Was I ripped off? What should I do

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ahammad · #1 Post by **ahammad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:58 pm

This is in reference to this:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5+t40+sold

I do have a tracking number, but it only says that USPS were electronically notified to expect a package for mailing. This does not mean that the package was actually dropped off at USPS.

Payment was made on Jan 23. Tracking number was received on Jan 24. I asked a question about the wireless card as well as the fact that the tracking number not giving me any info. I received an email from him on the 27th, but he only answered the issue about the wireless card.

I sent three emails since then asking about the shipping info. No answer yet.

I filed a claim with PayPal. I'm not sure what else to do...what do you guys think?

Also, would you guys help me compile some good information from this site to help my case so that PayPal can make an informed decision?

DoctorLondom · #2 Post by **DoctorLondom** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:08 pm

The tracking issue is normal, he must have printed a shipping sticker online, so USPS doesn't know when it went out. Their "tracking" is really awful.

I'm guessing from Miami, FL To Ottawa, Canada would take some time, and it is usually held at customs for a little while. Maybe wait another week?

ahammad · #3 Post by **ahammad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:12 pm

DoctorLondom wrote:The tracking issue is normal, he must have printed a shipping sticker online, so USPS doesn't know when it went out. Their "tracking" is really awful.

I'm guessing from Miami, FL To Ottawa, Canada would take some time, and it is usually held at customs for a little while. Maybe wait another week?

I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt, and I haven't escalated the claim to a dispute because of that. The only thing that gets me is that he doesn't answer at all. USPS told me to contact the shipper and have him open an investigation to check if the item was lost during shipping, but I cannot even do that...so I'm not sure.

He has no feedback anywhere, but nothing he has done prior to the sale indicates that he was trying to rip me off...lack of communication though is enough to make anybody fell this way...

kosse · #4 Post by **kosse** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:38 pm

DoctorLondom wrote: I'm guessing from Miami, FL To Ottawa, Canada would take some time, and it is usually held at customs for a little while. Maybe wait another week?

Ordinary USPS Priority Mail International should take 6-10 business days and it seems to stay within these limits even when shipping to distant places like Finland. Now I don't know how the customs works in Canada but I've been notified on the next day that the package has arrived in my local customs office in my country. So, I believe the package should have arrived a long time ago if anything hasn't gone wrong..

ThinkPad · #5 Post by **ThinkPad** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:41 pm

My guess is that the package is still at customs. Then again the member you bought from has not been here long and is not known.

SaberX · #6 Post by **SaberX** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:06 pm

Ya i had a number of thinkpads mailed up from the USA.
The tracking is realy strange.Most of the time the usps tracking will just say "item picked up".It would say something like that for days.
The shipping time is also strange.Most times it will take two full weeks or longer.(including weekends).

This is why when ever i look at getting a laptop sent up i ask the seller if they could send it by USPS express(3 to 5 days)Witch is about a week.It will cost about 13.00 to 18.00 more on top of the shipping.is well worth it.

Give it another week.

ajkula66 · #7 Post by **ajkula66** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:12 pm

I've had stuff travel to Canada for like three weeks although it has been sent Priority Mail International...

On another note, you should contact the admins and see when was the last time the member in question logged in.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Website · #8 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:31 pm

I am a little worried about that FS ad, since in one breath he says that he is willing to trade it for a PC, and then in the EDIT on 1/23, he states that he needs to pay bills.....interesting...

brentpresley · #9 Post by **brentpresley** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:32 pm

I've shipped stuff all over the world using USPS. This is completely normal.

The ONLY time you get realtime tracking is if you shell out the big bucks and pay for Express shipping.

Oh, and surprisingly, shipping to Canada takes longer than it does to anywhere but Africa and the Middle East. I honestly think they open up every single package going either direction across the border.

scosgt1 · #10 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:12 am

Well actually:

If one uses online or PayPal shipping, you just get that electronic notification info.

However, lately USPS has improved the system, and at the point it his a regional center, there WILL be a scan (sometimes). If it hits a border and is turned over to Customs, there SHOULD be a scan.

All that being said, you will win a claim. Ebay requires a tracking number that shows that the item has actually been shipped. With USPS, that requires handing it over to the clerk at the Post Office.

ahammad · #11 Post by **ahammad** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:24 am

I didn't think much of the edit where he says he needs to pay bills...maybe he wanted a desktop at first but ran short on cash and needed to get rid of the computer.

As for the shipping, still says "Electronic Shipping Info Received" and the seller still hasn't replied to the claim (it has been 3 days). Maybe he shipped the computer and he now has nothing to check emails with

So how long do you guys think that I should wait before escalating it to a dispute and let PayPal decide what's going to be done? I have 17 days remaining, otherwise the case will automatically be closed.

