XP Start Menu VS Classic Start Menu

Message

teknoT42 · #1 Post by **teknoT42** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:56 am

Hey All

I was just writing to ask people, what is the point of having the XP Start menu over the classic one?
Please vote too with your opinions
I think the classic one is more compact..

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:48 am

The new XP start menu reminds me of Fisher-Price. I watch people use it, and never once have I seen anyone be more effective or productive with the new menu than with the Classic menu. I alway set up client machines with the Classic menu. ... JDHurst

JHEM · #3 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:17 am

teknoT42 wrote:I think the classic one is more compact..

IMHO it's also more user friendly, particularly for those who are newbies or not up to the level of user knowledge enjoyed by most on the forums.

Regards,

James

sktn77a · #4 Post by **sktn77a** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 am

I guess we're just a bunch of old Luddites!!!

lfeagan · #5 Post by **lfeagan** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:21 am

Good lord, I can't even imagine using the new Fisher-Price menu. In fact, I have only clicked on it for about an hour the first time I saw Window XP just to see if I liked it. Never touched it since then in years. Even when working on others computers if I hit Start and see it, I immediately go down and right-click on the taskbar and change the properties.

One of the more awful ideas ever was that new "look". And I don't agree that it is more helpful for noobies at all. It hides a lot of things and makes you hover to reveal them. I know from teaching that this digging around for things it forces you to do is not a good thing. Personalized menus are not helpful to people who even use a computer everyday. They find them frustrating as they know a menu is there but they "can't find it".

As a final note, there have been extensive studies done showing that textual interfaces that have *nix style man pages are far more effective at getting people up to speed doing tasks than graphical interfaces are. If you ever see a graphical person try to move from one graphical desktop to another you see them struggle a lot. If you see someone move from one shell, OS, etc to another with textual interfaces you typically see them being able to help themselves and translate their knowledge much more effectively. The thing we can note here is not only that textual interfaces are superiour. But also that people who use graphical interfaces get programmed for one mode of thinking and are not able to help themselves as writing help/man pages for graphical interfaces is in fact far more onerous a problem than writing good help for textual interfaces is. This is one of those cases where a picture being worth a thousand words cuts both ways and in fact makes it quite difficult to describe how to perform a variety of actions in different situations. I find many users have great difficutly with "Windowing" if the situation is not identical to the one just shown to them on a video or by another user. Knowledge doesn't seem to translate as well because things on graphical desktops "look different" so easily. Working at a console removes this layer of abstraction that hides things from the user and hinders their uptake of new information.

SCURaja · #6 Post by **SCURaja** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:36 am

i consider myself a power user.. and i used to always switch the ui to xp's classic style.. HOWEVER i found that whenever i used another computer.. being it a friends, co-workers, customer site (hospital and their data-centers). i found that they would run wth the xp-style turned on. After a while it gets irritating to constantly change the ui .. so i switched my themes to the xp-style and after a while of using it.. its not that bad... in terms of speed.. i use keyboard shortcuts anyway.. ie: windows +r or what not..so that doesn't slow me down..and it lists your mostly frequently run programs..which isn't that bad.. IF windows had a choose your look 'n feel option during login..(like some linux's) then i would be a happy camper..but until then..xp-style is the way i'm going..

JHEM · #7 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:09 am

lfeagan wrote:And I don't agree that it is more helpful for noobies at all.

The contention, in my post above, is that the classic interface is more user friendly, not XP's.

Or were you referring to M$'s contention that the XP interface is more user friendly?

Regards,

James

lfeagan · #8 Post by **lfeagan** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:55 am

Ah, whoops, yes, I misread. Sorry about that.

k3vb0t · #9 Post by **k3vb0t** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:58 am

Classic is so much easier to use. One of the first things I did with my new T42... and who decided to remove My Computer from the Desktop? Definitely put that back on there. Love the classic... hate how the new style hides everything behind menu after menu.

Different strokes, different folks.

none · #10 Post by **none** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:44 pm

I would have to be an oddball and vote NEW menu.. The classic one was awesome, and I've used it for the longest time even after I got XP..

But then I had to set up a whole bunch of machines with the new menu, and got a chance to get used to it. It's actually pretty good, why with putting your most frequently used apps on the front and all.

RCube · #11 Post by **RCube** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:45 pm

One of the main reasons why I use XP style is because I hide all my icons on the desktop(my computer, etc). And also when you have programs running, you can't access those icons anyways unless you minimize the programs. One of the way to get around this is to have the XP style start menu.

Plinkerton · #12 Post by **Plinkerton** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:59 pm

I'm still used to the classic style, but force myself to use XP. It's newer so it must be better right?

I immediatedly added the My Computer to the desktop, and also added the Control panel link in the my computer, which is a nice touch. It's still taking some getting used to, but I'm starting to like it. I like the most recent programs openend thing. That's been helpful when I actually remember that it's there.

