.

[ajkula66]

T60P's screen was brighter, and deeper in comparison to A31P...

It is supposed to be that way, too, at least to a degree:that's the only FlexView that has a different contrast ratio (500:1 as opposed to 400:1 on all the others), and is definitely the best laptop screen I've seen.

Being someone who has had new FlexViews (both new from factory and replaced under warranty) I feel that the lack of brightness PW refers to has more to do with our eyes than with reality, although it's hard to be objective on that one...FlexViews, IMHO don't "jump" on you the way regular LCDs do...but that's probably just me...

[dr_st]

Well, when you go on Philips's website about their technology they say that IPS has proven to have the best color reproduction. However the contrast is poor.

Poor is a relative term. So, yeah, it's 300:1 and not 700:1. Looks really bad on paper, but I have never found a single task where the contrast level provided by IPS panels wasn't enough. Just because there isn't as much headroom, doesn't mean you actually suffer from it.

I am not a gamer, so I don't care about TN displays, but for notebooks TN is still the way to go. Nothings beats them, it all depends on TN quality which can be extremely different, e.g. a big gap between El Cheapo ACER screens and the great Sony X-Black.

I can't agree with this. I think TN is crap, pure and simple. I am sitting in front of one right now, and it's hard to comprehend how bad it is compared to IPS/VA. Yeah, it consumes more energy, but the difference is insignificant (compared, say, to the difference between an integrated and an dedicated video adapter), so it is not an excuse not to put them in laptops.

Thats wierd. I've founf the flexview screens to have the best contrast ratio. Blacks are black, whites are white.

The poor contrast ratio of IPS beeblebrox is referring to is only compared to VA. TN has even worse contrast.

I've used five Thinkpad Flexview screens and all of them were slightly dimmer than standard Thinkpad screens. The caveat is that all five screens were 3 or 4 years old. Perhaps newer Flexview screens are brighter.

Screens, all screens, tend to get dimmer with age. But then again you say that your QXGA screens were old but unused, so I don't know...

My (half a year old) Flexview is about the same brightness than my (3 months old) non-Flexview screen, and both are somewhat brighter than the screen on my GF's X32 (~2 yr old). My old (~2yr old) Flexview screen was slightly dimmer compared to my GF's X32 screen (which was ~1-1.5yr old at the time).

Being someone who has had new FlexViews (both new from factory and replaced under warranty) I feel that the lack of brightness PW refers to has more to do with our eyes than with reality, although it's hard to be objective on that one...FlexViews, IMHO don't "jump" on you the way regular LCDs do...but that's probably just me...

There may be something to it. When you look at a TN screen, colors, contrast and brightness shift greatly with the angle. From lower angles it looks dark, from upper angles - very bright.