Thanks for all the tips

ajkula66 · #12 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:58 am

Personally, I'd give it two more business days and escalate it to the dispute.

Once and again, USPS may very well be to blame, but you want to be on the safe side...

Good luck.

brentpresley · #13 Post by **brentpresley** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:54 am

scosgt1 wrote:Well actually:

If one uses online or PayPal shipping, you just get that electronic notification info.

However, lately USPS has improved the system, and at the point it his a regional center, there WILL be a scan (sometimes). If it hits a border and is turned over to Customs, there SHOULD be a scan.

All that being said, you will win a claim. Ebay requires a tracking number that shows that the item has actually been shipped. With USPS, that requires handing it over to the clerk at the Post Office.

Sorry Scott,
But having shipped over 1000 packages internationally last year via USPS, I can confirm that this "local scan" at the regional center happens less than 5% of the time.

The good news is that if Canada Post scans it on delivery (which they are pretty good about even if it isn't an Express package), the seller would win the Paypal dispute (the eBay and Paypal rules are slightly different, even though they are technically the same company). They only require confirmation of DELIVERY, nothing else.

brentpresley · #14 Post by **brentpresley** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:55 am

ahammad wrote:I didn't think much of the edit where he says he needs to pay bills...maybe he wanted a desktop at first but ran short on cash and needed to get rid of the computer.

As for the shipping, still says "Electronic Shipping Info Received" and the seller still hasn't replied to the claim (it has been 3 days). Maybe he shipped the computer and he now has nothing to check emails with

So how long do you guys think that I should wait before escalating it to a dispute and let PayPal decide what's going to be done? I have 17 days remaining, otherwise the case will automatically be closed.

Thanks for all the tips

I would give it 2 weeks. I think anything quicker than that and you are not giving it reasonable time to be delivered.

#15 Post by **underclocker** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:18 am

My 2 cents, $275 isn't an insignificant amount, but why not scam someone for $700 with a fictitious T60/T61?

I think the T40 will arrive, eventually.

CRAZYBUBBA · #16 Post by **CRAZYBUBBA** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:27 am

You must escalate the claim with paypal or it disappears. Escalate it one day before it is set to dissapear,.

syedj · #17 Post by **syedj** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:50 am

CRAZYBUBBA wrote:You must escalate the claim with paypal or it disappears. Escalate it one day before it is set to dissapear,.

I agree, paypal gives only so many days before they automatically close the claim case. You should escalate the claim to dispute a couple of days before it expires. The only bad thing is all this process takes time during which the money is stuck with paypal.

Sorry for the trouble and good luck with it.

Website · #18 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:57 am

underclocker wrote:My 2 cents, $275 isn't an insignificant amount, but why not scam someone for $700 with a fictitious T60/T61?

I think the T40 will arrive, eventually.

They might have actually taken a picture of a system that they had. If they scam someone for the $275, and then actually sell the T40 on eBay, they are getting close enough to just add some cash and buy a T60/T61.

All this being said, it is still possible that this is legitimate. To support what brentpresley said, I shipped numerous items a few years back while printing my own labels, to save money, and the USPS NEVER scanned them when I dropped them off, unless I specifically requested that they do so.

I had negative feedback on eBay, on an item that got lost (actually severly delayed) at the PO. The buyer argued that I never dropped it off at the PO, because they didn't scan it. For some reason it took 2 months to be delivered with a note from the PO indicating that there was a error on their part. The buyer saw that the postage was dated the date that I said it was, and he kindly withdrew his negative feedback. (That doesn't happen often).

And that is my .02. (By the the way, if we keep adding our .02, you might recover the cost...lol)

smidgley · #19 Post by **smidgley** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:52 pm

You should be concerned. I bought the same T40 from this guy and guess what? Same story, a shipping label was created but the USPS has no record of it being in their possession. It was supposed to be shipped Priority Mail, which would have been delivered here on Jan. 28, nearly two weeks ago.

He did reply to one email, though.

I have have charge-back pending with my credit card company.

scosgt1 · #20 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:04 pm

If I am reading this properly, it appears he sold the same system TWICE?

I have done hundreds, in fact probably thousands of deals. I ALWAYS ship over the counter, so I have proof that I actually shipped the item. I also ALWAYS send the buyer the tracking info as soon as I fill out the Sig Con label.

Communication is the key to good transactions.

In this case, it appears to me that there is something to worry about. If I pay for something, and I don't have tracking info in 24 hours, I worry. Most of the times I had to worry wound up being a PayPal claim (which I have always won) for non-shipment.

Sellers are well advised to never use PayPal or Internet shipping, make sure you have the USPS or UPS clerk scan in the package so you can prove you shipped, and immediately send the info to the buyer.