So, as much as i like classic, I'm voting for XP for now. I love the cartoony stuff though. It makes my computer FUN AND EDUCATIONAL...

Of course, I do use the SkribblesKids theme for Firefox.... I guess there's something to be said about that...

I'm just a kid at heart...

EDIT: Wow, I just switched to classic, for old times sake, and I think I much prefer XP. It just has a nice feel to it.

teknoT42 · #13 Post by **teknoT42** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:49 pm

RCube wrote:One of the main reasons why I use XP style is because I hide all my icons on the desktop(my computer, etc). And also when you have programs running, you can't access those icons anyways unless you minimize the programs. One of the way to get around this is to have the XP style start menu.

What's the point of having a desktop in that case?

Elhabash · #14 Post by **Elhabash** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:05 pm

I got the new style. With a little tweaking (change the control panel, for instance!) you can just do more things with it. In combination with the desktop and the Quicklaunch it's quite powerful.

I also have to disagree that textual interfaces are usually more efficient. They are only if you use commands you use all the time, and it's not very intuitive in most cases. There's a reason Xerox invented the desktop, and why it conquered most of the computer world.
I agree that the textual component is not pronounced enough in XP, but at least there's keyboard shortcuts...

Anyways, the desktop metaphor is in dire need to be reformed after decades of use! XP is not really that...

#15 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:14 pm

I suppose it depends how you organize your start menu. Mine is highly organized and the main flyout occurs in less than one column. Everything is there. You have to hunt and peck with the new style to find anything. Organized not hidden is vastly faster that disorganized hidden (which describes the new menu). I get use to every new OS that comes along including Linux, but not this new menu

JDHurst

Conmee · #16 Post by **Conmee** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:10 pm

Long live the command line!!!! lol

I use Classic. And you have full control over whether My Computer/My Docs, etc, and other default icons shows up or not through Display Properties|Desktop|Customize Desktop regardless of whether you use the XP or Classic menu. For even more control, install PowerToys and you can pretty much add/remove anything from anywhere. lol

As for GUI v. *ix shell, the fact of the matter is that you have to have a better command of computer OSes and how they function and how to achieve a particular task when using a command line or shell than you do when using a GUI and pointing to an icon or opening a menu/window. In other words, folks that like to know the inner workings of one machine, by analogy, will know the general area to look in when doing a similar task on another machine via command line.

Command liners are just more pro-active and knowledgeable, as a general rule, than folks that rely on GUIs. However, that doesn't mean that a command line proponent like myself, doesn't prefer using a GUI for the vast majority of mundane computer tasks. Just means that when I encounter a problem or computing obstacle, I have more tools/options at my disposal, and I'm not so easily discouraged or unable/unwilling to 'figure it out' as a GUI-only person might be... lmao

Daniel.

RCube · #17 Post by **RCube** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:31 pm

teknoT42 wrote:
RCube wrote:One of the main reasons why I use XP style is because I hide all my icons on the desktop(my computer, etc). And also when you have programs running, you can't access those icons anyways unless you minimize the programs. One of the way to get around this is to have the XP style start menu.
What's the point of having a desktop in that case?

good question. I don't see the point of it other than to display a wallpaper when I am not using the computer....
But when I am working I hardly ever see my desktop.

#18 Post by **jdhurst** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:29 pm

There is one remaining tool out the old Windows 95 powertoys set that works anywhere including XP and that is the DeskMenu. I always work in large but never maximized application mode so I can always see some desktop. But if things get out of control (and they do) I click on DeskMenu in the system tray and it shows me every icon on the desktop. It is the obverse of the QuickLaunch icon to minimize everything to show the desktop. ... JDHurst

jacob · #19 Post by **jacob** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:55 am

XP/Personalized menu is horrendous. It seems to always do the exact opposite of what it is intended to remedy (finding and launching apps faster).

It ranks pretty high up there with office assistant as "helpfull" UI elements that are more of a hindrance than help. I wish Microsoft would stop trying to be clever sometimes.

RCube wrote:
One of the main reasons why I use XP style is because I hide all my icons on the desktop(my computer, etc). And also when you have programs running, you can't access those icons anyways unless you minimize the programs. One of the way to get around this is to have the XP style start menu.

What's the point of having a desktop in that case?

I use my desktop as a "to do" list mostly.

think · #20 Post by **think** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:36 pm

I use the classic one, but a I use it very rarely.

You can easily add access to "my computer" in the Taskbar!; just right-klick to it and choose Symbol...((something), i dont know how its being translated into english, cause I´m not using the english-version of XP)
.. in the Sub go to "new Symbol...(?)" add "my Computer".
Click at the two arrows and you have quick acces to your HD, including network Drives, Combo and everything else you placed in there (e.g. control panel

etc.), in the Taslkbar.
Depend on your menu-speed you can scan your drive really fast;
(or just add the Startmenu-folder to the Taskbar, its a lot quicker)

You can also add Address-Bar to the Taskbar by just checking the mark, you got a command-line in the Taskbar.
(I don´t use that cause my File-Manager has one)

So, plus some Shortcuts and a good File-manager (whatever), you don´t need to use the Start-Button that often.

