Conversation with a T23 eBay seller

[rkawakami]

Take a look at this first:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ebay/eBay_190199506977.pdf

and then you'll probably understand why this conversation took place:

Hi! What's the full seven character type number from the bottom of the system? It should start with 2647- or 2648- and have three more characters. Thanks!

our warehouse opens monday.

Okay, thanks but that's not much help... the auction ends Sunday evening.

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? I CAN ASSURE YOU SPECS ARE PER DESCRIPTION. (Note: caps are his)

Your description of the T23 contains some errors and/or inconsistencies:

- T23 has an 16MB S3 video chip NOT a 32MB ATI
- T23 Ethernet is only 10/100 NOT 10/100/1000 (Gigabit Ethernet)
- Description also has "T22" in one place
- Picture of one of the laptops has "LYPC" on the screen; I believe that's another eBay seller and appears you've just borrowed the image (and probably some of the text)
- T23 only has a USB 1.1 port NOT the "Certified Hi-Speed" your USB logo appears to suggest; USB 2.0 device will operate but only at the slower 1.1 speed
- T23 shipped with two different 14.1" screens (XGA or SXGA+); your description says "XGA widescreen" but it's NOT a widescreen since it has the normal 4:3 aspect ratio.

Given those errors, I'd rather go by the TYPE number from the bottom of the system to determine exactly what it is you have.

One day after the laptop sold for $269....

thanks for bring this to out (sic) attention we need to change our description.

edit: Here's a recent offering from LYPC Warehouse which shows the same image in zoomusa's description:

http://www.kawakami-ca.com/ebay/eBay_220203126484.pdf

2nd edit: Added final communication from seller

3rd edit: Saved eBay auction pages as .PDF files on my web site

[Harryc]

It's a basic T23 that the seller is trying to hype...it's nothing special as you know Ray . Some of these 'hyped' EBay adds are very amusing ... Vista Capable....hardly. Very nice XP machine if set up right though ...

[KristianJ]

I understand... The response to your first question is just, well, bizarre. I had a similar thing happen with a question I asked of a seller of an R50e in a local classifieds a couple of days ago - emailed her to ask for the product code, giving her a sample code with 4 random letters and 3 random characters, and she gave me the serial number (which was close, I guess, being 7 characters all up).

Just goes to show how much more rewarding it is to deal with people who know their product and can identify the information that you want.

[goofyGAguy]

Notice also the positive feedback of 99.8% Just further proves what George is always saying, that eBay feedback is worthless in
determining a seller's reliability.

[rkawakami]

Yeah, I know, Harry... What got me was his second response.. that I should be "assured" that his descriptions about the specs of the system was accurate.

@KristianJ: I had a similar thing last week. eBay seller of an A31. I asked for the seven character string starting with 2652- or 2653- and got a response of "It's a 2653". I then said that there should be three more characters. He replied with:

Here...I'll go above and beyond your question haha..
TYPE 2653-EU5
S/N 78-xxxxx <--- (edited out for the benefit of the eBay winner)
10/02

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0199353713 (A31 Fix or for Parts - $22.49)

I wouldn't have minded being the recipient of that "win".

[phool@round]

Ray, I think you called them out on the first question, it was just too, too overwhelming.....

The cut and paste of Spirit-1776's ad copy with the ATI Radeon 9000 w/32M of VRAM....... and how's about that "DLINK AIRPORT EXTREME G WIRELESS CARD" and it's a "PCMCIA" tah boot!

The word "Stupid" is most probably a noun with this particular seller, it's obviously second nature..........

Um, and Ray, I'm typing this out on my $26 4U2.........


John Harvester........

[mattbiernat]

reminds me of one time i went to get an oil change and one of the mechanics told me that if i don't change my timing belt at this moment the car will break down at any time... my point is, people tell you all kinds of BS to make money.

[dsigma6]

I think it was worth the final auction price, since it includes Internet 2.

Additionally, having "wireless wifi" sure as hell beats the non-wireless kind.

[underclocker]

Somewhat amusing, but all too prevalent on eBay.

The take-away, if it doesn't feel right, don't bid on it! Some of the time you might get lucky, but most of the time you'll be disappointed with this type of seller/ad.

[rkawakami]

Unfortunately, most of my questions concerning the model type number is answered like that or is totally ignored. I have had some success in convincing a couple of eBay sellers to include this information as part of their standard description. One of them has actually gone "overboard" and has started including the serial number as well. While it does mean more competition for desired configurations, it beats having me message them for each system that I'm interested in.

[KristianJ]

Unfortunately, most of my questions concerning the model type number is answered like that or is totally ignored. I have had some success in convincing a couple of eBay sellers to include this information as part of their standard description. One of them has actually gone "overboard" and has started including the serial number as well. While it does mean more competition for desired configurations, it beats having me message them for each system that I'm interested in.