All that being said, I would escalate the claim right now. If the seller refuses to maintain contact with the buyer, that is a very bad sign, and his own fault if there is a chargeback on something it turns out he did ship. He took the money, he is responsible to maintain contact. And again, the business about the same system being sold twice???

smidgley · #21 Post by **smidgley** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:09 pm

Yes, unless the seller had multiple ThinkPads, he sold it (at least) twice.

wogeboy · #22 Post by **wogeboy** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:37 pm

Do you have an address or ph contact#?

SaberX · #23 Post by **SaberX** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:41 pm

wow I cant belive there are still people that will pull a scam like that.

I like to tryout difrent thinkpad,and have bought and sold a few on here.
But i think for now on i will only deal with people on here that i have delt with befor and have a good tursted name here.
there are a bunch of resellers for thinkpads on here i will trust 100%.
If they dont have a system at the time in my price range i'll just wait to they have one.
Let us know the outcome of this deal.

scosgt1 · #24 Post by **scosgt1** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:49 pm

The one additional comment I have to make is that the person seems to have had only 7 posts here when advertising that system.

Not that a new entrant is automagically bad, but with that lack of experience I would probably ask for an Ebay reference or verifyable contact info.

#25 Post by **underclocker** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:51 pm

underclocker wrote:My 2 cents, $275 isn't an insignificant amount, but why not scam someone for $700 with a fictitious T60/T61?

I think the T40 will arrive, eventually.

I stand corrected, I couldn't even imagine the scam of selling the same item multiple times, that would certainly improve his "take".

I hope PayPal comes through and I'm sorry to hear that people have had such a hassle.

Also, while hindsight is 20/20, I just re-read the ad and there were at least a few things that stand out as inconsistent or cause for concern;

1) new forum member selling an item with no previous track record
2) selling item equipped better and for less than pretty much any previous T40 -> $275 is below market
3) wrote "PRICE REDUCED I NEED THE MONEY I GOT TO PAYBILLS", but also wrote "I still have it im also willing to trade for a Nice Desktop!"

#26 Post by **Harryc** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:08 pm

Clickpoint may have completed a transaction with this member. Ask him for address details -

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#373678

ajkula66 · #27 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:30 pm

scosgt1 wrote:

I have done hundreds, in fact probably thousands of deals. I ALWAYS ship over the counter, so I have proof that I actually shipped the item. I also ALWAYS send the buyer the tracking info as soon as I fill out the Sig Con label.

Communication is the key to good transactions.

Ditto here. Additionally, I've just remembered one thing: there is NO delivery confirmation on Global Priority Mail packages, to Canada or anyplace else for that fact. The only way you can sometimes track the package is through the customs form serial number, but that doesn't always work.

Escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim NOW.

#28 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:32 pm

i agree with the consensus, escalate paypal dispute ASAP..

also, his ip is mia.bellsouth so at least thatn mpart is correct..

does anyone here have more contact info for this fellow..

FWIW, i too have sent global priority mail packages all over the world..
the tracking on these is pretty non-existant..
there is still a small parcel lost in australian post..!

but usually things get there in a pretty timely manner..

now, for brent presley's little remark about taking a gun and demanding the cash in person..
we all know that brent occasionally goes off half cocked (pun intended) and this was one of those times and we all know no such thing will ever actually happen..

lots of growling going on over this comment and i think its time to move forward and with this bum of a forum member..

i leave it to the agrieved party to say that he wants this seller banned..
just let me know..

and lets all get the info we have and compile it here..

pianowizard · #29 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:04 pm

underclocker wrote:wrote "PRICE REDUCED I NEED THE MONEY I GOT TO PAYBILLS", but also wrote "I still have it im also willing to trade for a Nice Desktop!"

But notice that the opening post was edited 7 times, with the last edit made on Jan 23rd. The "I GOT TO PAY BILLS" could have been added after the "willing to trade" comment made on Jan 11th.

ahammad, I hope that you will either receive the laptop eventually or get most of the $ back (you won't get all because PayPal charges $25).

kosse · #30 Post by **kosse** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:05 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Ditto here. Additionally, I've just remembered one thing: there is NO delivery confirmation on Global Priority Mail packages, to Canada or anyplace else for that fact. The only way you can sometimes track the package is through the customs form serial number, but that doesn't always work.
Escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim NOW.

This is a bit offtopic and I'm not sure if this is what you are after but there is a way to track packages for example while in Finland at http://www.posti.fi/english/eservices/i ... index.html (it's in English!)

You can see that the X61s you sold me was delivered in my city. Even the name of the customs official who received the package in the first place is there. I think most European countries propably have similar tracking..just need to know where to look for the service.

Anyway, hopefully the thread starter will get his money back..these scams disgust me. Gladly I live in a small country and it's impossible to get away with that here

Was I ripped off? What should I do

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