Know anybody a way do get rit of it, that works?

Plinkerton · #21 Post by **Plinkerton** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:58 pm

Just to add to what think said about the My computer addition.

Here it is in english

:

Right click on the taskbar, go to TOOLBARS, and then NEW TOOLBAR. Choose My Computer and click okay. There it is.

Thanks for that tip by the way. i didn't know I could do that.

#22 Post by **K. Eng** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:36 pm

I use classic. It's more compact and cleaner. I also disable themes

lvlolvlo · #23 Post by **lvlolvlo** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:13 am

SCURaja wrote: IF windows had a choose your look 'n feel option during login..(like some linux's) then i would be a happy camper..but until then..xp-style is the way i'm going..

I totally agree with that. I hope Longhorn does it, although haven't seen anything like that thus far...

zzyss · #24 Post by **zzyss** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:47 am

One symptom of using the XP skin is that when you press ctrl-alt-del it will bring up Task manager instead of the screen with the buttons to log off, lock computer, task manager, etc.

This is particularly annoying because to lock my computer, I either have to use the button on that screen, or use Win+L. But hold on, TP's don't have a Windows key!

(yeah, yeah, I know you can make some software widget to do it, but I'm too stupid).

Elhabash · #25 Post by **Elhabash** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:39 am

Start the Keyboard Customizer Utility. There you can assign a key as the windows key. It works most of the time...

monty cantsin · #26 Post by **monty cantsin** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:40 pm

zzyss wrote:One symptom of using the XP skin is that when you press ctrl-alt-del it will bring up Task manager instead of the screen with the buttons to log off, lock computer, task manager, etc.

This is particularly annoying because to lock my computer, I either have to use the button on that screen, or use Win+L. But hold on, TP's don't have a Windows key!

I placed an icon for that on a toolbar next to the start menu, so it's a one-click solution. Basically, you just have to create a shortcut that executes the "rundll32.exe user32.dll,LockWorkStation" command. The "shell32.dll"-file even comes with a nice lock symbol (icon no. 48) that you can use as a graphical representation of the shortcut.

A step-by-step guide, also discussing some alternatives, can be found here:

http://www.jsiinc.com/SUBK/tip5000/rh5002.htm

RCube · #27 Post by **RCube** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:19 pm

think wrote:I use the classic one, but a I use it very rarely.

You can easily add access to "my computer" in the Taskbar!; just right-klick to it and choose Symbol...((something), i dont know how its being translated into english, cause I´m not using the english-version of XP)
.. in the Sub go to "new Symbol...(?)" add "my Computer".
Click at the two arrows and you have quick acces to your HD, including network Drives, Combo and everything else you placed in there (e.g. control panel etc.), in the Taslkbar.
Depend on your menu-speed you can scan your drive really fast;
(or just add the Startmenu-folder to the Taskbar, its a lot quicker)

You can also add Address-Bar to the Taskbar by just checking the mark, you got a command-line in the Taskbar.
(I don´t use that cause my File-Manager has one)

So, plus some Shortcuts and a good File-manager (whatever), you don´t need to use the Start-Button that often.

Know anybody a way do get rit of it, that works?

why not just add the "Desktop" to your taskbar? You get everything...which is something I did before when I used the classic start menu.

But anyways, I don't see whats so bad about the new one...it is faster than the classic in most cases...less mouse movement if you click on start.

Plinkerton · #28 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:23 am

Woah. RCube, that kicks [censored]. I want the Satan computer too. How do you make it black and red like that?

RCube · #29 Post by **RCube** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:43 am

Plinkerton wrote:Woah. RCube, that kicks [censored]. I want the Satan computer too. How do you make it black and red like that?

hahaha, "satan computer"

man I use black because it is high contrast and easy to read even when I have the thinkpad at a bad angle. :p

If you are interested:
1. patch your uxtheme.dll
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=140707

2. download and copy the theme into your
C:\WINDOWS\Resources\Themes
http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=224469

Plinkerton · #30 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:34 am

Sweet. I got the Satan Theme going.

One question, my folder of "Microsoft Office Tools" under "all programs" in my start menu, for some reason is red. It's the only one. It's a little strange. Also, when I mouseover it, and the files inside that folder pop up, they're all red also. None of the other ones are.

This theme is cool, but the only thing I don't like is that it seems to shrink everything down. I have it on "full" in the settings, and it's still all tiny. The fonts seems a little smaller, and so are the window boxes in the upper right corner.

Is that normal? I guess it could be a "feature" as it gives you more overall screen space, right?

Thanks though, I'm keeping it for now.
Plink

XP Start Menu VS Classic Start Menu

XP Start Menu vs Classic Start Menu. Which one?

XP Start Menu VS Classic Start Menu

Re: XP Start Menu VS Classic Start Menu

Who is online