I wonder how many bidders on IBM/Lenovo laptops actually know that they can check the model type numbers in the first place to verify the details and get the extra information on LCD resolutions and the like. For all the TPs I've bought on eBay bar my T42p, I had to ask for the number because it wasn't included. Each seller hadn't listed the correct resolution in their listing as well, so my detective work was worth it. It's still slightly annoying though.

[Miller88]

Its not really related to the topic, but I really hate when people hype up laptops.

[rkawakami]

I wonder how many bidders on IBM/Lenovo laptops actually know that they can check the model type numbers... <snip>

Don't know about that. Since I'm interested only in certain configurations, I always ask for the model type. I've seen other potential buyers ask for the information, but not every seller bothers to place the questions and answers on their page so it's hard to tell. Here's some recent transactions (prices quoted are with shipping included to me in Calif.):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0021189432 ($103 stripped T23 2647-9LU)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0214320239 ($294 complete 600X 2645-9FU)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0223000866 ($224 complete T23 2647-4NU)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0198481504 ($223 complete T23 unknown model)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0222846754 ($313 complete T23 unknown model)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0194194426 ($46 parts/repair T23 2647-4U2; had easily fixed power problem)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0214153685 ($58 parts/repair T23 2647-4NU; was just missing memory)

@Miller88: It is sort of related. The problem I had with this (and other sellers) is that what they "advertise" on their auctions is not accurate. A certain amount of "hype" is fine; saying a T23 is "quick" or "fast" or "blazing" is tolerable. Saying that it's Vista-ready might be pushing it a little. Certainly, stating that the T23 has twice as much video memory as it really does, is not "hype" anymore but outright misinformation.

One of my pet peeves are the sellers who list (ad infinitum) details about the specifications of the system, usually taken directly from the IBM web site or computer reviews and say NOTHING about the condition of the system they are selling. Here's one that has apparently done a cut-and-paste from IBM.com but has said a few things about the system for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0217778250

However, in this case there's no information concerning the type of screen or if it has built-in wireless .

edit: Edited first post in this thread with the response from the eBay seller after the sale completed and added cut-and-paste eBay example.

[hkazemi]

There are options for someone who buys a laptop like that T23 listed above only to discover the information was wrong, and what they were sent is not what was advertised:

1.) you can contact the seller for a reimbursement of the difference in value, or to provide you a machine that does have all the advertised specs as a minimum

2.) you can contact eBay using their buyer protection mechanism which includes Paypal's mechanism if you paid using Paypal from your bank account. http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-buye ... steps.html

3.) you can contact your credit card company to dispute the charge and issue a chargeback to the seller for not delivering what was advertised. This is the route to take if you paid direct with your credit card, or using your credit card through Paypal.

I suggest contacting the seller first to see if they're willing to work something out, and if not, then persue options 2 or 3.

[rkawakami]

Those are only "options" if one exercises the decision to purchase the item without having all of the information at hand. I know enough about the T23s to determine that some of the information in the description is bogus. Which is why I normally send out messages like I did (asking what's the TYPE number and my attempt to point out several glaring errors). My (small) hope is that the seller would edit the description so that other bidders could see the factual information. I'd have to say that even if the seller had told me that the system was a 2647-HNU (SXGA+ w/wireless), I would NOT have bid on it simply because of the "assurance" that I had received from him as to the accuracy of the description .

I try not to get into the mode of what you suggest (asking for a refund or replacement after I've already received the item) since everybody has their opinion of what the "value" of some feature is. I also try to minimize any third-party involvement (i.e., PayPal and eBay) in resolving any problems unless all other attempts at a solution fail. If the "advertised specs" are invalid, as in the things I pointed out that the T23 doesn't have, then it's impossible for the seller to provide it. Sure, a burned buyer could petition eBay with an "item received is not as described" report, but I have to say that with this particular example it's a case of caveat emptor (buyer beware). If the buyer is knowledgeable enough to determine after the sale that the video system in the T23 is only 16MB, only has USB 1.1, and does not have Gigabit ethernet, then they should have done their homework before submitting their bid.

[hkazemi]

If the buyer is knowledgeable enough to determine after the sale that the video system in the T23 is only 16MB, only has USB 1.1, and does not have Gigabit ethernet, then they should have done their homework before submitting their bid.

I agree, it is more reasonable for the buyer to do his homework beforehand to see if the listed specs are plausible, which in this case they clearly were not (the fact that T22 was also mentioned in the listing should have been a flag even to someone less adept at verifying specs). However it is also possible for valid specs to be listed for a model series e.g. a T23 with SXGA+, but a unit with XGA sent instead. That's where the options I listed are probably most appropriately used.

[fuscob]

I think it was worth the final auction price, since it includes Internet 2.

Additionally, having "wireless wifi" sure as hell beats the non-wireless kind.

I'd pay $230 for the 1GBps Internet2 link!

I think the problem is that a lot of eBay sellers that are offering computers really don't know very much about what they are selling. They try to piece information together from quickly searching the Web and from other sellers' auctions and they end up with what you see here.